ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S UNOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

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ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S UNOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Henrik » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:45 am

As has been discussed in this thread, there won't be a site update this year, but here are the current, unofficial, positions. Albums and songs from 2015 are included, but the list of 3000+ songs that will be added next year are not included here.´

A lot more movement in the songs list compared to the albums list, even though a large number of new albums lists has been added. So many albums lists that have been added to AM over the years, that a few additional lists don't make much of a difference anymore.

The songs lists that have been published/discovered during the last year or so are generally from less "fashionable" sources than before. I think it has both its pros and cons. Anyway, you will see a big boost of the classic rock canon.

"Smells Like Teen Spirit" has unofficially overtaken the number one spot from "Like a Rolling Stone", but with about the smallest margin possible. Right now they are virtually tied in the top!
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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby antonius » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:52 am

Sad to see "Crosseyed & Painless" (Talking Heads) and "Galang" M.I.A. dropping so much
Great to see "Taj Mahal" (Jorge Ben) , "By this River" (Brain Eno) and "La Grange" (ZZ Top) advancing

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby jamieW » Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:49 pm

Thanks, Henrik! I'm really looking forward to going through these today.

It doesn't surprise me that "Smells Like Teen Spirit" has overtaken "Like a Rolling Stone." I figured it would happen someday, given that it would be the canonical song for a generation of new critics. (Much the same way "Vertigo" finally overtook "Citizen Kane" in the last S&S poll.)

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Bruno » Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:50 pm

A big thanks, Henrik!!!

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Nick » Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:54 pm

Coming from someone who actually likes "Hotline Bling" a good amount, there is just about nothing in that song that screams "top 5 song of the decade thus far".

Also really dismayed at the drop of just about every acclaimed song from 2000 to 2014. How can this be?

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Bruno » Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:09 pm

Henrik,

In the next update we'll also have genres in songs?

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Romain » Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:17 pm

Thanks Henrik !
It's cool because I can't find any scheme in the up or down on the song list !

My biggest "YES" is for Ne me quitte pas ! Good job Brel, good job !

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby slick » Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:22 pm

That was amazing... I wish I would have written down all of my comments. Big push for classic rock and drops for 90's early 200's alternative/Indie artists...

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby cjppats43 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:10 pm

Neat. Thanks. Also, Like a Rolling Stone is the greatest song ever. Period. End of story. I love Nirvana, and like so many people, Nevermind was the first album I ever bought. I'm a little bit in shock actually.

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Listyguy » Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:38 pm

This is great stuff Henrik, thanks for sharing!

First things I noticed: Almost every Jimi Hendrix song gained impressively (most of the ones late in the list saw +400 rank improvements). Also To Pimp a Butterfly at #100 even.

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Sweepstakes Ron » Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:11 pm

Awesome! Thanks, Henrik!

Do you all think it would be a good idea to use this unofficial update for my planned countdown video? I doubt any of the 3,000+ songs to be added would make the top 1000, but I wonder if I should wait until an official update to make it.

EDIT: I can't wait, I'm making the video. Stay tuned!
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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Henrik » Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:15 pm

Listyguy wrote:First things I noticed: Almost every Jimi Hendrix song gained impressively (most of the ones late in the list saw +400 rank improvements).

Yeah, but look at Led Zeppelin.
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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Listyguy » Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:25 pm

Henrik wrote:
Listyguy wrote:First things I noticed: Almost every Jimi Hendrix song gained impressively (most of the ones late in the list saw +400 rank improvements).

Yeah, but look at Led Zeppelin.

Wow....that's impressive.

As an aside, I can't fathom "Immigrant Song" actually being THAT highly revered. It's certainly not better than most of the other Zeppelin songs that are on the AM list, at least in my opinion.

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby acroamor » Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:02 pm

Very much loving the large boost that Leonard Cohen's gotten here, although in general, it seems like much of the past fifteen years is getting diminished in favor of very classic-rock "canon" type songs.

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby andyd1010 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:48 pm

A lot of interesting changes. I'm very surprised that Thunder Road dropped out of the top 100, especially with the boosts so many other classic rock songs got.

But thank you very much for the update Henrik! I am excited to check out all of the new additions.
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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby VanillaFire1000 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:27 pm

Thanks for the update Henrik. Can't wait for the real thing!

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Jonathon » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:38 pm

Are you now only attributing two artist albums to primary artists? i.e. Billy Bragg & Wilco's Mermaid Avenue? Because California Stars was fully written by Wilco, and Billy Bragg only played rhythm guitar. Don't think it's fair to dock them one of their highest rated songs.

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Bruno » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:27 am

Correct me if I'm wrong:

By my count, so far, the AM will have 13,082 songs along with the songs that will be added in the next update.

Based on what Henrik said, will be 10,000 ranked songs and over 3,000 songs as "bubbling under".

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Moonbeam » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:46 am

A self-serving look at my favorites on the song list:

Prince:

When Doves Cry: 28 (0)
Purple Rain: 161 (+59)
Little Red Corvette: 182 (-29)
Kiss: 210 (+9)
Sign o' the Times: 237 (-56)
1999: 306 (-7)
Raspberry Beret: 1145 (-104)
If I Was Your Girlfriend: 1338 (-20)
Let's Go Crazy: 1343 (+306)
Controversy: 1464 (+330)
I Would Die 4 U: 1530 (+65)
When You Were Mine: 1560 (+646)
I Wanna Be Your Lover: 1608 (+902)
Alphabet St.: 2218 (-391)
Sexy MF: 2623 (-191)
Erotic City: 2686 (+611)
The Most Beautiful Girl in the World: 2970 (+68)
I Could Never Take the Place of Your Man: 3191 (+192)
Pop Life: 3224 (+513)
Gett Off: 3612 (-684)
Cream: 3790 (-481)
U Got the Look: 4170 (-776)
Batdance: 4625 (-742)
Diamonds and Pearls: 5238 (+552)
Black Sweat: 5933 (-46)

Mostly good. The heavy hitters balanced out to break about even (though I would trade the upward gain for "Purple Rain" and "Kiss" for an equivalent gain for "1999"). The mid-range songs did pretty well as well. Happy to see big boosts for "Let's Go Crazy" and "Controversy". I wish "Uptown" got the love that "When You Were Mine" gets, but I'm happy for that as well. There is a general big dropoff toward the bottom, though, particularly for his 90s stuff. It's a shame that "Diamonds and Pearls" and "The Most Beautiful Girl in the World" are the ones to make advances, because while I enjoy them, they are far too sappy in comparison to the better songs from that period that took heavy hits.

Eurythmics:

Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This): 304 (+85)
Here Comes the Rain Again: 2243 (+1296)
Would I Lie to You?: 4269 (-251)
Who's That Girl?: 4450 (-373)
Sisters Are Doin' It for Themselves: 5425 (new)

Very happy for the big advances of the top 2! "Who's That Girl?" deserves a similar boost. I'm surprised "Love Is a Stranger" isn't anywhere still, but overall, this is a good result.

The Cure:

Just Like Heaven: 240 (-6)
Boys Don't Cry: 356 (+15)
Close to Me: 723 (+291)
In Between Days: 954 (-121)
A Forest: 1054 (-160)
Friday Im in Love: 1366 (0)
Pictures of You: 1372 (+10)
Lovesong: 1440 (+556)
Lullaby: 1492 (+113)
Killing an Arab: 1539 (-83)
The Love Cats: 2151 (-179)
10:15 Saturday Night: 2837 (-94)
Let's Go to Bed: 2872 (-533)
Why Can't I Be You?: 3521 (-755)
Disintegration: 3530 (-1180)
Fascination Street: 4992 (new)
Charlotte Sometimes: 5330 (-556)

Very chuffed for "Lovesong" and "Lullaby"! I'd trade all of the gain for "Close to Me" and "Boys Don't Cry" for an equiavlent gain for "A Forest". And man, The Cure's lower-level songs here got hammered. Happy to see the debut of "Fascination Street", though, a top 3 Cure song.

Björk:

Hyper-Ballad: 880 (-83)
Venus as a Boy: 1230 (+49)
Army of Me: 1406 (-79)
Big Time Sensuality: 1411 (+7)
Human Behaviour: 1574 (-219)
Stonemilker: 2269 (new)
Pagan Poetry: 2284 (-194)
Joga: 2506 (-538)
Bachelorette: 3461 (-526)
It's Oh So Quiet: 3494 (+1988)
All Is Full of Love: 3972 (-336)
Earth Intruders: 5011 (+408)
Play Dead: 5212 (-498)
I've Seen It All: 5748 (-385)
New World: 5839 (-1102)

The less I say about this, the better. Ugh.

Janet Jackson:

When I Think of You: 2458 (+1285)
Rhythm Nation: 2643 (+1196)
What Have You Done for Me Lately: 2843 (+67)
Got 'Til It's Gone: 2970 (-525)
That's the Way Love Goes: 2986 (+418)
Nasty: 2992 (-493)
The Pleasure Principle: 4460 (+898)
If: 4578 (-174)
Together Again: 4949 (new)

Hooray for "Rhythm Nation"! A generally good update for Janet. I do wonder, though, when critics will realize that Rhythm Nation 1814 deserves more representation than the title track. It's easily her best album, and one of the best pop albums of all time.

Madonna:

Like a Prayer: 162 (+30)
Into the Groove: 212 (+11)
Like a Virgin: 250 (-2)
Vogue: 567 (+155)
Ray of Light: 714 (+6)
Borderline: 782 (+114)
Music: 1017 (-205)
Hung Up: 1076 (+99)
Holiday: 1131 (+273)
Material Girl: 1141 (+212)
Papa Don't Preach: 1381 (+206)
Live to Tell: 1584 (-109)
Justify My Love: 1847 (-215)
Beautiful Stranger: 1969 (-255)
Express Yourself: 2029 (+171)
Lucky Star: 2186 (+1059)
Crazy for You: 2354 (-118)
Open Your Heart: 2620 (+314)
Erotica: 3143 (-328)
Frozen: 3372 (-206)
Don't Tell Me: 3813 (+130)
Deeper and Deeper: 4175 (new)
Burning Up: 4227 (new)
Secret: 4535 (-1300)
Who's That Girl: 4976 (+838)
Where's the Party: 5402 (-1080)
La Isla Bonita: 5683 (new)
Die Another Day: 5910 (+39)

Mostly good. The debut of her best song ("Burning Up") is thrilling. Hopefully "Oh Father" can follow suit!

So overall, not so bad for my favorites. Reading other comments, it seems like classic rock has had a big bump at the expense of some 00s favorites, which would make me sad.

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby whuntva » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:55 am

So can I start Unacclaimed IV now?

It's not an official update, but since there are songs in place and there is a new version of the list, is it okay to begin a new version based on this list?
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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby panam » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:04 am

Congratulations!

I see many Spanish songs from last ten years between 5000 and 10000th place but there's no Joan Manuel Serrat''s "Mediterraneo", a classic from 1971 that I have seen it on many lists. I am curious about this particular case.

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Moonbeam » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:22 am

whuntva wrote:So can I start Unacclaimed IV now?

It's not an official update, but since there are songs in place and there is a new version of the list, is it okay to begin a new version based on this list?


I'd love that! There are a few songs I've been dying to nominate for the next Unacclaimed.

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Moonbeam » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:23 am

A big thank you to Henrik for this. I know it must be very difficult to persist with these updates. You are a legend, my friend!

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby whuntva » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:31 am

Moonbeam wrote:
whuntva wrote:So can I start Unacclaimed IV now?

It's not an official update, but since there are songs in place and there is a new version of the list, is it okay to begin a new version based on this list?


I'd love that! There are a few songs I've been dying to nominate for the next Unacclaimed.


Alright. But just before I do, I noticed a flaw in my formatting.

I took the format of this year's tournament to referendum, and the winning format (by one vote) was "128 songs, single elimination (moderately style)".

The problem with this is unlike Moderately Acclaimed Songs or Albums, I have no convenient way to "Seed" them because by the logic of the tournament, they are all unranked. And I don't know how a random jumble would work in this setting.

There will be 128 songs this year no matter what, but should I keep the "World Cup" format or go with the "Moderately Format"? And if the latter, how shall I group the songs?
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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Moonbeam » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:34 am

whuntva wrote:
Moonbeam wrote:
whuntva wrote:So can I start Unacclaimed IV now?

It's not an official update, but since there are songs in place and there is a new version of the list, is it okay to begin a new version based on this list?


I'd love that! There are a few songs I've been dying to nominate for the next Unacclaimed.


Alright. But just before I do, I noticed a flaw in my formatting.

I took the format of this year's tournament to referendum, and the winning format (by one vote) was "128 songs, single elimination (moderately style)".

The problem with this is unlike Moderately Acclaimed Songs or Albums, I have no convenient way to "Seed" them because by the logic of the tournament, they are all unranked. And I don't know how a random jumble would work in this setting.

There will be 128 songs this year no matter what, but should I keep the "World Cup" format or go with the "Moderately Format"? And if the latter, how shall I group the songs?


I'd definitely go with the World Cup format. It lessens the chance of one favorite being eliminated early by another due to luck of the draw. For the first Unacclaimed, I overcompensated for this by having it as a double elimination tournament, and it really killed participation. The World Cup format seems like a good compromise.

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby bootsy » Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:11 am

Moonbeam wrote:
Janet Jackson:

When I Think of You: 2458 (+1285)
Rhythm Nation: 2643 (+1196)
What Have You Done for Me Lately: 2843 (+67)
Got 'Til It's Gone: 2970 (-525)
That's the Way Love Goes: 2986 (+418)
Nasty: 2992 (-493)
The Pleasure Principle: 4460 (+898)
If: 4578 (-174)
Together Again: 4949 (new)

Hooray for "Rhythm Nation"! A generally good update for Janet. I do wonder, though, when critics will realize that Rhythm Nation 1814 deserves more representation than the title track. It's easily her best album, and one of the best pop albums of all time.



Yeah I'm going to have to disagree with this because this is:
Image


However, I do agree that RN1814 probably doesn't get as much love as it should. It got her into the pop mainstream but Control is a perfect album to me or very close to it.

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Moonbeam » Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:19 am

Control is great too, but I think "Funny How Time Flies" and "He Doesn't Know I'm Alive" are rather pedestrian. Not bad, but inessential, IMO. The six big singles and "You Can Be Mine" are ace, though!

Rhythm Nation 1814 is one of just 3 albums I've heard where I rate every song a 9 or higher. Strangely enough, Prince doesn't have such an album (1999 is really close, though, and may end up becoming the 4th).

Really, though, you can't go wrong with either album.

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby bootsy » Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:13 am

Moonbeam wrote:Control is great too, but I think "Funny How Time Flies" and "He Doesn't Know I'm Alive" are rather pedestrian. Not bad, but inessential, IMO. The six big singles and "You Can Be Mine" are ace, though!

Rhythm Nation 1814 is one of just 3 albums I've heard where I rate every song a 9 or higher. Strangely enough, Prince doesn't have such an album (1999 is really close, though, and may end up becoming the 4th).

Really, though, you can't go wrong with either album.

Funny How Time Flies, love that song. Not pedestrian at all. He Doesn't Know I'm Alive I can probably co-sign with you on that. That is probably the weak link on the album.

Agreed you can't go wrong either.

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Dexter » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:50 am

Bah, Henrik! I have a 4-day long weekend but halfway through all I got from it are dark circles under my eyes!!

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Moonbeam » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:06 am

So I've geeked out a bit more with the song list. I've put together a big spreadsheet with song ratings (something I'm hoping to share with the forum so that we can get recommendations via correlations), and this update is not looking so Moonbeam-friendly.

I looked at relative change for each song I had rated as (old position - new position)/(old position), so a value of 0.2 means a song improved its ranking by 20%.

Here is how these changes played out for various levels of my song ratings (with number of songs in brackets):

0-0.5: +5.27% (40)
1-1.5: +6.20% (62)
2-2.5: +7.12% (89)
3-3.5: +0.17% (104)
4-4.5: +2.35% (100)
5-5.5: +2.81% (180)
6-6.5: +2.08% (262)
7-7.5: -0.42% (432)
8-8.5: -1.02% (382)
9-9.5: -1.32% (326)
10: -0.86% (224)

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Moonbeam » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:21 am

Here are the relative changes for the top 20 artists. By the way, I'm treating songs from 2014 and earlier that were previously unranked to have a former position of 7000, and songs that fell out of the top 6000 to have a new position of 7000.

The Beatles: +4.30%
Bob Dylan: -1.45%
The Rolling Stones: +10.66%
David Bowie: -0.72%
Bruce Springsteen: +7.02%
Radiohead: -14.24%
Neil Young: +7.14%
Elvis Presley: -2.82%
The Beach Boys: -7.92%
Prince: -1.47%
R.E.M.: -10.73%
Led Zeppelin: +25.13%
The Who: +7.18%
The Velvet Underground: -2.92%
The Clash: -0.82%
Jimi Hendrix: +14.64%
Marvin Gaye: -3.33%
Elvis Costello: -17.40%
Nirvana: +4.22%

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby prosecutorgodot » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:18 am

As others have noticed, virtually every song from the 21st century has taken a tumble in the charts. Words cannot express how crestfallen I feel. I am really grateful this is not an official charting, and I hope to see some good news for the past 15 years of music, in the real update next year.

Despite my attitude, thanks again to Henrik for giving us a glimpse behind the scenes!

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby BleuPanda » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:26 pm

I believe there's also been updates where the 21st century generally moved upward together. It's a combination of which sources provide lists between years (and the discovery of lists that predate parts of this era can generally hurt it) and I'm assuming the unknown factor of how Henrik weighs certain information.

Either way, I've always been curious why it always seems to be a blanket change, as if modern music as a whole has been shifting in acclaim instead of individual works. It could also be something like:
a. Album A is #1 for its year and places near the top 100
b. Albums B-Z are ranked based off how well they did against Album A in the EOY lists
c. As time goes on, Album A is revealed to be slightly weaker and therefore tumbles a bit
d. Being that most have only appeared on EOY lists, albums B-Z fall simply due to Album A falling

I'm wondering if it's something like that. So if all the information we have on an album is that it's half as acclaimed as Channel Orange, that value is incredibly different if Channel Orange is in the top 100 compared to it being in the 170 range. I guess it all depends on how relative this information is treated.
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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Henrik » Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:29 pm

BleuPanda wrote:I believe there's also been updates where the 21st century generally moved upward together. It's a combination of which sources provide lists between years (and the discovery of lists that predate parts of this era can generally hurt it) and I'm assuming the unknown factor of how Henrik weighs certain information.

Either way, I've always been curious why it always seems to be a blanket change, as if modern music as a whole has been shifting in acclaim instead of individual works. It could also be something like:
a. Album A is #1 for its year and places near the top 100
b. Albums B-Z are ranked based off how well they did against Album A in the EOY lists
c. As time goes on, Album A is revealed to be slightly weaker and therefore tumbles a bit
d. Being that most have only appeared on EOY lists, albums B-Z fall simply due to Album A falling

I'm wondering if it's something like that. So if all the information we have on an album is that it's half as acclaimed as Channel Orange, that value is incredibly different if Channel Orange is in the top 100 compared to it being in the 170 range. I guess it all depends on how relative this information is treated.

BleuPanda, you are definitely onto something. From the AM About page:
All match-ups are summarized into a score for each album. This score is then adjusted due to which opponents the album has been matched against. As it usually takes a while for albums to reach "classic" status and appear in critics' all time lists, new albums (which mostly have been matched against other new albums in the end of year lists) tend to get low "opponent values".

When recent songs are poorly represented in new all-time lists this yields not just lower "initial scores" but also lower opponent values for recent songs. So for the final score, which combines the initial score and the opponent value, there's a double negative effect.
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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Live in Phoenix » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:51 pm

Nirvana at the summit! Though I hoped that something Nirvana would always be in either top 3. I'll get over it...
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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby mowino » Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:59 am

Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy #70 (+3)
Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp A Butterfly #100 (NE)

WOW!

Could K.dot snatch Album of the decade?

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Bruno » Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:33 am

Nick wrote:Coming from someone who actually likes "Hotline Bling" a good amount, there is just about nothing in that song that screams "top 5 song of the decade thus far".

What about "Seasons (Waiting on You)"?

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Nick » Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:07 pm

Bruno wrote:
Nick wrote:Coming from someone who actually likes "Hotline Bling" a good amount, there is just about nothing in that song that screams "top 5 song of the decade thus far".

What about "Seasons (Waiting on You)"?


I actually LOVE "Seasons", though I do expect it to drop in acclaim...

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Henrik » Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:38 pm

Jonathon wrote:Are you now only attributing two artist albums to primary artists?

Only in this spreadsheet.
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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Red Ant » Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:28 pm

That's certainly an impressive list, and must be the result of much research and hard work.

There are some esoteric looking artists in there, and I wondered how certain genres are embraced into the list whilst others seem rather bypassed, even where their artists get significant critical acclaim. The obvious one is country music, where some of the singer-songwriters / artists like Vince Gill, Mary Chapin-Carpenter or Alison Krauss don't get a mention in the 9000 entry list, let alone the 6000 entry one, and even cross-over artists from the past decades like Linda Ronstadt or Emmylou Harris don't feature as much as one might expect.

Similarly country-folk and country-rock entries seem rather sparse with the likes of the James Gang or Poco omitted, and John Denver only getting a single entry in the 6000. There are also artists who some might say have an orientation to Nashville like Bonnie Raitt, who always seems well received by the critics, but who is only managing half as many entries in the 6000 as the likes of more pop-oriented Britney Spears or Taylor Swift.

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby digifuwill » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:29 am

My theory is that the obstacle for country artists is that Europe and other parts of the world don't have much affinity for country. Country music is certainly not as popular or influential outside the USA. There may also be a bit of a bias against country due to its association with the American "heartland," given that most music critics are from big cities (or, at least, exhibit an urban sensibility).

I've also noted a smaller but quite real disparity between the rankings of golden-age hip-hop and recent rap releases. Almost every rap release pre-2000 is ranked too low. A few albums from the 1990s managed to escape hip-hop's historical ghettoization by (generally white) critics, but the rankings of that genre don't really take off until the 21st century, when rap crossed over not only into the American mainstream but, more importantly, to Europe. For example, Dizzy Rascal is good, but his music can't hold a candle to the artists he liberally borrows from. I think Dizzy (and others) were embraced by an audience not really familiar with his sources. Plus, the special significance of urban slang (much of which, for older works, is no longer in use) to rap music is an additional hurdle for, say, a primarily French-speaking listener. Of course, it works the other way, as well: non-English works are under-ranked, too.
Last edited by digifuwill on Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby digifuwill » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:52 am

A great example of the short shrift country music gets in these rankings is especially noticeable this year. In 2016 three truly towering figures in popular music have passed. While I wouldn't put Merle Haggard on quite the same level as my first and third favorite musicians of all-time, clearly Haggard's talent, output, and influence merit his inclusion in the same conversation as Prince and David Bowie. And, at least in the U.S., that's how his passing was treated. But compare their rankings on this site: the works of Bowie and Prince are ranked highly and frequently, while Haggard has a staggering ZERO ranked albums and just four ranked songs. As an artist he's ranked just 953, one spot below AlunaGeorge. I mean, come on.

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Moonbeam » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:04 am

digifuwill wrote:A great example of the short shrift country music gets in these rankings is especially noticeable this year. In 2016 three truly towering figures in popular music have passed. While I wouldn't put Merle Haggard on quite the same level as my first and third favorite musicians of all-time, clearly Haggard's talent, output, and influence merit his inclusion in the same conversation as Prince and David Bowie. And, at least in the U.S., that's how his passing was treated. But compare their rankings on this site: the works of Bowie and Prince are ranked highly and frequently, while Haggard has a staggering ZERO ranked albums and just four ranked songs. As an artist he's ranked just 953, one spot below AlunaGeorge. I mean, come on.


Not to nitpick here, but I don't think Merle Haggard's influence was as widespread as David Bowie or Prince, not even in the U.S. Although chart positions aren't everything, take a look at how the Billboard Top 200 looked in the weeks following the deaths of these three legends.

David Bowie:

http://www.billboard.com/charts/billboa ... 2016-01-30

10 albums (#1, #4, #21, #57, #65, #68, #90, #134, #143, #151)

http://www.billboard.com/charts/billboa ... 2016-02-06

6 albums (#4, #7, #63, #70, #149, #157)

Merle Haggard:

http://www.billboard.com/charts/billboa ... 2016-04-23

3 albums (#75, #88, #139)

http://www.billboard.com/charts/billboa ... 2016-04-30

4 albums (#77, #145, #146, #147)

Prince:

http://www.billboard.com/charts/billboa ... 2016-05-07

8 albums (#1, #2, #6, #31, #61, #95, #147, #160)

http://www.billboard.com/charts/billboa ... 2016-05-14

19 albums (#2, #3, #4, #6, #7, #20, #48, #50, #51, #52, #55, #56, #51, #80, #81, #111, #116, #138, #192)

David Bowie and Prince are in the conversation for the very best of their genres (and they crossed multiple genres). Merle Haggard is a country legend, but I don't think he's on the same level of influence or acclaim as someone like Johnny Cash, Hank Williams, Willie Nelson, or Gram Parsons.

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Dexter » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:18 am

To add, most publications like RS, Pitchfork, NME, Mojo, etc. that churn out lists that it seems their life depended on it as well as most critics are almost exclusively rock oriented with a few exceptions like Johnny Cash and Patsy Cline. But really the real reason is that, let's face it, rock is the dominant genre.
Also, not being rude here, there's a certain double standard when it comes to genre-specific lists. For example, RS came out with its greatest country songs but it was deemed ineligible as shown here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3608&p=52488&hilit=rolling+stone+country+songs#p52488

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby prosecutorgodot » Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:53 am

For the Unofficial top 5000 songs, here is the breakdown by decade/half-decade of average change from the Official (so no new songs included)

Pretty much only the 70s and 80s rose.

Average changes:
1897-1929: 9.6% fall
1930-1939: 12.3% fall
1940-1949: 7.7% fall

1950-1954: 5.4% fall
1955-1959: 5.3% fall
1960-1964: 6.6% fall

1965-1969: 0.9% rise
1970-1974: 4.4% rise
1975-1979: 6.6% rise
1980-1984: 4.0% rise
1985-1989: 1.5% rise

1990-1994: 6.4% fall
1995-1999: 4.8% fall
2000-2004: 11.4% fall
2005-2009: 7.8% fall
2010-2014: 11.0% fall

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Jonathon » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:13 pm

Henrik, I have no desire to stress you out more in future years, but I have to ask...with the song list expanding from 3000 to 6000, to 10,000, are we due for an album list expansion by decade's end?

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Henrik » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:38 pm

Jonathon wrote:Henrik, I have no desire to stress you out more in future years, but I have to ask...with the song list expanding from 3000 to 6000, to 10,000, are we due for an album list expansion by decade's end?

Maybe in the 2018 update, but probably not as far as 10,000.
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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Jonathon » Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:20 pm

Henrik wrote:
Jonathon wrote:Henrik, I have no desire to stress you out more in future years, but I have to ask...with the song list expanding from 3000 to 6000, to 10,000, are we due for an album list expansion by decade's end?

Maybe in the 2018 update, but probably not as far as 10,000.


I always figured a bigger album list would be problematic, as you'd start to run into a lot of hit albums that by and large, were not critically acclaimed, but one or two critics liked them (Like Creed's Human Clay or something.) At that point it ceases to represent true acclaim and just becomes about statistical noise.

Still as a huge fan of late 90s-early 00s American indie rock, albums like Bonnie "Prince" Billy, Yo La Tengo, and The Flaming Lips with 4-5 bubblers a piece would receive a massive boost if their bubblers became ranked albums. Thus I've always been hoping for that.

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Nassim » Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:14 am

The album update has ups and downs for me but that song list sees so many personal favorite go down and very few nice (for me) surprises.

Nice to see some surprising omissions finally make it to the list though: September, Rainy Day Women, Child in Time, Walk on by, Gimme Danger, Barbara Ann, La Foule, Polly, Let there be Rock, Dreadlock Holiday, Takeover, J'ai Deux Amours, No ufo's, Babe I'm Gonna Leave You, Water No Get Enemy, Pas Assez de toi, Indian Summer and a bunch of others have to be present when you talk about the greatest songs of all time (also surprised a song as a'themic as New York, New York only shows up now)
Also happy to see Emily and Broken Heart which are 2 lovely songs... Too bad all those new (pre 2014) entries start with the Final Countdown and ends with How You Remind Me...

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Re: ACCLAIMED MUSIC'S INOFFICIAL UPDATE 2016

Postby Sweepstakes Ron » Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:43 pm

Last year's update, Joni Mitchell's only song in the top 1000 was "Big Yellow Taxi", which I don't see as a fair testament to her musical prowess in terms of both writing and performance. It's still her top song, but she's got two other, better songs in the top 1000 now, so it's less of a shame.
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