Pitchfork’s 25th - 200 most important artists of the past 25 years

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Pitchfork’s 25th - 200 most important artists of the past 25 years

Post by Nassim »

https://pitchfork.com/features/lists-an ... t-artists/

The Icons

Aaliyah
Animal Collective
Aphex Twin
Arcade Fire
Bad Bunny
Beyoncé
Björk
Bon Iver
Burial
D’Angelo
Daft Punk
Destroyer
DJ Rashad
Drake
Earl Sweatshirt
Erykah Badu
Fiona Apple
Flying Lotus
Frank Ocean
Future
Grimes
J Dilla
JAY-Z
Joanna Newsom
Kamasi Washington
Kanye West
Karin Dreijer (The Knife / Fever Ray)
Kathleen Hanna (Bikini Kill/Le Tigre/The Julie Ruin)
Kendrick Lamar
Lana Del Rey
LCD Soundsystem
Lil Wayne
MF DOOM
Missy Elliott
Nicki Minaj
OutKast
Radiohead
Rihanna
Robyn
Sleater-Kinney
Solange
SOPHIE
The Strokes
Sufjan Stevens
Tame Impala
Taylor Swift
Tyler, the Creator
Vampire Weekend
The White Stripes
Wilco

The Essentials

50 Cent
The 1975
A$AP Rocky
Air
Amy Winehouse
Angel Olsen
ANOHNI
Arca
Arctic Monkeys
Ariana Grande
The Avalanches
Beach House
Belle and Sebastian
Ben Gibbard (Death Cab for Cutie, The Postal Service)
Big Thief
Bill Callahan (Smog)
Billie Eilish
Boards of Canada
Boredoms
Brittany Howard (Alabama Shakes)
Broadcast
Broken Social Scene
Burna Boy
Cam’ron
Cardi B
Caribou
Carly Rae Jepsen
Caroline Polachek (Chairlift)
Cat Power
Chance the Rapper
Charli XCX
Chief Keef
Christine and the Queens
Clams Casino
Conor Oberst (Bright Eyes)
Damon Albarn (Blur, Gorillaz, the Good, the Bad, & the Queen)
Danny Brown
David Berman (Silver Jews, Purple Mountains)
Deafheaven
Death Grips
Deerhunter
Dev Hynes (Blood Orange)
Diplo
Dizzee Rascal
DJ Koze
DJ Shadow
DMX
Drexciya
Elliott Smith
Father John Misty
Fennesz
FKA twigs
The Flaming Lips
Fleet Foxes
Four Tet
Freddie Gibbs
Ghostface Killah
Girl Talk
Girls
Godspeed You! Black Emperor
Grizzly Bear
Grouper
Gucci Mane
Haim
The Hold Steady
Interpol
Jai Paul
James Blake
Janelle Monáe
Jay Reatard
Jazmine Sullivan
Jeezy
Jenny Lewis (Rilo Kiley)
Jeremih
Jessie Ware
Johnny Jewel (Chromatics, Glass Candy)
Kacey Musgraves
King Krule
Lady Gaga
Lauryn Hill
Lil B
Lil’ Kim
Lil Peep
Lil Uzi Vert
Lorde
Los Campesinos!
Low
M.I.A.
M83
Mac DeMarco
Mac Miller
Madlib
Magnetic Fields
Maxwell
Megan Thee Stallion
Migos
Mike WiLL Made-It
Mitski
Moodymann
Moses Sumney
The National
Neko Case
Neutral Milk Hotel
The New Pornographers
Nick Cave
Nicolás Jaar
Noname
Oneohtrix Point Never
Paramore
Perfume Genius
Pharrell
Phil Elverum (The Microphones, Mount Eerie)
Phoebe Bridgers
Phoenix
Playboi Carti
Pop Smoke
Prodigy (Mobb Deep)
Pusha-T (Clipse)
Questlove (The Roots)
The Rapture
Rosalía
Run the Jewels
Sean Combs (Puff Daddy, P. Diddy, Diddy, Dirty Money)
Sharon Van Etten
Sigur Rós
Sky Ferreira
Spoon
St. Vincent
Stereolab
SZA
Theo Parrish
Thundercat
Timbaland
Toro y Moi
Tortoise
Trent Reznor (Nine Inch Nails)
TV on the Radio
UGK
Usher
Vince Staples
Vivian Girls
The Walkmen
The War on Drugs
Waxahatchee
The Weeknd
The xx
Yasiin Bey (Mos Def)
Yeah Yeah Yeahs
Yo La Tengo
Young Thug

I think the Icons pick mostly make sense, though I'm surprised to see Destroyer up there (swap him with The Flaming Lips and it’d be much closer to what I’d have expected). Not sure DJ Rashad and Solange should be that high either, but that's not that surprising for Pitchfork. I'd also replace Earl Sweatshirt by either Danny Brown or Vince Staples who I think are the most interesting hip-hop artists of the decade bar Kendrick and Kanye, or by the seminal MF DOOM.
I don't think Nicki Minaj should be that high either on pure musical merits, but her impact on culture probably helped the rise of Cardi B, Megan Thee Stallion and other recent female rap artists so I guess it makes sense to see her as an "icon".
Did Kathleen Hanna have her more important output in the past 25 years ? I think Bikini Kill is more important than Julie Ruin or Le Tigre so I’d say no, but it’s kind of nice to see her up there so I’ll give it a pass.
Aphex Twin also had its most important releases before 1997, so I think he could have been left out for the same reason they justify they didn’t include Pavement but obviously the guy is an icon.
Very happy to see Sleater-Kinney up there, I mean they should be considered obvious pick, but somehow they still aren’t 100% for some critics. Same goes for SOPHIE and Karin Dreijer.
I was kinda worried they would start to slowly distant themselves from Animal Collective, glad they didn’t.
Might be personal bias, but I think Elliott Smith should be up there.

I'm a bit more worried/disappointed by the essentials. I mean there are probably 120 to 130 that are pretty undisputable, but I don't buy the recent reappraisal of DMX (and apparently Lil Kim) and don't think Playboi Carti, Pop Smoke or Jeezy have the resume to make such a short list (well, I don't think noname does yet but I'm more confident she will relatively soon)
On the "who's missing" side, I guess not including Eminem is a conscious statement, but I don't agree with it. I'm more worried to see Modest Mouse missing, they had The Moon and Antarctica at #6 of the 2000s and The Lonesome Crowded West pretty high in their 90s too... that could be a further sign of Pitchfork drifting further away from white man indie, but that does not fit with Destroyer in the icons and bands like Girls, Broken Social Scene or the New Pornographers in the essentials.
I'd put Queens of the Stone Age in there obviously (in the icons even) but I can't say I'm stunned they are not in there, but I wouldn't mind having a couple metal bands on top of Deafheaven... Sunn O))), Boris, Isis or Mastodon would have been deserving, especially the latter that used to be championed quite a lot by Pitchfork.



They also rescored a few albums (though they say it's not "canon") https://pitchfork.com/features/lists-an ... -rescored/
Some corrects obvious oversights : Stories from the Cities, Stories from the Sea getting only 5.4, Sky Blue Sky getting only 5.2, and they even bumped Discovery to 10 which I don't agree with but totally makes sense. I expected Andrew HK's I Get Wet in there too but nope.
They moved Room on Fire 0.1 point ahead of Is This It ? which is, just, no...
Lana Del Rey's Born to Die getting up to 7.8 makes sense, the original grade was just silly.
They further apologize for giving Liz Phair's self titled album a 0 on release (though they still don't rate it very high)
I'm also glad if Regina Spektor can get a bit of reappraisal, her almost complete absence in AM always seemed odd to me so if she can get the same course correction (to a lesser extent) that Fiona Apple or Lana Del Rey got recently that would be nice.

More interesting I think are the albums they downgraded, Foxygen's We Are the 21st Century Ambassadors... moving from 8.4 to 6.3 is fine for me, though I'd apply their reasoning to the 1975's albums too, but only time will tell.
They moved Sir Luscious Leftfoot below the 8.0 threshold, which I don't agree with but that seems in line with its global ranking in the various EOD lists.
I'm much more excited by Random Access Memory going down to 6.8, I think that albums mostly sucks so I'm fully on board for critics stopping to put it on any lists going further...
Turn on the Bright Lights getting down to 7.0 is a big No for me too. Has it lost a tiny bit of its impact ? Maybe, it's an album of its time so it doesn't hit totally as much today, but it's still fantastic.
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Re: Pitchfork’s 25th - 200 most important artists of the past 25 years

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Maybe they’re mad at Interpol for all the legions of post punk bands coming out the woodwork lately and they blame them for the revival. A lot of those bands were actually scoring really well on Metacritic in particular and looking like they were gonna dominant the year ends list but there’s huge shift lately I’m noticing to the British urban scene so I’m excited to see who’s gonna come out on top. Luckily we don’t have to much longer to wait. The Brits will dominate either way regardless.
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Re: Pitchfork’s 25th - 200 most important artists of the past 25 years

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We need more trap snobs in this forum.
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Re: Pitchfork’s 25th - 200 most important artists of the past 25 years

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The re-rating feature was fun, but it also begs the question: does this mean they stand by every other rating they've released except for those 19?? I like the Interpol downgrade, though I'm sure many on here won't. Random Access Memories was fine where it was.

I find the artist list kind of pointless. 200 is way too many artists for a 25 year period to have any sort of meaning without further ranking / categorization. Also them pretending they like Bad Bunny and Lil Wayne over like, Beach House and Spoon isn't convincing anyone.
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Re: Pitchfork’s 25th - 200 most important artists of the past 25 years

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Honestly, this is a pretty solid list not going to lie. Just wish Modest Mouse made the cut
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Re: Pitchfork’s 25th - 200 most important artists of the past 25 years

Post by Chris K. »

I don't understand how Los Campesinos! makes the list and PJ Harvey doesn't.
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Re: Pitchfork’s 25th - 200 most important artists of the past 25 years

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Jackson wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:48 pm The re-rating feature was fun, but it also begs the question: does this mean they stand by every other rating they've released except for those 19??
No they don't, for sure, a bunch of their top 200 albums of the 2010s didn't get best new music on release, they would revise those. ANTI- is their 12th best album of the decade and it got a 7.7
I also don't think they'd still give Source Tags & Codes a 10.
Jackson wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:48 pm 200 is way too many artists for a 25 year period to have any sort of meaning without further ranking / categorization. Also them pretending they like Bad Bunny and Lil Wayne over like, Beach House and Spoon isn't convincing anyone.
I'm pretty sure they do, the Pitchfork staff has changed a lot since 2010. Plus they define icon as "the 50 artists whose influence has changed music forever" and I'd say that Beach House is a very idiosyncratic band that kind of live in its own bubble (I might underestimate their influence, but I don't hear it that much to be honest) and Spoon is a band celebrated for its consistency but that didn't really break the mold or move things around. On the other hand Bad Bunny is at the forefront of reggaeton which while I really don't enjoy it has been a major phenomenon on the past few years and I think Lil Wayne partly redefined how strange a rap star could be.
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Re: Pitchfork’s 25th - 200 most important artists of the past 25 years

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Chris K. wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:01 pm I don't understand how Los Campesinos! makes the list and PJ Harvey doesn't.
Los Campesinos are awesome, leave them alone ;)

I would think they considered that PJ would be at the "icons" level but had her most impactful releases before 97 (it's an unclear delimitation for sure, I'd say Aphex Twin had his most important releases before 97 too).
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Re: Pitchfork’s 25th - 200 most important artists of the past 25 years

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Eminem's lack of inclusion is as close to "objectively wrong" as a list like this can get, regardless of your thoughts on his music.
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Re: Pitchfork’s 25th - 200 most important artists of the past 25 years

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Nick wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:20 pm Eminem's lack of inclusion is as close to "objectively wrong" as a list like this can get, regardless of your thoughts on his music.
Though I like the list I have to agree. Eminem is far from the best rapper of the past 25 years but is by far one of the top 3 more influential alongside Kanye and Kendrick
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Re: Pitchfork’s 25th - 200 most important artists of the past 25 years

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Nick wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:20 pm Eminem's lack of inclusion is as close to "objectively wrong" as a list like this can get, regardless of your thoughts on his music.
Linkin Park too. They were by far the biggest Rock band of the 2000s and early 2010s. Their records weren't universally acclaimed but in terms of importance, influence and popularity Linkin Park is definitely one of the top 200 artists of the past 25 years.
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Re: Pitchfork’s 25th - 200 most important artists of the past 25 years

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Nassim wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:04 pm
Jackson wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:48 pm 200 is way too many artists for a 25 year period to have any sort of meaning without further ranking / categorization. Also them pretending they like Bad Bunny and Lil Wayne over like, Beach House and Spoon isn't convincing anyone.
I'm pretty sure they do, the Pitchfork staff has changed a lot since 2010. Plus they define icon as "the 50 artists whose influence has changed music forever" and I'd say that Beach House is a very idiosyncratic band that kind of live in its own bubble (I might underestimate their influence, but I don't hear it that much to be honest) and Spoon is a band celebrated for its consistency but that didn't really break the mold or move things around. On the other hand Bad Bunny is at the forefront of reggaeton which while I really don't enjoy it has been a major phenomenon on the past few years and I think Lil Wayne partly redefined how strange a rap star could be.
I guess what I'm saying is that in making this list celebrating its 25th anniversary, Pitchfork continued their trend of shifting away from artists they celebrated over most of those 25 years to other, mostly more mainstream artists that they have embraced only recently. There is always an argument that the canon should evolve over time, and being more inclusive of other styles beyond indie rock is good, but if Pitchfork isn't at its core an indie centric publication, then what are they? They didn't get their core readership and reputation from pushing artists that everyone already knows like Lil Wayne and Taylor Swift. 10 years ago they were a trendsetter that other critics followed, now they just seem like they are along with the crowd and ultimately not too different from something like Rolling Stone, which early Pitchfork writers probably would have hated.

(By the way, no disagreement from me on Bad Bunny and Lil Wayne actually being more influential than Beach House and Spoon.)
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Re: Pitchfork’s 25th - 200 most important artists of the past 25 years

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Jackson wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:09 pm
Nassim wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:04 pm
Jackson wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:48 pm 200 is way too many artists for a 25 year period to have any sort of meaning without further ranking / categorization. Also them pretending they like Bad Bunny and Lil Wayne over like, Beach House and Spoon isn't convincing anyone.
I'm pretty sure they do, the Pitchfork staff has changed a lot since 2010. Plus they define icon as "the 50 artists whose influence has changed music forever" and I'd say that Beach House is a very idiosyncratic band that kind of live in its own bubble (I might underestimate their influence, but I don't hear it that much to be honest) and Spoon is a band celebrated for its consistency but that didn't really break the mold or move things around. On the other hand Bad Bunny is at the forefront of reggaeton which while I really don't enjoy it has been a major phenomenon on the past few years and I think Lil Wayne partly redefined how strange a rap star could be.
I guess what I'm saying is that in making this list celebrating its 25th anniversary, Pitchfork continued their trend of shifting away from artists they celebrated over most of those 25 years to other, mostly more mainstream artists that they have embraced only recently. There is always an argument that the canon should evolve over time, and being more inclusive of other styles beyond indie rock is good, but if Pitchfork isn't at its core an indie centric publication, then what are they? They didn't get their core readership and reputation from pushing artists that everyone already knows like Lil Wayne and Taylor Swift. 10 years ago they were a trendsetter that other critics followed, now they just seem like they are along with the crowd and ultimately not too different from something like Rolling Stone, which early Pitchfork writers probably would have hated.
I think 10 years ago they had already started moving a bit from the overtly white indie cred of their early years, their 2000s are some of my favorite but they already had big stars like Beyonce, Justin Timberlake or Kelly Clarkson near the very top. I think that's when they were at their best, mixing an indie sensibility with a broader more all embracing taste. I'd even say their love for JT, Annie or Robyn was one of the kickstarters of poptimism (thought back then they just plain ignored Taylor Swift, Bieber or Lady Gaga)
They clearly moved away from that, I don't know what they are supposed to be positioned as now, it's not always clear cut, but not indie centric for sure. I don't have examples right from the top of my head but I've often been surprised by releases from some indie bands they used to love not being even reviewed at all.
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Re: Pitchfork’s 25th - 200 most important artists of the past 25 years

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Arsalan wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:02 pm
Nick wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:20 pm Eminem's lack of inclusion is as close to "objectively wrong" as a list like this can get, regardless of your thoughts on his music.
Linkin Park too. They were by far the biggest Rock band of the 2000s and early 2010s. Their records weren't universally acclaimed but in terms of importance, influence and popularity Linkin Park is definitely one of the top 200 artists of the past 25 years.
Popularity sure, importance I don't think so but it's hard to define but I'm interested by who you think they influenced because I don't hear it much in successful (commercially or critically) bands.
Honestly the only artist I ever heard and thought "there is some Linkin Park in there" is Lil Peep and the only successful (if not great) band would be Bring me the Horizon.

Edit : Rina Sawayama maybe ?
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Re: Pitchfork’s 25th - 200 most important artists of the past 25 years

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Nassim wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:53 pm
Arsalan wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:02 pm
Nick wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:20 pm Eminem's lack of inclusion is as close to "objectively wrong" as a list like this can get, regardless of your thoughts on his music.
Linkin Park too. They were by far the biggest Rock band of the 2000s and early 2010s. Their records weren't universally acclaimed but in terms of importance, influence and popularity Linkin Park is definitely one of the top 200 artists of the past 25 years.
Popularity sure, importance I don't think so but it's hard to define but I'm interested by who you think they influenced because I don't hear it much in successful (commercially or critically) bands.
Honestly the only artist I ever heard and thought "there is some Linkin Park in there" is Lil Peep and the only successful (if not great) band would be Bring me the Horizon.

Edit : Rina Sawayama maybe ?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linkin_Park
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Re: Pitchfork’s 25th - 200 most important artists of the past 25 years

Post by Nassim »

Arsalan wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:14 pm
Nassim wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:53 pm
Arsalan wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:02 pm

Linkin Park too. They were by far the biggest Rock band of the 2000s and early 2010s. Their records weren't universally acclaimed but in terms of importance, influence and popularity Linkin Park is definitely one of the top 200 artists of the past 25 years.
Popularity sure, importance I don't think so but it's hard to define but I'm interested by who you think they influenced because I don't hear it much in successful (commercially or critically) bands.
Honestly the only artist I ever heard and thought "there is some Linkin Park in there" is Lil Peep and the only successful (if not great) band would be Bring me the Horizon.

Edit : Rina Sawayama maybe ?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linkin_Park
Those are mostly relatively minor bands, that don't make them hugely influential. I can see the link to Imagine Dragons, not too sure how they influenced The Weeknd or Stormzy though.
I hear much more recently a revival of emo and skate punk than anything owing to LP brand of nu metal.
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Re: Pitchfork’s 25th - 200 most important artists of the past 25 years

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Coldplay... :)
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Re: Pitchfork’s 25th - 200 most important artists of the past 25 years

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panam wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:58 pmColdplay... :)
Yeah they'd have a much more solid claim to make such a list, a lot of the music from the past 20 years bears their sound or influence. I see several issues though :
- they are pretty uncool, and never really were, not that it should matter but I think it should
- depending on where you sit, they haven't released a decent album for 10, 13 or 19 years, and everything they have released after 2011 was pretty terrible
- they never got a review higher than 7.0 by Pitchfork
- I think Pitchfork hates much of the music they heavily influenced
Nassim wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:04 pm
Jackson wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:48 pm The re-rating feature was fun, but it also begs the question: does this mean they stand by every other rating they've released except for those 19??
No they don't, for sure, a bunch of their top 200 albums of the 2010s didn't get best new music on release, they would revise those. ANTI- is their 12th best album of the decade and it got a 7.7
I also don't think they'd still give Source Tags & Codes a 10.
I will add Dr Dre's Compton on that list, 8.8 on release, 32nd album on their EOY list, not at all in their EOD list (or in any EOD list actually).
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