Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
I was listening to Tommy earlier this week and was struck by the fact at the end Tommy hires Uncle Ernie for his holiday camp.
I know it’s supposed to be a religious forgiveness kind of thing. But in retrospect, he is putting a guy with a history of child molestation in charge of children.
There’s also a ton of songs which a level of misogyny that was normalized in their era but with modern ears come off as terrible, like the Stones Stupid Girl and Under My Thumb. A song literally celebrating that the singer successfully crushed his girlfriend’s free will.
Of course the unfortunate Pretty Young Thing.
What’s some other songs which seemed worse looking back with modern eyes than they would have when they came out?
I know it’s supposed to be a religious forgiveness kind of thing. But in retrospect, he is putting a guy with a history of child molestation in charge of children.
There’s also a ton of songs which a level of misogyny that was normalized in their era but with modern ears come off as terrible, like the Stones Stupid Girl and Under My Thumb. A song literally celebrating that the singer successfully crushed his girlfriend’s free will.
Of course the unfortunate Pretty Young Thing.
What’s some other songs which seemed worse looking back with modern eyes than they would have when they came out?
Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
Stevie Wonder - Superwoman
Alice Cooper - Only Women Bleed
Alice Cooper - Only Women Bleed
Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
"Into the Night" by Benny Mardones springs instantly to mind. ("She's just 16 years old, leave her alone, they say.") Though it was originally released in 1980, I first heard the song when it was re-released in 1989. I was 18 at the time and didn't think anything of it. I still love the song for the nostalgia, but I sure cringe at the lyrics now.
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
I was only two years old when that song came out, but I can reasonably assure you that songs about cannibalism were not exactly the norm in 1971, either. Talk about a fluke hit single!
(For anyone who's never heard the song, "Timothy" is a jaunty pop-rock number about a mine cave-in that traps three men. Two come back, and the song - sung from the perspective of one of the survivors - is pretty unambiguous about the reason. "Timothy! Timothy! Where on earth did you go? Timothy! Timothy! God, why don't I know?" Fun fact: the song was written by Rupert Holmes, the "Pina Colada Song" guy.)
Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
You could do a whole thread just with Stones songs - how about "Stray Cat Blues," which is one of their most ferocious rock tracks but is also kind of uncomfortable to listen to, being an unabashed celebration of sex with underage groupies. (Not to mention "Brown Sugar," which they recently announced they won't be playing anymore.)Jirin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:49 am There’s also a ton of songs which a level of misogyny that was normalized in their era but with modern ears come off as terrible, like the Stones Stupid Girl and Under My Thumb. A song literally celebrating that the singer successfully crushed his girlfriend’s free will.
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
First song I thought of was 'Young Girl' by Tab Hunter.
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
I think Uncle Ernie was always supposed to be appalling, though. It's not like the camp turned out that well.
"I Got a Woman" by Ray Charles comes to mind. Released in 1954, so that explains a bit. Later covered on Elvis's first album, and of course later used by Kanye for "Gold Digger.' It has the lines, "She knows a woman's place / Is right there, now, in her home."
"Rehab" is Amy Winehouse's best song, though joking about rehab didn't age too well.
"Paint a Vulgar Picture" by the Smiths -- a 5-and-a-half minute complaint about repackaging music to death. According to Allmusic, it "has grown increasingly ironic in the wake of the Smiths' and Morrissey's love of repackaging the same material in new compilations."
"I Got a Woman" by Ray Charles comes to mind. Released in 1954, so that explains a bit. Later covered on Elvis's first album, and of course later used by Kanye for "Gold Digger.' It has the lines, "She knows a woman's place / Is right there, now, in her home."
"Rehab" is Amy Winehouse's best song, though joking about rehab didn't age too well.
"Paint a Vulgar Picture" by the Smiths -- a 5-and-a-half minute complaint about repackaging music to death. According to Allmusic, it "has grown increasingly ironic in the wake of the Smiths' and Morrissey's love of repackaging the same material in new compilations."
Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
"Punks Jump Up to Get Beat Down" has a very nice hook and beat but also these lines:
"Though I can freak, fly, flow, fuck up a f****t
Don't understand their ways, I ain't down with gays"
"Though I can freak, fly, flow, fuck up a f****t
Don't understand their ways, I ain't down with gays"
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
Beastie Boys' "Hold It Now, Hit It": "You like men and we like beer."
Bob Dylan's "Hurricane", Elvis Costello's "Oliver's Army", and Dead Kennedy's "Holiday in Cambodia" (as well as some certain Patti Smith and Yoko Ono songs.)
Nirvana's "Come As You Are": "I swear that I don't have a gun."
Bob Dylan's "Hurricane", Elvis Costello's "Oliver's Army", and Dead Kennedy's "Holiday in Cambodia" (as well as some certain Patti Smith and Yoko Ono songs.)
Nirvana's "Come As You Are": "I swear that I don't have a gun."
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
"Wart Hog" by the Ramones, from 1984's Too Tough to Die, considered by some to be their last great album. Sung by Dee Dee,
Joey declined its appearance on the album, but Johnny lobbied for it. "I shot some dope, I feel so sick / It's a sick world, sick, sick, sick / Drugs and bitches and junkies and fags / Artificial phonies I hate it, hate it." (A sort of parallel line at the end puts it, "Drugs and bitches and commies and queers." In Johnny's book, he said something like, Well who's gonna be offended, the commies and the queers, right?)
Joey declined its appearance on the album, but Johnny lobbied for it. "I shot some dope, I feel so sick / It's a sick world, sick, sick, sick / Drugs and bitches and junkies and fags / Artificial phonies I hate it, hate it." (A sort of parallel line at the end puts it, "Drugs and bitches and commies and queers." In Johnny's book, he said something like, Well who's gonna be offended, the commies and the queers, right?)
Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
I mean at least “Hurricane” was socially on the right side, even if not in the lyrics.ordinaryperson wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:12 pm Beastie Boys' "Hold It Now, Hit It": "You like men and we like beer."
Bob Dylan's "Hurricane", Elvis Costello's "Oliver's Army", and Dead Kennedy's "Holiday in Cambodia" (as well as some certain Patti Smith and Yoko Ono songs.)
Nirvana's "Come As You Are": "I swear that I don't have a gun."
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
All those three songs are socially on point. Is it just the use of the N-word, regardless of its context use?Holden wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:23 pmI mean at least “Hurricane” was socially on the right side, even if not in the lyrics.ordinaryperson wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:12 pm Beastie Boys' "Hold It Now, Hit It": "You like men and we like beer."
Bob Dylan's "Hurricane", Elvis Costello's "Oliver's Army", and Dead Kennedy's "Holiday in Cambodia" (as well as some certain Patti Smith and Yoko Ono songs.)
Nirvana's "Come As You Are": "I swear that I don't have a gun."
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
Yeah, I mainly chose those three song because they had white people saying the N-word in it's lyrics; imagine any of these people trying to get away with something like that today without major controversy. I do understand that the use of the N-word in those songs make perfect sense in their context. Though I'm a little mixed on the Elvis Costello song, as he had called both Ray Charles and James Brown the N-word in the same year "Oliver's Army" was released.Rob wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:45 pmAll those three songs are socially on point. Is it just the use of the N-word, regardless of its context use?Holden wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:23 pmI mean at least “Hurricane” was socially on the right side, even if not in the lyrics.ordinaryperson wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:12 pm Bob Dylan's "Hurricane", Elvis Costello's "Oliver's Army", and Dead Kennedy's "Holiday in Cambodia" (as well as some certain Patti Smith and Yoko Ono songs.)
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
While extremely drunk, and being prodded and provoked by Stephen Stills, one of rock's great assholes. Not defending EC's words, just contextualizing.ordinaryperson wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:10 pm Though I'm a little mixed on the Elvis Costello song, as he had called both Ray Charles and James Brown the N-word in the same year "Oliver's Army" was released.
Kind of surprising that, given the current climate of dredging up every offensive thing every celebrity has ever done, that 1979 barroom incident hasn't been brought up more. (Same with the Ted Danson Friar's Club thing.)
Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
Speaking of offensive words, when was the last time you heard the full, unedited version of "Money for Nothing" on the radio? My local stations cut out The Verse In Question entirely. Anyone know whether Knopfler still plays it live?
I would be remiss if I didn't also add to this thread that it's almost the holidays, which means that it's almost time for the annual "Fairytale of New York" debate.
I would be remiss if I didn't also add to this thread that it's almost the holidays, which means that it's almost time for the annual "Fairytale of New York" debate.
Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
Good call on "Money For Nothing," I heard it recently on the radio and was kind of surprised they had that verse in there. Can't remember if it was FM or Sirius.
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
I’ve found Fairytale of New York and I Saw Her Standing There are still chill if you change a few words:
“You scumbag, you maggot/You look like Bob Saget”
And
“Well, WE were just seventeen…”
“You scumbag, you maggot/You look like Bob Saget”
And
“Well, WE were just seventeen…”
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
There’s obviously It’s a Man’s Man’s Man’s World
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
Green Day had a song use the N-word in 2009 and it didn't attract much controversy at the time, but that may be due more to late Green Day's cultural irrelevancy than the actual social mores of the time.ordinaryperson wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:10 pmYeah, I mainly chose those three song because they had white people saying the N-word in it's lyrics; imagine any of these people trying to get away with something like that today without major controversy. I do understand that the use of the N-word in those songs make perfect sense in their context. Though I'm a little mixed on the Elvis Costello song, as he had called both Ray Charles and James Brown the N-word in the same year "Oliver's Army" was released.
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
I'd add The Cure's "Why Can't I Be You" music video onto that list too.Harold wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:06 pmKind of surprising that, given the current climate of dredging up every offensive thing every celebrity has ever done, that 1979 barroom incident hasn't been brought up more. (Same with the Ted Danson Friar's Club thing.)ordinaryperson wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:10 pm Though I'm a little mixed on the Elvis Costello song, as he had called both Ray Charles and James Brown the N-word in the same year "Oliver's Army" was released.
I think you could still get away with that in 2009 without any controversy given the context of the N-word in the song. 2014 and onwards is where they'd get canceled for it.
Last edited by ordinaryperson on Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:54 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
"I hear Bob Saget got his own jet airplane, I hear Bob Saget, he's a milli-on-aire!"StevieFan13 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:54 pm I’ve found Fairytale of New York and I Saw Her Standing There are still chill if you change a few words:
“You scumbag, you maggot/You look like Bob Saget”
Of course, if we started using "Bob Saget" as a replacement word, soon enough it would probably just get co-opted as a coded slur in and of itself, like what's going on now (in a different context) with that idiotic "Let's go Brandon" bullshit.
Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
Anyone heard about Ling Ting Tong ?
Jokes aside, I'd take Patti Smith Rock'n Roll Nigger out of the discussion on the N word, she uses it as a badge of pride, something you should revel in.
Jokes aside, I'd take Patti Smith Rock'n Roll Nigger out of the discussion on the N word, she uses it as a badge of pride, something you should revel in.
Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
It doesn't matter what her intent was. She's a white person using the word. It's no longer defensible as "cool," and it really wasn't then, either. I love Patti, and it's not like I'm going to skip the track when I listen to Easter, but it's still cringe-worthy.
Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
One of my favorite albums of the 2010s is John Grant's Queen of Denmark (2010), which contains a song titled "Jesus Hates Faggots."
If you know Grant, and the album, you know that he's a bluntly outspoken, openly gay man, and that the song is angrily directed at the bizarre, fucked-up quasi-religious ideas that his father tried to instill in him when he was a kid. In addition to the slur in the title, the lyrics contain a laundry list of other bigoted terms, including the N-word (mixed in with absurdist statements of hatred toward other things, like kangaroos and three-bean salad, to emphasize how utterly stupid all prejudices are).
The intent of the song couldn't possibly be any clearer, but I always find myself wondering whether Grant would include it (or alter it) if he was making the album today. Of course, Grant's such an ornery cuss that he might just leave it unchanged anyway, but I do wonder.
If you know Grant, and the album, you know that he's a bluntly outspoken, openly gay man, and that the song is angrily directed at the bizarre, fucked-up quasi-religious ideas that his father tried to instill in him when he was a kid. In addition to the slur in the title, the lyrics contain a laundry list of other bigoted terms, including the N-word (mixed in with absurdist statements of hatred toward other things, like kangaroos and three-bean salad, to emphasize how utterly stupid all prejudices are).
The intent of the song couldn't possibly be any clearer, but I always find myself wondering whether Grant would include it (or alter it) if he was making the album today. Of course, Grant's such an ornery cuss that he might just leave it unchanged anyway, but I do wonder.
Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
I enjoy Grant's GMF songHarold wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:51 pm One of my favorite albums of the 2010s is John Grant's Queen of Denmark (2010), which contains a song titled "Jesus Hates Faggots."
If you know Grant, and the album, you know that he's a bluntly outspoken, openly gay man, and that the song is angrily directed at the bizarre, fucked-up quasi-religious ideas that his father tried to instill in him when he was a kid. In addition to the slur in the title, the lyrics contain a laundry list of other bigoted terms, including the N-word (mixed in with absurdist statements of hatred toward other things, like kangaroos and three-bean salad, to emphasize how utterly stupid all prejudices are).
The intent of the song couldn't possibly be any clearer, but I always find myself wondering whether Grant would include it (or alter it) if he was making the album today. Of course, Grant's such an ornery cuss that he might just leave it unchanged anyway, but I do wonder.
Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
All of these songs can’t compare to A Tribe Called Quest’s “Georgie Porgie”, a song so incredibly homophobic that the record executives for the band demanded it was pulled from their masterpiece album The Low End Theory.
Here’s the opening verse:
“ In the beginning, there was Adam and Eve
But some try to make it look like Adam and Steve
Like Georgie, why can't money find a honey
I couldn't believe when I found out he was funny
You know fierce with just his right ear pierced
I couldn't hack it, I knew this brother for years
Walking in the ville with them long dreadlocks
But on the DL, getting done up the butt box
Oh my God how gross can one be
Well anyway, better him than me
Used to be down with the crew and had the girls that were def
Instead of staying to the right, he fell off to the left
So Lord J being that you go next
Pull the rest of his card cause I'm vexed”
Maybe this violates the spirit of the thread because the song was already regarded as in poor taste back in (the much more homophobic world of) 1991. But these days it would be unthinkable for a mainstream rap group to even consider putting something this hate filled out.
Here’s the opening verse:
“ In the beginning, there was Adam and Eve
But some try to make it look like Adam and Steve
Like Georgie, why can't money find a honey
I couldn't believe when I found out he was funny
You know fierce with just his right ear pierced
I couldn't hack it, I knew this brother for years
Walking in the ville with them long dreadlocks
But on the DL, getting done up the butt box
Oh my God how gross can one be
Well anyway, better him than me
Used to be down with the crew and had the girls that were def
Instead of staying to the right, he fell off to the left
So Lord J being that you go next
Pull the rest of his card cause I'm vexed”
Maybe this violates the spirit of the thread because the song was already regarded as in poor taste back in (the much more homophobic world of) 1991. But these days it would be unthinkable for a mainstream rap group to even consider putting something this hate filled out.
Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
Yeah this is just disgusting. They’ve since had at least one song I know of (We the People) where they show support for LGBT+ people but what a disgusting song. Thank goodness it never got released and ruined that album.Nick wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:35 pm All of these songs can’t compare to A Tribe Called Quest’s “Georgie Porgie”, a song so incredibly homophobic that the record executives for the band demanded it was pulled from their masterpiece album The Low End Theory.
Here’s the opening verse:
“ In the beginning, there was Adam and Eve
But some try to make it look like Adam and Steve
Like Georgie, why can't money find a honey
I couldn't believe when I found out he was funny
You know fierce with just his right ear pierced
I couldn't hack it, I knew this brother for years
Walking in the ville with them long dreadlocks
But on the DL, getting done up the butt box
Oh my God how gross can one be
Well anyway, better him than me
Used to be down with the crew and had the girls that were def
Instead of staying to the right, he fell off to the left
So Lord J being that you go next
Pull the rest of his card cause I'm vexed”
Maybe this violates the spirit of the thread because the song was already regarded as in poor taste back in (the much more homophobic world of) 1991. But these days it would be unthinkable for a mainstream rap group to even consider putting something this hate filled out.
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
I do not want to get too pulled into this threat but critisizing Dead Kennedys, Green Day, Patti Smith, and whoever else for saying the n-word in music and making them out like they are promoting racism without taking into consideration is one of the dumbest most assinine and bone-headed thing someone can do. Context matters more than anything else. SMH
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
I don't believe anyone is arguing that they're promoting racism; if someone was saying that, I agree it would be asinine and boneheaded, but since no one here's actually doing that you're kind of swinging at a straw-man pinata. It's simply that the word itself is so offensive, so loaded with baggage, that white people shouldn't be using it in songs, period. Especially if they're using it to compare marginalized groups to each other (like Lennon) or as shorthand to ham-handedly characterize outsiders (like Smith).Edre Peraza wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:19 am I do not want to get too pulled into this threat but critisizing Dead Kennedys, Green Day, Patti Smith, and whoever else for saying the n-word in music and making them out like they are promoting racism without taking into consideration is one of the dumbest most assinine and bone-headed thing someone can do. Context matters more than anything else. SMH
Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
I feel like criticism is certainly reasonable. I don’t hate them for it. It was a mistake, but I don’t think they should’ve used the word, and I’m not scared to say that they shouldn’t have. I don’t think they were promoting racism but they aren’t above criticism because of that.
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
It's just so weird to see Tribe, of all groups, saying such vile shit. They were so chill and all about spreading good vibes, and here they are with this horrible homophobic stuff. Thank God someone talked sense into them. Tells you how pervasive those attitudes can be, especially in the early '90s.Nick wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:35 pm All of these songs can’t compare to A Tribe Called Quest’s “Georgie Porgie”, a song so incredibly homophobic that the record executives for the band demanded it was pulled from their masterpiece album The Low End Theory.
Here’s the opening verse:
“ In the beginning, there was Adam and Eve
But some try to make it look like Adam and Steve
Like Georgie, why can't money find a honey
I couldn't believe when I found out he was funny
You know fierce with just his right ear pierced
I couldn't hack it, I knew this brother for years
Walking in the ville with them long dreadlocks
But on the DL, getting done up the butt box
Oh my God how gross can one be
Well anyway, better him than me
Used to be down with the crew and had the girls that were def
Instead of staying to the right, he fell off to the left
So Lord J being that you go next
Pull the rest of his card cause I'm vexed”
Maybe this violates the spirit of the thread because the song was already regarded as in poor taste back in (the much more homophobic world of) 1991. But these days it would be unthinkable for a mainstream rap group to even consider putting something this hate filled out.
Music is a world within itself, with a language we all understand - Sir Duke (1976)
Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
Public Enemy's Fear of a Black Planet has the equally horrible "Meet the G That Killed Me" ("Man to man, I don't know if they can / From what I know, the parts don't fit-Ah, shit!"), which also launches into tinfoil-hat "the-government-created-AIDS" conspiracy-theory territory. Pretty impressive for a track that only lasts 45 seconds. At least it's short.StevieFan13 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:08 am It's just so weird to see Tribe, of all groups, saying such vile shit. They were so chill and all about spreading good vibes, and here they are with this horrible homophobic stuff. Thank God someone talked sense into them. Tells you how pervasive those attitudes can be, especially in the early '90s.
Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
I see stuff like Hurricane as the knee-jerk sort of offense, automatic reactions without considering context. I put those in a different category as ones whose meaning is racist or misogynistic. Same with Brown Sugar, the song is in no way defending the actions of the narrator.
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
That same album has "Welcome to the Terrordome" with its anti-Semitic talk.Harold wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:12 pmPublic Enemy's Fear of a Black Planet has the equally horrible "Meet the G That Killed Me" ("Man to man, I don't know if they can / From what I know, the parts don't fit-Ah, shit!"), which also launches into tinfoil-hat "the-government-created-AIDS" conspiracy-theory territory. Pretty impressive for a track that only lasts 45 seconds. At least it's short.StevieFan13 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:08 am It's just so weird to see Tribe, of all groups, saying such vile shit. They were so chill and all about spreading good vibes, and here they are with this horrible homophobic stuff. Thank God someone talked sense into them. Tells you how pervasive those attitudes can be, especially in the early '90s.
Music is a world within itself, with a language we all understand - Sir Duke (1976)
Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
What about Simple Man with Charlie Daniels Band?
I think of all the songs about really young girls as well. Only Sixteen for example. Just think if R.Kelly would have done a song like that
I think of all the songs about really young girls as well. Only Sixteen for example. Just think if R.Kelly would have done a song like that
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
I agree on this pointJirin wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:58 pm I see stuff like Hurricane as the knee-jerk sort of offense, automatic reactions without considering context. I put those in a different category as ones whose meaning is racist or misogynistic. Same with Brown Sugar, the song is in no way defending the actions of the narrator.
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
Definitely agree on "Hurricane," not really so much on "Brown Sugar" (I don't think the song is racist, but it's not exactly Randy Newman-level role-playing satire either).Edre Peraza wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:54 pmI agree on this pointJirin wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:58 pm I see stuff like Hurricane as the knee-jerk sort of offense, automatic reactions without considering context. I put those in a different category as ones whose meaning is racist or misogynistic. Same with Brown Sugar, the song is in no way defending the actions of the narrator.
Something like "Money for Nothing" is a little more complicated. Knopfler is clearly playing a character - the working-class yobbo ranting about MTV and the easy life while lugging around his fridges and color TVs - so yes, he can distance himself and say that the views expressed with regard to The Little You-Know-What are the character's and not his own. But it's not a stretch to think that he wants his audience to laugh at both the yobbo AND The Little You-Know-What. So the context goes both ways there.
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
Yeah that is a pretty good point. To me it does matter the role of the narrator in the song.Harold wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:47 pmDefinitely agree on "Hurricane," not really so much on "Brown Sugar" (I don't think the song is racist, but it's not exactly Randy Newman-level role-playing satire either).Edre Peraza wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:54 pmI agree on this pointJirin wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:58 pm I see stuff like Hurricane as the knee-jerk sort of offense, automatic reactions without considering context. I put those in a different category as ones whose meaning is racist or misogynistic. Same with Brown Sugar, the song is in no way defending the actions of the narrator.
Something like "Money for Nothing" is a little more complicated. Knopfler is clearly playing a character - the working-class yobbo ranting about MTV and the easy life while lugging around his fridges and color TVs - so yes, he can distance himself and say that the views expressed with regard to The Little You-Know-What are the character's and not his own. But it's not a stretch to think that he wants his audience to laugh at both the yobbo AND The Little You-Know-What. So the context goes both ways there.
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
Was just reminded of the song 'Thank Heaven for Little Girls' by Maurice Chevalier. Hmmmm...
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
Cases like Brown Sugar and Money For Nothing, it might be a good idea not to play the offensive parts at concerts just to keep them accessible, just as long as they don’t take it down from streaming services so you can still hear it whenever you want.
Dire Straits isn’t calling feminine looking rockers the F word, the movers are. And that’s how a lot of working class people talked in the 80s, and they’re essentially calling themselves the word to satirize other people’s perception of their lifestyle. It’s no different from a book that takes place in the 19th century having the N word. Eliminate it, you’re not eliminating the racism, you’re whitewashing it.
If you’re going to tell stories about bigoted periods in history, you need to be free to use bigoted language, as long as you’re not portraying it positively or nostalgically.
Dire Straits isn’t calling feminine looking rockers the F word, the movers are. And that’s how a lot of working class people talked in the 80s, and they’re essentially calling themselves the word to satirize other people’s perception of their lifestyle. It’s no different from a book that takes place in the 19th century having the N word. Eliminate it, you’re not eliminating the racism, you’re whitewashing it.
If you’re going to tell stories about bigoted periods in history, you need to be free to use bigoted language, as long as you’re not portraying it positively or nostalgically.
Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
I remember doing "American Idiot" at karaoke once and my friends murmuring at the f-word drop. Which is funny to me, because Billie Joe Armstrong has publicly identified as bisexual in the past and thus should be afforded the ability to use that word, especially when the line is clearly reflecting on people trying to insult him.
Of course, the same album has 'Am I retarded or am I just overjoyed?' on "Jesus of Suburbia." It's a very mid-2000s album.
Of course, the same album has 'Am I retarded or am I just overjoyed?' on "Jesus of Suburbia." It's a very mid-2000s album.
Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
Yeah, pedophilia is very pervasive in French art unfortunately, it has been glamorized and romanticized in movies, songs and literature a lot, even quite recently.TheLastEnemy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:31 pm Was just reminded of the song 'Thank Heaven for Little Girls' by Maurice Chevalier. Hmmmm...
Even in interviews, guys like Claude François openly talked about sleeping only with young teens.
I'm not saying it doesn't exist elsewhere (songs like Motorhead's Jailbait are iffy) but in France it has been very open and accepted far too long.
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
I feel like that one's even easier than Fairytale of New York because the word isn't use as part of a rhyme. "That little fella's got his own jet airplane/That little fella, he's a millionaire." Heck, if you wanted to keep the "working class yobbo" vibe and make it perhaps more New York-y, "That motherfucker's got his own jet airplane..." would work too.Jirin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:11 pm Cases like Brown Sugar and Money For Nothing, it might be a good idea not to play the offensive parts at concerts just to keep them accessible, just as long as they don’t take it down from streaming services so you can still hear it whenever you want.
Dire Straits isn’t calling feminine looking rockers the F word, the movers are. And that’s how a lot of working class people talked in the 80s, and they’re essentially calling themselves the word to satirize other people’s perception of their lifestyle. It’s no different from a book that takes place in the 19th century having the N word. Eliminate it, you’re not eliminating the racism, you’re whitewashing it.
If you’re going to tell stories about bigoted periods in history, you need to be free to use bigoted language, as long as you’re not portraying it positively or nostalgically.
Music is a world within itself, with a language we all understand - Sir Duke (1976)
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
It's a weird thing. I'm bi, like Billie Joe, and I'm on the autism spectrum, and the use of those words never bothered me within the song and I've never seen anyone call Green Day out on those lyrics. That being said, when I saw them live, I still didn't sing along to those words, even though ostensibly I'm "entitled" to. Just didn't feel quite right. Weird outlying example there.BleuPanda wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:12 pm I remember doing "American Idiot" at karaoke once and my friends murmuring at the f-word drop. Which is funny to me, because Billie Joe Armstrong has publicly identified as bisexual in the past and thus should be afforded the ability to use that word, especially when the line is clearly reflecting on people trying to insult him.
Of course, the same album has 'Am I retarded or am I just overjoyed?' on "Jesus of Suburbia." It's a very mid-2000s album.
Music is a world within itself, with a language we all understand - Sir Duke (1976)
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
Oh yeah, I never saw the movie, but I used to have the Gigi soundtrack. Someone could ruthlessly use that song as background music for Ghislaine Maxwell's trial coverage.Nassim wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:44 pmYeah, pedophilia is very pervasive in French art unfortunately, it has been glamorized and romanticized in movies, songs and literature a lot, even quite recently.TheLastEnemy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:31 pm Was just reminded of the song 'Thank Heaven for Little Girls' by Maurice Chevalier. Hmmmm...
Even in interviews, guys like Claude François openly talked about sleeping only with young teens.
I'm not saying it doesn't exist elsewhere (songs like Motorhead's Jailbait are iffy) but in France it has been very open and accepted far too long.
Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
Serge Gainsbourg (whose music I love) once recorded a duet with his 12 year old daughter called "Lemon Incest" in which the lyrics describe the mutual sexual attraction between a man and his daughter. The music video featured a shirtless Serge laying in bed with his daughter, who was wearing only a shirt and panties.Nassim wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:44 pmYeah, pedophilia is very pervasive in French art unfortunately, it has been glamorized and romanticized in movies, songs and literature a lot, even quite recently.TheLastEnemy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:31 pm Was just reminded of the song 'Thank Heaven for Little Girls' by Maurice Chevalier. Hmmmm...
Even in interviews, guys like Claude François openly talked about sleeping only with young teens.
I'm not saying it doesn't exist elsewhere (songs like Motorhead's Jailbait are iffy) but in France it has been very open and accepted far too long.
The single peaked at #2 on the French charts.
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
My '70s listening list includes Histoire de Melody Nelson, but I've heard it has some problems...
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
For what it's worth, provocation was always the point with Serge Gainsbourgh.Live in Phoenix wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:13 am My '70s listening list includes Histoire de Melody Nelson, but I've heard it has some problems...
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Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly
I just remembered one. Soooooo I have been a pretty big Travis Scott fan for a few years and even after the tragedy, albums like Astroworld are still personal favorites of mine. But there is one lyric that didn't age well.
Travis Scott - Stargazing "it ain't a mosh pit if theres no injuries, I got em' stagediving from the nosebleeds"
Travis Scott - Stargazing "it ain't a mosh pit if theres no injuries, I got em' stagediving from the nosebleeds"
Edre the Depeche Head