Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by StevieFan13 »

Unless you're doing it, I can transcribe this one too.
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by Live in Phoenix »

What nonsense has "actually" been number one of the '90s all this time...

OK, Loveless is good.
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by panam »

StevieFan13 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:17 pm Unless you're doing it, I can transcribe this one too.
Do it my friend. Today i have lot to do at work.
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by StevieFan13 »

150. Salt-N-Pepa: Very Necessary (1993)
149. Bratmobile: Pottymouth (1993)
148. Soundgarden: Superunknown (1994)
147. Whitney Houston: The Bodyguard (1992)
146. Boredoms: Super æ (1998)
145. Fugazi: Repeater (1990)
144. Iris DeMent: Infamous Angel (1992)
143. Aimee Mann: Whatever (1993)
142. Boyz II Men: II (1994)
141. Sparklehorse: Good Morning Spider (1998)
140. Three 6 Mafia: Mystic Stylez (1995)
139. Toni Braxton: Toni Braxton (1993)
138. American Football: American Football (1999)
137. Bone Thugs-N-Harmony: E. 1999 Eternal (1995)
136. Depeche Mode: Violator (1993)
135. Jeff Buckley: Grace (1994)
134. Gillian Welch: Revival (1996)
133. Jonathan Richman: I, Jonathan (1992)
132. Oval: 94 Diskont (1995)
131. Prefab Sprout: Jordan: The Comeback (1990)
130. Maxwell: Maxwell’s Urban Hang Suite (1996)
129. Tom Petty: Wildflowers (1994)
128. Drexciya: Neptune’s Lair (1999)
127. Sinéad O’Connor: I Do Not Want What I Haven’t Got (1990)
126. Ol’ Dirty Bastard: Return to the 36 Chambers: The Dirty Version (1995)
125. Modest Mouse: The Lonesome Crowded West (1997)
124. Tori Amos: Little Earthquakes (1992)
123. Guided by Voices: Bee Thousand (1994)
122. Roni Size / Reprazent: New Forms (1997)
121. Garbage: Garbage (1995)
120. Rage Against the Machine: Rage Against the Machine (1992)
119. Sarah McLachlan: Fumbling Towards Ecstasy (1993)
118. U2: Achtung Baby (1991)
117. The Notorious B.I.G.: Life After Death (1995)
116. Mazzy Star: So Tonight That I Might See (1993)
115. Arthur Russell: Another Thought (1994)
114. The Pharcyde: Bizarre Ride II the Pharcyde (1992)
113. The Cranberries: Everybody Else Is Doing It, So Why Can’t We? (1993)
112. Selena: Amor Prohibido (1994)
111. Green Day: Dookie (1994)
110. Gang Starr: Moment of Truth (1998)
109. Elastica: Elastica (1995)
108. Mary J. Blige: What’s the 411? (1992)
107. Smog: Knock Knock (1999)
106. Tortoise: TNT (1998)
105. Digable Planets: Blowout Comb (1994)
104. Pet Shop Boys: Behaviour (1990)
103. Air: Moon Safari (1998)
102. Wilco: Summerteeth (1999)
101. Built to Spill: Keep It Like a Secret (1999)
100. Jim O’Rourke: Eureka (1999)
99. The Flaming Lips: The Soft Bulletin (1999)
98. Smashing Pumpkins: Siamese Dream (1993)
97. A Tribe Called Quest: Midnight Marauders (1993)
96. Primal Scream: Screamadelica (1991)
95. Ice Cube: Death Certificate (1991)
94. No Doubt: Tragic Kingdom (1995)
93. Beck: Odelay (1996)
92. Autechre: Amber (1994)
91. Weezer: Weezer (Blue Album) (1994)
90. Ghostface Killah: Ironman (1996)
89. Sonny Sharrock: Ask the Ages (1991)
88. Sonic Youth: Goo (1990)
87. DJ Screw: 3 ’N The Mornin’ Part Two (1996)
86. Spiritualized: Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Floating in Space (1997)
85. Godspeed You! Black Emperor: F♯ A♯ ∞ (1997)
84. OutKast: ATLiens (1996)
83. Slint: Spiderland (1991)
82. The Chicks: Fly (1999)
81. Radiohead: The Bends (1995)
80. Bikini Kill: The C.D. Version of the First Two Records (1994)
79. DMX: It’s Dark and Hell Is Hot (1998)
78. The Magnetic Fields: 69 Love Songs (1999)
77. The Roots: Things Fall Apart (1999)
76. The KLF: Chill Out (1990)
75. Nirvana: In Utero (1993)
74. Missy Elliott: Supa Dupa Fly (1997)
73. Yo La Tengo: I Can Hear the Heart Beating as One (1997)
72. De La Soul: De La Soul Is Dead (1991)
71. Pulp: Different Class (1995)
70. Pavement: Slanted and Enchanted (1992)
69. GZA: Liquid Swords (1995)
68. Bob Dylan: Time Out of Mind (1997)
67. Beastie Boys: Check Your Head (1992)
66. Cat Power: Moon Pix (1998)
65. MF DOOM: Operation: Doomsday (1999)
64. Tricky: Maxinquaye (1995)
63. R.E.M.: Automatic for the People (1992)
62. Juvenile: 400 Degreez (1998)
61. Massive Attack: Blue Lines (1991)
60. Mariah Carey: Butterfly (1997)
59. JAY-Z: Reasonable Doubt (1994)
58. Slowdive: Souvlaki (1993)
57. Mobb Deep: The Infamous (1995)
56. Scott Walker: Tilt (1995)
55. Madonna: Ray of Light (1998)
54. Scarface: The Diary (1994)
53. Aphex Twin: Selected Ambient Works Volume II (1994)
52. Sade: Love Deluxe (1992)
51. Alanis Morissette: Jagged Little Pill (1995)
50. Elliott Smith: Elliott Smith (1995)
49. DJ Shadow: Endtroducing... (1996)
48. Fugees: The Score (1996)
47. Sleater-Kinney: Dig Me Out (1997)
46. UGK: Ridin’ Dirty (1996)
45. Destiny’s Child: The Writing’s on the Wall (1999)
44. Stereolab: Emperor Tomato Ketchup (1996)
43. Le Tigre: Le Tigre (1999)
42. TLC: CrazySexyCool (1994)
41. Raekwon: Only Built 4 Cuban Linx… (1995)
40. Nine Inch Nails: The Downward Spiral (1994)
39. 2Pac: All Eyez on Me (1996)
38. Janet Jackson: janet. (1993)
37. Fiona Apple: Tidal (1996)
36. Lil’ Kim: Hard Core (1996)
35. The Breeders: Last Splash (1993)
34. Aphex Twin: Richard D. James Album (1996)
33. Talk Talk: Laughing Stock (1991)
32. Lucinda Williams: Car Wheels on a Gravel Road (1998)
31. Neutral Milk Hotel: In the Aeroplane Over the Sea (1998) (there you go, Ron!)
30. Mos Def: Black on Both Sides (1999)
29. Pavement: Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain (1994)
28. Björk: Post (1995)
27. Public Enemy: Fear of a Black Planet (1990)
26. Boards of Canada: Music Has the Right to Children (1998)
25. Belle and Sebastian: If You’re Feeling Sinister (1996)
24. Dr. Dre: The Chronic (1992)
23. Elliott Smith: Either/Or (1997)
22. Nas: Illmatic (1994)
21. Silver Jews: American Water (1998)
20. D’Angelo: Brown Sugar (1995)
19. Fiona Apple: When the Pawn… (1999)
18. Cocteau Twins: Heaven or Las Vegas (1990)
17. Erykah Badu: Baduizm (1997)
16. PJ Harvey: Rid of Me (1993)
15. Aaliyah: One in a Million (1996)
14. The Notorious B.I.G.: Ready to Die (1994)
13. Daft Punk: Homework (1997)
12. OutKast: Aquemini (1998)
11. Portishead: Dummy (1994)
10. Nirvana: Nevermind (1991) (I KNEW it would just barely make the top ten! I just KNEW it! Never change, P4K)
9. A Tribe Called Quest: The Low End Theory (1991)
8. Hole: Live Through This (1994)
7. Janet Jackson: The Velvet Rope (1997)
6. Björk: Homogenic (1997)
5. Wu-Tang Clan: Enter The Wu-Tang (36 Chambers) (1993)
4. Liz Phair: Exile in Guyville (1993)
3. Radiohead: OK Computer (1997)
2. Lauryn Hill: The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill (1998)
1. My Bloody Valentine: Loveless (1991)
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by StevieFan13 »

No complaints about that top ten, ESPECIALLY for having Low End Theory really high and my all-time favorite album (Enter the Wu-Tang) in the top five!
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by Jackson »

Hard to be as mad about this one when they got the #1 right.

A lot of artists missing from the songs list appear here: Neutral Milk Hotel, Nas, Flaming Lips (though super low), Slint, and Primal Scream were a few I noticed.
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by StevieFan13 »

Jackson wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:24 pm Hard to be as mad about this one when they got the #1 right.

A lot of artists missing from the songs list appear here: Neutral Milk Hotel, Nas, Flaming Lips (though super low), Slint, and Primal Scream were a few I noticed.
I didn't even notice Nas wasn't on the songs list until you pointed it out, but he seems to be one of those artists whose most acclaimed album of that decade gets more shout-outs than his most acclaimed songs, save for hip-hop-specific lists (which is a shame, cuz any '90s song list worth anything ought to have one or both of "NY State of Mind" and "It Ain't Hard to Tell" in the upper reaches).
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by Live in Phoenix »

10. Nirvana: Nevermind (1991) (I KNEW it would just barely make the top ten! I just KNEW it! Never change, P4K)
:lol:
I don't even want to expend energy on stuff like, Why would anyone think such and such is #4 while Nevermind is back at #10?
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by Jackson »

StevieFan13 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:00 pm
Jackson wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:24 pm Hard to be as mad about this one when they got the #1 right.

A lot of artists missing from the songs list appear here: Neutral Milk Hotel, Nas, Flaming Lips (though super low), Slint, and Primal Scream were a few I noticed.
I didn't even notice Nas wasn't on the songs list until you pointed it out, but he seems to be one of those artists whose most acclaimed album of that decade gets more shout-outs than his most acclaimed songs, save for hip-hop-specific lists (which is a shame, cuz any '90s song list worth anything ought to have one or both of "NY State of Mind" and "It Ain't Hard to Tell" in the upper reaches).
It Ain't Hard to Tell was #28 on their previous list. It's just them being dumb :angry-banghead:
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by VacantJoy »

The previous album list was 100 ? And the song list 200 right ?
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by Nassim »

I think it would work better as an unranked list. As a selection of the 150 best albums of the decade it's pretty great but once it's ranked I like it less and I think it shows it's biases
Same as in the song list it pushes a bit too far the bias in favor of female and black artists. I always found the Miseducation of Lauryn Hill overrated so I'll leave that one aside, but is the Velvet Rope usually a bit undervalued? Sure ! Is it top 10 of the decade? No! Live Through This is a great album, but if there is one album it can't be favorably compared with it's Nevermind.

Things I'm happy with :
The love for Elliott Smith, and the self titled ranking higher than XO
The love for Fiona Apple (not sure it needed 2 top 50 but both albums deserve inclusion)
Enter the Wu Tang at #5
Grace and Achtung Baby being low on the list
Crooked Rain Crooked Rain as the best Pavement album
Smog and Sparklehorse making the list

Things I don't like :
Loveless... I mean I get it's great, just never enjoyed it... Don't try to reinvent the wheel and just put OK Computer at the top spot
2 Janet albums in the top 50... In an 80s list, why not, in the 90s ? Nope !
No Built to Spill and Modest Mouse in the top 100 and no Perfect From Now On
The low rankings of Spiderland and Siamese Dreams
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by fionalive »

Nassim wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:23 pm No! Live Through This is a great album, but if there is one album it can't be favorably compared with it's Nevermind.
To each his own of course, but I'd much rather listen to Live Through This (and do). I think it's a more even listen, and also think it's a more clear personal statement.
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by bootsy »

Pitchfork could have really made a bold statement and put Cooleyhighharmony instead of II for Boyz II Men. I guess they could have included both too. I've always preferred Cooleyhigh over II.
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by VacantJoy »

I wanted to say that everything is subjective , I used to rant on lists when I first joined the forum but I have stopped doing it , the reason is that if we get the same and same lists each time it wouldn’t be meaningful to add more new lists in the site because we would get the same outcome , plus each critic has his/her own subjective view … I don’t know why some of the old forumites haven’t realized this yet so I find the rant completely meaningless , btw I liked the diversity of this list
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by panam »

Vacantjoy wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:01 am I wanted to say that everything is subjective , I used to rant on lists when I first joined the forum but I have stopped doing it , the reason is that if we get the same and same lists each time it wouldn’t be meaningful to add more new lists in the site because we would get the same outcome , plus each critic has his/her own subjective view … I don’t know why some of the old forumites haven’t realized this yet so I find the rant completely meaningless , btw I liked the diversity of this list
Yeah. I mean we all have our preferences and that's ok but sometimes we can go too far with that.
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by sonofsamiam »

No Blur or Oasis seems like a statement, eh?

Also shocked by lack of Agaetis Byrjun, but maybe pf considers it a 2000s album…
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by Nassim »

sonofsamiam wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:33 am Also shocked by lack of Agaetis Byrjun, but maybe pf considers it a 2000s album…
Yes it's #8 in their latest 2000s list
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by Nassim »

Vacantjoy wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:01 am I wanted to say that everything is subjective , I used to rant on lists when I first joined the forum but I have stopped doing it , the reason is that if we get the same and same lists each time it wouldn’t be meaningful to add more new lists in the site because we would get the same outcome , plus each critic has his/her own subjective view … I don’t know why some of the old forumites haven’t realized this yet so I find the rant completely meaningless , btw I liked the diversity of this list
I think it's fair to comment on lists, especially when they have fairly clear orientations.
No need to get too worked up obviously but having an opinion on a list is different from ranting.
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by VacantJoy »

Nassim wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:04 pm
Vacantjoy wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:01 am I wanted to say that everything is subjective , I used to rant on lists when I first joined the forum but I have stopped doing it , the reason is that if we get the same and same lists each time it wouldn’t be meaningful to add more new lists in the site because we would get the same outcome , plus each critic has his/her own subjective view … I don’t know why some of the old forumites haven’t realized this yet so I find the rant completely meaningless , btw I liked the diversity of this list
I think it's fair to comment on lists, especially when they have fairly clear orientations.
No need to get too worked up obviously but having an opinion on a list is different from ranting.
yes and yes
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by fionalive »

bootsy wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:00 am Pitchfork could have really made a bold statement and put Cooleyhighharmony instead of II for Boyz II Men. I guess they could have included both too. I've always preferred Cooleyhigh over II.
Yeah Cooley is definitely the better album.
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by jdizzle83 »

I think it's cool to shake up the canon a bit but I also think one can do it in more subtle ways. Like pushing Siamese Dream or the Soft Bulletin so far back just seems like they're trying to be making a statement (maybe I'm being too much of a conspiracy theorist here). I like when they sprinkle it in, like Janet Jackson's The Velvet Rope getting into the top 10, or Aaliyah in the 20. You can still prop up stuff that didn't always get its due without losing other records that have continued relevance.
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by StevieFan13 »

jdizzle83 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:02 pm I think it's cool to shake up the canon a bit but I also think one can do it in more subtle ways. Like pushing Siamese Dream or the Soft Bulletin so far back just seems like they're trying to be making a statement (maybe I'm being too much of a conspiracy theorist here). I like when they sprinkle it in, like Janet Jackson's The Velvet Rope getting into the top 10, or Aaliyah in the 20. You can still prop up stuff that didn't always get its due without losing other records that have continued relevance.
Yeah, it's been both awkward and encouraging to see publications like Rolling Stone and Pitchfork, who both have huge stereotypes associated with them (boomers and indie snobs, respectively), putting out lists that radically differ from what we'd expect from them in the past (OK, maybe not "radically," but noticeably different).

I re-ranked the 2010 RS 500 Songs list over a few days (still haven't heard every song on the new list, but I plan to rectify that sooner rather than later) and I just got so BORED after a while. Quite frankly, besides the top 100 or so, everything seemed very arbitrarily picked and placed. Yes, I know that's basically every "best of all time" list ever, but I just can't understand an argument for including songs like "Tonight's the Night" or "Sloop John B" over any other randomly-chosen oldies, in those particular spots they occupy. And they never are quite clear about what constitutes "greatest" vs. "most important" vs. both, because if the list really posited itself as being both, it wouldn't include "Moment of Surrender" over the likes of "Nothing Compares 2 U," "Losing My Religion," "Folsom Prison Blues," "I'm Waiting for the Man," or "Bohemian Rhapsody" (which immediately precede it, plus a few others that are probably more important than it), and right behind "Rock Around the Clock," the song which basically launched rock and roll into the stratosphere but can't finish higher than #159. The new list doesn't make a ton MORE sense, but it's a lot more FUN. It's gone from only having three songs released after the '80s in its top 100 to having multiple songs from the '00s in its TOP TEN. I don't care how much I agree with it, all I know is I respect it, no matter if the intent was to genuinely update their tastes or just pander to a younger, more diverse audience. The first list is pretty bog-standard stuff, which is helpful if (as I did when I was just getting into music) you just want a solid crash course on modern rock and pop. But the update feels like not just the best stuff from the previous list (minus MGMT, harrumph), but all the artists they inspired, and the artists who inspired THEM to make music in the first place, and all the external forces influencing those creators at the same time. It's insane, but it feels more expansive.

No all-time list is going to be perfect (and speaking of, what do you suppose is keeping Pitchfork from biting the bullet and doing all-time songs/albums lists? They had that book, sure, but they're one of the only major music publications I can think of that's never done a broad all-time songs/albums list), but I'm glad they're changing as the audience keeps changing.
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

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Pitchfork (USA) - The Pitchfork 500 (2008) they had an all time list stevie
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by VacantJoy »

i am wondering if NME will update the 500 albums/songs list
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by BleuPanda »

StevieFan13 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:29 pm
No all-time list is going to be perfect (and speaking of, what do you suppose is keeping Pitchfork from biting the bullet and doing all-time songs/albums lists? They had that book, sure, but they're one of the only major music publications I can think of that's never done a broad all-time songs/albums list), but I'm glad they're changing as the audience keeps changing.

Has the Pitchfork audience changed?

And your use of terms like 'indie snobs' is incredibly condescending. I don't understand your notion that the artistic world would be a better place if we only celebrated the most popular acts. The whole point of music criticism should be to consider the artistic merits of a work regardless of the commercial popularity of a work. And, like any other form of art criticism, it is important to view these ideas through various lenses - Pitchfork used to be a reliable view into lesser known acts, many of which grew into bigger bands due to being championed by these apparent 'indie snobs.' If every major critic simply becomes a reflection instead of a gateway, new bands exploring new sounds will lose their best chance of actually gaining attention at the expense of people who already have attention. I don't see how anyone could possibly see this as worth celebrating.
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by StevieFan13 »

BleuPanda wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:21 pm
StevieFan13 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:29 pm
No all-time list is going to be perfect (and speaking of, what do you suppose is keeping Pitchfork from biting the bullet and doing all-time songs/albums lists? They had that book, sure, but they're one of the only major music publications I can think of that's never done a broad all-time songs/albums list), but I'm glad they're changing as the audience keeps changing.

Has the Pitchfork audience changed?

And your use of terms like 'indie snobs' is incredibly condescending. I don't understand your notion that the artistic world would be a better place if we only celebrated the most popular acts. The whole point of music criticism should be to consider the artistic merits of a work regardless of the commercial popularity of a work. And, like any other form of art criticism, it is important to view these ideas through various lenses - Pitchfork used to be a reliable view into lesser known acts, many of which grew into bigger bands due to being championed by these apparent 'indie snobs.' If every major critic simply becomes a reflection instead of a gateway, new bands exploring new sounds will lose their best chance of actually gaining attention at the expense of people who already have attention. I don't see how anyone could possibly see this as worth celebrating.
I was using “indie snobs” as a general stereotype for how Pitchfork’s audience is viewed. Didn’t say that’s my opinion, but if I offended, I apologize.
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by StevieFan13 »

You also completely misread what I was trying to say but I don’t think any of this is worth getting worked up about. I don’t negate the importance of a website like Pitchfork in helping folks like me get into music. I also know it was the influence of websites like Pitchfork and how they framed their brand of passion for music that contributed to me being a closed-off snob for a long time. If they had shared this list instead of that one back in 2015 or so when I started looking them up, I honestly would’ve been a more open-minded and happier listener. But that’s just my experience. Music should be for everyone, and I’m just as happy to see Pitchfork praise Mariah Carey as I am to see “Running Up That Hill” get to the top five of the Hot 100.
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by VacantJoy »

Pitchfork (USA) - The Top 500 Tracks of the 2000s (2009) and songs , ops i didnt see 2000s
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by andyd1010 »

Vacantjoy wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:13 pm Pitchfork (USA) - The Pitchfork 500 (2008) they had an all time list stevie
That only covered a 30-year span.
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by jdizzle83 »

StevieFan13 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:29 pm
jdizzle83 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:02 pm I think it's cool to shake up the canon a bit but I also think one can do it in more subtle ways. Like pushing Siamese Dream or the Soft Bulletin so far back just seems like they're trying to be making a statement (maybe I'm being too much of a conspiracy theorist here). I like when they sprinkle it in, like Janet Jackson's The Velvet Rope getting into the top 10, or Aaliyah in the 20. You can still prop up stuff that didn't always get its due without losing other records that have continued relevance.
Yeah, it's been both awkward and encouraging to see publications like Rolling Stone and Pitchfork, who both have huge stereotypes associated with them (boomers and indie snobs, respectively), putting out lists that radically differ from what we'd expect from them in the past (OK, maybe not "radically," but noticeably different).

I re-ranked the 2010 RS 500 Songs list over a few days (still haven't heard every song on the new list, but I plan to rectify that sooner rather than later) and I just got so BORED after a while. Quite frankly, besides the top 100 or so, everything seemed very arbitrarily picked and placed. Yes, I know that's basically every "best of all time" list ever, but I just can't understand an argument for including songs like "Tonight's the Night" or "Sloop John B" over any other randomly-chosen oldies, in those particular spots they occupy. And they never are quite clear about what constitutes "greatest" vs. "most important" vs. both, because if the list really posited itself as being both, it wouldn't include "Moment of Surrender" over the likes of "Nothing Compares 2 U," "Losing My Religion," "Folsom Prison Blues," "I'm Waiting for the Man," or "Bohemian Rhapsody" (which immediately precede it, plus a few others that are probably more important than it), and right behind "Rock Around the Clock," the song which basically launched rock and roll into the stratosphere but can't finish higher than #159. The new list doesn't make a ton MORE sense, but it's a lot more FUN. It's gone from only having three songs released after the '80s in its top 100 to having multiple songs from the '00s in its TOP TEN. I don't care how much I agree with it, all I know is I respect it, no matter if the intent was to genuinely update their tastes or just pander to a younger, more diverse audience. The first list is pretty bog-standard stuff, which is helpful if (as I did when I was just getting into music) you just want a solid crash course on modern rock and pop. But the update feels like not just the best stuff from the previous list (minus MGMT, harrumph), but all the artists they inspired, and the artists who inspired THEM to make music in the first place, and all the external forces influencing those creators at the same time. It's insane, but it feels more expansive.

No all-time list is going to be perfect (and speaking of, what do you suppose is keeping Pitchfork from biting the bullet and doing all-time songs/albums lists? They had that book, sure, but they're one of the only major music publications I can think of that's never done a broad all-time songs/albums list), but I'm glad they're changing as the audience keeps changing.
Well said! I agree. It’s ultimately good and more exciting, maybe a little awkward sometimes.

By the way I think the RS lists did a bit of a better job of giving everything its due. Ultimately no list is “perfect” like you said but I thought it would be a very good place for beginners to start their music journey and have a wide education as far as how things are evaluated and considered in “the canon” in the early 2020s (it missed a lot of indie but still - it overall did a solid job).
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by bootsy »

StevieFan13 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:38 pm I was using “indie snobs” as a general stereotype for how Pitchfork’s audience is viewed. Didn’t say that’s my opinion, but if I offended, I apologize.
Yeah I don't think Stevie meant anything bad using this term. As he said, I took it as what some people think of Pitchfork. Every time I see a less than stellar review of an album that is getting good reviews everywhere else I see people use a phrase like 'they are a bunch of indie snobs anyway' to describe Pitchfork.
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by Chris K. »

I'm not at all surprised -- P4K and I seem to be on different paths these days -- but this isn't my favorite list. That said, I do love that When the Pawn... is in the top 20 (as well as Lauryn Hill; I always thought excluding her from the 2003 list was criminal).

My main qualm with the list is how they took nearly every rock album in the AM top 30 or so of the 90's and shoved them down at the bottom of the list (or in the case of Oasis, Blur and Pearl Jam, omitted them completely). Not surprising, but since I love most those albums it was disappointing.

What I *was* genuinely surprised about was MBV back at #1. I thought for sure they would take Neutral Milk Hotel-esque hit this time around (much like Isn't Anything did on their 80's list). Its universal acclaim and high placements on sites like Best Ever Albums and Rate Your Music is a mystery to me. I really like it personally (although not as much as I used to), but roughly 80% of the people I have introduced it to over the years were either ambivalent to it or actively disliked it. That said, most people I know who do like it, love it.
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by GabeBr »

The Velvet Rope in the top 10 is well deserved, this album is one of the pioneers of alternative R&B, several artists have already mentioned this record with an influence on their works, I honestly don't see Frank Ocean's records exist without TVR, for example, an album with a timeless sound that sounds more recent today than it did at the time of its release, it touches on a number of important and debated topics to this day.
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by VacantJoy »

the velvet rope isnt alternative rnb but it helped with the stylistic origin to the genre
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by Nassim »

The high ranking of Black on Both Sides is also noteworthy, it seems it had fallen out of style recently (pretty much every list including it are over 10 year old). I felt it had become that rap album that for some reason white people in their 40s who usually don't listen to much hip-hop really like !
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by Matski »

It is good to see Black on Both Sides but it's also weird that Black Star is nowhere to be seen. I would have thought that anyone voting for one would likely vote for the other too. Maybe the staff were too burned by No Fear of Time and the way that it was released, or maybe Talib has been stirring up some controversey that passed by me. Who knows...

EDIT: Yup, just reading up on the accusations Talib received from both Res and Mara Moody. Either would explain his exclusion.
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by fionalive »

I think it's also worth discussing how the specific lists in question were compiled. For instance, the more recent Rolling Stone lists were done by compiling lists sent in by artists, journalists, etc. There is no 'agenda' there in that so many people contributed that it's just how things shook out. For these new Pitchfork lists, it is based on their staff so in theory there could be more of an intention with it. Along with that, the staff is likely more diverse (i.e. more women and nonwhites) than in the past which is of course going to shape the result. Their process for doing the lists was explained here:
https://pitchfork.com/news/introducing- ... the-1990s/
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by Chris K. »

Just for fun, readers' poll:

100. Alice In Chains -Dirt
99. Lucinda Williams -Car Wheels On A Gravel Road
98. Wilco -Being There
97. Stereolab -Emperor Tomato Ketchup
96. Stereolab -Dots And Loops
95. Dismemberment Plan -Emergency & I
94. Sonic Youth -Dirty
93. Bob Dylan -Time Out Of Mind
92. Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds -The Boatman'S Call
91. Pixies -Bossanova
90. Aphex Twin -Selected Ambient Works Volume Ii
89. Erykah Badu -Baduizm
88. Elliott Smith -Xo
87. Tricky -Maxinquaye
86. OutKast -Atliens
85. Fugees -The Score
84. Mazzy Star -So Tonight That I Might See
83. Aphex Twin -Richard D. James Album
82. Janet Jackson -The Velvet Rope
81. GZA -Liquid Swords
80. Public Enemy -Fear Of A Black Planet
79. Sleater-Kinney -Dig Me Out
78. Pavement -Wowee Zowee
77. The Breeders -Last Splash
76. Godspeed You! Black Emperor -F# A# Infinity
75. Primal Scream -Screamadelica
74. Beastie Boys -Check Your Head
73. Silver Jews -American Water
72. Guided by Voices -Bee Thousand
71. Massive Attack -Blue Lines
70. Fiona Apple -Tidal
69. Built to Spill -Keep It Like A Secret
68. Sonic Youth -Goo
67. Built to Spill -Perfect From Now On
66. PJ Harvey -To Bring You My Love
65. The Magnetic Fields -69 Love Songs
64. Sigur Rós -Ágætis Byrjun
63. Björk -Debut
62. Oasis -Definitely Maybe
61. Hole -Live Through This
60. Wilco -Summerteeth
59. Talk Talk -Laughing Stock
58. Soundgarden -Superunknown
57. A Tribe Called Quest -Midnight Marauders
56. PJ Harvey -Rid Of Me
55. Beastie Boys -Ill Communication
54. Pearl Jam -Ten
53. Air -Moon Safari
52. Madonna -Ray Of Light
51. Nirvana -Mtv Unplugged In New York
50. Depeche Mode -Violator
49. Dr. Dre -The Chronic
48. Blur -Parklife
47. Weezer -Pinkerton
46. Spiritualized -Ladies And Gentlemen We Are Floating In Space
45. Fiona Apple -When The Pawn...
44. Green Day -Dookie
43. Liz Phair -Exile In Guyville
42. Daft Punk -Homework
41. Aphex Twin -Selected Ambient Works 85-92
40. Slint -Spiderland
39. Yo La Tengo -I Can Hear The Heart Beating As One
38. Alanis Morissette -Jagged Little Pill
37. Slowdive -Souvlaki
36. Rage Against The Machine -Rage Against The Machine
35. U2 -Achtung Baby
34. The Notorious B.I.G. -Ready To Die
33. Pulp -Different Class
32. Boards of Canada -Music Has The Right To Children
31. Jeff Buckley -Grace
30. Modest Mouse -The Lonesome Crowded West
29. Elliott Smith -Either/Or
28. Oasis -(What'S The Story) Morning Glory?
27. Nine Inch Nails -The Downward Spiral
26. Belle and Sebastian -If You'Re Feeling Sinister
25. Outkast -Aquemini
24. The Flaming Lips -The Soft Bulletin
23. Pavement -Slanted And Enchanted
22. Beck -Odelay
21. DJ Shadow -Endtroducing...
20. Smashing Pumpkins -Mellon Collie And The Infinite Sadness
19. Massive Attack -Mezzanine
18. Cocteau Twins -Heaven Or Las Vegas
17. Björk -Post
16. Weezer -Weezer [Blue Album]
15. Lauryn Hill -The Miseducation Of Lauryn Hill
14. Pavement -Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain
13. Nas -Illmatic
12. R.E.M. -Automatic For The People
11. Smashing Pumpkins -Siamese Dream
10. Nirvana -In Utero
9. A Tribe Called Quest -The Low End Theory
8. Wu-Tang Clan -Enter The Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)
7. Björk -Homogenic
6. Radiohead -The Bends
5. Portishead -Dummy
4. Neutral Milk Hotel -In The Aeroplane Over The Sea
3. Nirvana -Nevermind
2. My Bloody Valentine -Loveless
1. Radiohead -Ok Computer
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by panam »

Chris K. wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 9:10 pm Just for fun, readers' poll:

(..)
you got the songs list?
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by Chris K. »

I don't have time to transcribe but it's here

https://pitchfork.com/features/interact ... l-results/
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by hectorthebat »

Chris K. wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 9:10 pm Just for fun, readers' poll:
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by andyd1010 »

I much prefer the readers' songs poll results to the official Pitchfork list, and I'd say that's been the case every time they've released both over the last decade.
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by Chris K. »

andyd1010 wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 5:17 pm I much prefer the readers' songs poll results to the official Pitchfork list, and I'd say that's been the case every time they've released both over the last decade.
Same here and same for the readers' albums poll results. My preference towards the readers' poll seems to grow with each passing year.
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Re: Pitchfork best 150 albums of the 90s (version 2022)

Post by VacantJoy »

this should be best 200 instead of 150
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