2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Who are you voting for in 2016 U.S. Presidential Election?

Poll ended at Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:50 pm

Donald Trump
3
17%
Hillary Clinton
9
50%
Gary Johnson
2
11%
Jill Stein
3
17%
Evan McMullin
0
No votes
Other
1
6%
 
Total votes: 18

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prosecutorgodot
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2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby prosecutorgodot » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:50 pm

I know this is really late, but I saw some passionate comments in the MA thread, so I thought I would make a space where people could vent. :whistle: Voting day is tomorrow!
I want the poll to be for United States people only, but if you are outside the country and have strong feelings, I am very interested to hear your thoughts in the comments.

Who are you voting for?
Hillary Clinton (Democratic)
Gary Johnson (Libertarian)
Evan McMullin (Independent)
Jill Stein (Green)
Donald Trump (Republican)

If you vote "Other", you better say who it is and why!

This poll closes around 11am Pacific Time on Wednesday. hahahahaha
Hang on folks, it's going to be a bumpy ride!

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby prosecutorgodot » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:56 pm

I submitted my absentee ballot a couple of weeks ago. I voted Jill Stein, because I like neither Trump nor Clinton. You can claim I'm helping Trump or whatever. I just kind of want to change the election system, and my way of doing that is to vote third party. If I had a gun to my head to vote either Trump or Clinton, I would vote Clinton.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby BleuPanda » Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:13 pm

I voted for Clinton. While I would love to see something outside our current two-party dichotomy, I'm not sure any of the current third parties will actually ever get anywhere. Jill Stein has some bizarre beliefs and Gary Johnson has proven to be pretty clueless, and I feel like they look like better options simply because they don't get the media scrutiny of the mainstream candidates; I think John Oliver's segment did a good job summing it up. I think our best chance from an outsiders' perspective is to keep infiltrating the main parties; Bernie Sanders has shown that the best way to defeat the two-party system is at the primary level.

Really, as someone from Illinois, my presidential vote doesn't mean much, but I sure was happy to vote for Duckworth.
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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby Pierre » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:48 pm

You guys please don't repeat the drama of last time people talked politics on this board. Clinton and Trump seem to be very polarizing characters and I hope contributors will keep their passion in check this time.

As an European, I can't vote even though I feel directly concerned by the outcome of this election. And as a person with a very thorough education in economics, social sciences and history (yeah, the path to become a professional translator is sometimes tortuous, or more probably it's only my life which is so) I'm inclined toward Clinton, if it's of any importance. Whatever. You America just go out and vote.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby BleuPanda » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:08 pm

If I could begin to be, half of what you think of me,
I could do about anything, I could even learn how to love.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby Nick » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:01 pm

I'm voting for Clinton. I have serious issues with her as a candidate. There's her pathological commitment to secrecy, her vote for the Iraq war, her email controversy, the allegations of pay to play, and her decades long history of telling bold lie after bold lie, all of which make me not too fond of her as a candidate.

But on the other hand, Trump is calling for gross human rights violations. He's called for a blanket ban on Muslims entering the US. He's called for mass surveillance of mosques and as hinted at creating a database for Muslims. He's talked about suing publications that dare speak ill of him for libel, a gross violation of our first amendment. He talks about bringing back waterboarding and "much worse" forms of torture. He supports the racist and unconstitutional policy of stop and frisk. He talks about ordering the military to commit war crimes by killing the innocent family members of suspected terrorists. And his running mate, Mike Pence signed the Religious Freedom Restoration Act into law when he was governor of Indiana, which made it legal for businesses to discriminate against the LGBT community.

There's also his total lack of knowledge of anything policy related. He wants to repeal Obamacare (a program that I have some issues with myself), but has no plan to replace it. He claims that he "knows more than all of the generals" do about fighting ISIS, but has refused to disclose a solid plan on beating that threat. He's made building an enormous border wall to separate Mexico from the US a major focal point of his campaign, even when such wall would cost around 25 billion dollars and do very little to stop illegal immigration (roughly half of all illegal immigrants in the US enter legally).

I simply cannot think of a worse major party candidate in all of American history than Donald Trump. This is a man who can't even control himself on Twitter, how is he supposed to control our nuclear arsenal?

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby Nick » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:03 pm

And yeah, if this is a political discussion, let's try and keep it civil. No personal attacks and name calling, etc.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby Henry » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:40 pm

I am also voting for Clinton. She was not my preferred candidate in 2008 and I prefer some of the policies advocated by Bernie Sanders, but I do not think that Sanders would be able to move forward on many (if any) of his proposals if were to be elected with a republican (GOP) congress.

When I discuss politics with those who tend to view our situation differently, I prefer to keep the discussion civil. I expect that it will be possible to do so in this forum.

My focus recently has been on the plague of bias confirmation that afflicts all partisans, especially those who are less analytical in their approach to learning and politics.

I agree with Nick that Trump has almost no understanding of most of the key issues that most be addressed by the next president and he also has demonstrated no interest in learning about these issues. Combined with his authoritarian tendencies, he is very distasteful to me. I am also concerned about the Russian hacking and attempts to influence our election. I request that our European forum members comment on the news reports we have seen in the US about Russian meddling in French and German elections.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby Henry » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:42 pm

If you live in California, you don't need to worry about Clinton's ability to win this state. 538 has California as a complete lock for Clinton, with a likelihood of her victory here being > 99.9%.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby jamieW » Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:40 am

This will likely be the only post I make in this thread because this has been such a devastatingly depressing experience for me, so I try not to dwell on it. As others have already expressed, I’m not the biggest Hillary Clinton fan, but I was still hoping she’d win the primary since I believed Bernie Sanders (who is more aligned with my personal beliefs) was too far left to defeat Donald Trump – and I fully understood from the beginning how high the stakes were here.

To me, Donald Trump represents everything that’s wrong with America: hatred, bigotry, selfishness, greed, a complete lack of empathy for others, and an appalling lack of respect for women. The fact that he’s made it this far, even if he loses, I’ll never look at this country the same again, especially since I know nearly half the people actually believe he should be President, which boggles the mind. I look at it this way: we have one candidate who is qualified and sane, but does have her scandals with Benghazi, the Clinton Foundation, and the e-mails. (Dear Lord, am I ever sick of that last one – the most overblown “scandal” since Deflategate.).

And then we have a candidate whose sanity, at the very least, can be seriously questioned, and who has no political experience whatsoever. (For those supporters who think this is a good thing, I’d like to have them ask somebody with no surgical experience to perform open heart surgery the next time they need it. If this seems an exaggeration, consider that, for just one, rational diplomacy is a necessity when it comes to international politics, especially when nuclear weapons are involved.) Now add in the fact that this candidate has also threatened preventing the very immigration our country is based upon, mass deportation and the breakup of families, labels Mexicans as drug dealers and rapists, mocks the physically handicapped, brags about sexually assaulting women (then threatens to sue the women who come forward to claim his assertion is true), states he may not accept the election result because it is “rigged” against him, claims the FBI’s investigation is also rigged – then not as rigged as he thought – then rigged again, hints at the assassination of Clinton by the “second amendment” people, incites violence against protestors at his rallies, will not release his tax returns, claims to give to charities when evidence proves otherwise, used tax loopholes to avoid paying federal income tax for nearly two decades (and then blames the government for not changing these so he couldn’t take advantage of them), had a rape accusation against him by a girl who was 13 at the time (and for those who think mere “accusations” aren’t important, what has ever been proven against Hillary?), throws temper tantrums like a two year old, has had multiple bankruptcies, has had thousands of lawsuits against him (many still pending), and lies essentially every time he opens his mouth , and then lies about the lies, even when they’re caught on tape. (And this is just the list off the top of my head. I’m sure I’m forgetting plenty.) The better option seems like simple math to me, but maybe I’m missing something…

Donald Trump is a combination of a cult leader and a con-artist, and the fact that so many Americans believe everything he says, regardless of how outlandish or offensive, makes me physically sick. There is absolutely nothing about his record to make one believe he would do anything to help those supporting him – quite the opposite. His “policies” are ridiculously unrealistic (i.e.: Mexico paying for “The Wall”) and he gives no actual information on how he’ll go about them. (For example: he’ll repeal Obamacare and replace it with something “terrific.”) Basically, his entire campaign comes down to a banal slogan: “Make America Great Again!” And people fall for it.

Is there a need for an outsider to come in and clean up politics as we know it? Definitely, and I pray we get that person someday. But let’s keep some perspective here. An unhinged person spewing hate is not a preferable option to a career politician – regardless of how angry you are with the system. This isn’t Jimmy Stewart in “Mr. Smith Goes To Washington;” this is a person who has shown he’s even more unethical than the politicians so many despise. The scariest thing for me is that, if he gets elected, could we ever get him out? He’s already said he may not accept the election results. What’s to keep him from saying that the corrupt establishment is trying to remove him from office, and urging his gun-wielding flock to rise up and support him? I don’t want our country launched into a second Civil War – we’re already divided enough as it is, and Trump has done nothing but divide us more for his own narcissistic self-interest. I’m hoping that, after tomorrow, our country can attempt to come together again, but my greatest fear is that the damage has been done and we won't ever be the same again.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby prosecutorgodot » Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:34 am

jamieW wrote:I’m not the biggest Hillary Clinton fan, but I was still hoping she’d win the primary since I believed Bernie Sanders (who is more aligned with my personal beliefs) was too far left to defeat Donald Trump – and I fully understood from the beginning how high the stakes were here.

Hmmm I've always thought Bernie Sanders would have a better chance of beating Trump than Clinton would. Sanders places himself as a populist candidate like Trump does (I'd say they're similar in plenty of respects besides the obvious Sanders love vs. Trump hate), and people don't hate Sanders like they do Clinton. And Sanders probably has the least scandalous baggage of the three (and maybe of all the candidates).

jamieW wrote:To me, Donald Trump represents everything that’s wrong with America: hatred, bigotry, selfishness, greed, a complete lack of empathy for others, and an appalling lack of respect for women.

To that last part, female Trump supporters would reply, "That's just how men are." I'm wondering, is it just an American thing? Is is just a conservative thing? Probably none of us here should give a diagnosis, but I still wonder. I wish there was a study on this.

Also, I've heard Trump is similar to Boris Johnson in the UK, I wonder if any British members of the forum have any thoughts on that?

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby bootsy » Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:57 am

Voted for Clinton. As much as I can't stand her, Trump is worse. I hate politics for the most part. That's pretty much all I have to say on this topic.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby Pierre » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:35 am

Henry wrote:I am also concerned about the Russian hacking and attempts to influence our election. I request that our European forum members comment on the news reports we have seen in the US about Russian meddling in French and German elections.


I haven't heard anything about Russian trying to hack the results of French elections, but I think I remember such stuff about the last German ones, although there has been no further reporting on the subject since then. However, there's a widely vehiculated idea that Russians support the French nationalist party, the Front National, by giving them funds in particular, as the FN has episodically benefitted from loans from Russian banks (which is proven) because in their own terms "the French banks won't loan them money, because of the elites conspiracy against them, blah blah blah". The reasons are limpid: Russians support the current surge of nationalist parties in Europe because they want to destroy the European Union, which is perceived as the biggest obstacle to Putin's imperialistic tendencies in the Old World.

However, the uneducated low-class tends to dismiss this as conspiracy theories from the media, as there's an unhealthy fascination among them for the perceived "charismatic leadership" of Putin and the now well-rooted idea that the FN is the voice of the "forgotten ones of the French society" against the other oligarchic dominant parties, even though it's clear even to them that the economic program of the FN is dangerous and silly. These are worrying times for republicans and democrats (in the generic sense of these terms) in the Western world.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby DocBrown » Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:53 am

Thank you all, for keeping it civil. That seems to have been near impossible in this polarized electoral climate.

I am not generally an optimist but I am strangely convinced that this election will be a Democratic landslide. I have been obsessively refreshing the polls for days and I know that all indications point to a cliffhanger, but I think that the basic decency and respectfulness of the average American will keep traditional Republicans home who are simply unable to hold their noses and vote for a candidate whose shortcomings are well enumerated by JamieW (president is not an entry level position). At the same time, progressive voters, and some deplorables (I'm sorry) are standing in four hour lines to exercise their franchise.

Here's my overly optimistic prediction.

Clinton ~335 EV
Senate 52/48 Democrats
House 229/206 Republican

Which would be enough to perhaps break the obstructionist deadlock that has bedeviled America for the past six years.

This has been the third election in two years to keep me awake at night. In Alberta we had a three way race in a deeply conservative province where the centre left option unseated a 44 year incumbency. In Canada there was the come from behind victory of the Liberals just over a year ago. I am counting on my American neighbours (or I guess that should be neighbors) to make this a threepeat for progressive voters.

Which reminds me of the words that Justin Trudeau included for his defeated rivals a year ago, and I paraphrase: "The Conservatives are not our enemies, they are our neighbours." I hope and trust that my American friends will be able to put this horrible divisive campaign behind them and embrace their rivals tomorrow. I don't mean to over-dramatize it but I think the future of this great experiment in democracy hangs in the balance.

If you are a well-meaning Trump supporter, I thank you for your support of the democratic process and I have confidence that you will stand behind your president regardless of the outcome.

Good luck.
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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby DocBrown » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:18 am

One more thought; I was somewhat dismayed by the selection of Clinton as the Democratic standard bearer, but I made an effort to read everything I could about her since the convention, good and bad. One benefit of being a Canadian is that our media actually attempts to be "fair and balanced" and often succeeds, so I was not particularly predisposed to believe that Clinton was a lying, self-serving warhawk.

My conclusion is that Hillary Clinton is in fact an outstanding candidate for the job. Her record of public service is unmatched, her reputation for self-dealing is largely undeserved and her poise under the unremitting attacks of the right for more than twenty years is remarkable. While I can certainly see why progressive voters have reservations about her, there is simply no evidence that she is anywhere near as dangerous as her opponent.

All of the mud that has been thrown at Clinton in a lifetime under public scrutiny and the worst that sticks is that some random distant gunfire was misinterpreted as a sniper attack? That she was unable to protect an ambassador to a hostile country who against his superiors advice left the safety of the embassy for Benghazi? That she deleted her e-mails? Come on, man.

Americans have to demand more of their almost broken political system, but they also have to demand more of their once glorious press. There is no equivalency between the shortcomings of these two candidates.
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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby DocBrown » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:47 am

"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." Heather Heyer, hero (1985-2017)

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby Dan » Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:39 pm

prosecutorgodot wrote:I've heard Trump is similar to Boris Johnson in the UK, I wonder if any British members of the forum have any thoughts on that?


I have both British and South African citizenship and have lived in the UK for most of my adult life, so I guess I’m partially eligible to answer that question. I can see why the two of them are sometimes compared to each other. Johnson was the key political figure in the Brexit referendum. He was very persuasive in making people believe that there existed such a thing as solidary “Britishness,” and that a more isolated Britain would be better than a more inclusive one (a bit like Trump telling his followers that America could be great again without the Muslims and Mexicans; however, Johnson definitely didn’t have nearly the same racist rhetoric as Trump has been displaying).

And (despite both Trump and Johnson having enjoyed considerable wealth for most of their lives) both men somehow managed to appeal to what commentators like to refer to as “badly treated and forgotten working class people”. I’ve never liked how financially struggling “working class” people are all put in the same camp, as if to say they all have exactly the same views, but I can understand how people who find themselves in difficult financial and social situations might be bitter about the state of things and want improvement. However, Johnson’s promises about a better life for working class people after the Brexit vote are proving to be empty and misleading, and I can’t imagine Trump faring any better.

In a post a few days ago I referred to Donald Trump as a “clown”. I’m sorry to resort to such unhelpful name-calling, but this brings me to another reason why Johnson and Trump are sometimes compared: people from other countries often see both as clowns/jesters. Both of these jesters have played a dangerous game, but as enormously impactful as Johnson’s game was, it doesn’t feel nearly as dangerous as Trump’s. If Johnson is/was the silly jester who pisses people off, then Trump is the killer clown. Even here in pro-Brexit Britain, people are amazed and shocked at how Americans could want such a deplorable person to be the leader of their country (and I daresay most people in Western Europe feel the same way). Despite Hillary Clinton’s many flaws, I simply can’t believe that she poses a danger to the future of the world. At the moment, I can’t say the same about Trump.

But, like DocBrown, I’m hoping that American decency will prevail. That wonderful American decency is surely bigger than Trump. In fact, as someone who hopes that the world will become a kinder, more accepting and more inclusive place, I need it to prevail. A Clinton win would be a lovely early Christmas present instead of the nightmare before Christmas. If she doesn’t win, then Canada, as was the case after the Brexit referendum, brace yourselves for an influx of immigrants, lol.
Let's make this a good year.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby prosecutorgodot » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:29 pm

As everyone is saying, thank you for keeping level-headed! I estimate there are around 8 hours til results start rolling in.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby BleuPanda » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:40 pm

If I could begin to be, half of what you think of me,
I could do about anything, I could even learn how to love.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby Pierre » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:53 pm

BleuPanda wrote:An important update:
http://www.theonion.com/article/tim-kai ... lot--54630


This is nightfall over here in Europe and my stress levels about the results of the election are at an all-time high. I haven't felt so stressed by politics since the French nationalists threatened to take over some regions during our last elections here. Still, although silly, this article made me smile, which has been rare enough a feat in recent days that I feel I have to thank you, BleuPanda.

Not going to sleep well tonight, though.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby BleuPanda » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:48 pm

http://www.clickhole.com/article/power-unity-trump-supporter-and-clinton-supporter--5120


The Onion and its affiliated Clickhole are always a good source of brief relief during times like these.
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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby Honorio » Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:38 pm


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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby Maschine_Man » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:58 pm

I personally find it a depressing idea that the first woman elected as President is the wife of a former President. I don't find that aspect very progressive at all, and in fact is yet another blow for "Democratic" America.

(I'm the one who voted other, btw, as I didn't want to skew the results)

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby notbrianeno » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:58 am

Although my primary candidate (Sen. Bernie Sanders), and my dream candidate (Vice President Joe Biden), are not the democratic nominees, I'm tremendously optimistic about voting for Hillary Clinton. Though I have a few qualms with her voting record, her experience in the federal government and foreign policy, and lifelong devotion to affordable healthcare are invaluable, especially compared with her opponents. Cautiously optimistic about tonights results.
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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby BleuPanda » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:21 am

I know it was pretty much a guarantee, but Duckworth won!
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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby prosecutorgodot » Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:56 am

It's not looking good, guys. The New York Times has Trump at 92% chance of winning, and FiveThirtyEight has him somewhere around 50%. I don't think there will be riots, especially not where I live, but I am getting extremely paranoid...

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby prosecutorgodot » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:38 am

It's essentially over. Unless Clinton pulls off a comeback in Wisconsin and Michigan, which is unlikely.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby BleuPanda » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:39 am

I love this new version of America, where I have to do things like wonder if I'll actually still be able to get married in June.
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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby notbrianeno » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:44 am

Listening to The Fame Monster and trying to summon my gay powers to defeat Trump
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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby DocBrown » Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:47 am

I have never been more spectacularly wrong; back to pessimism.

I fear for everyone who lives within 2 metres of sea level because we just lost the climate change war.

Edit: As an environmental scientist, this was my first thought last night, as we have already run out of time on this issue and the Paris accords were our last chance to avoid an extinction event. Really.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... ransition/

I find it interesting that Trump's three homes (Manhattan, Mar-a-Lago, and soon the White House) will all be underwater by the second half of the century without massive seawalls. I guess Trump really will put working class Americans back to work... filling sandbags.
Last edited by DocBrown on Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby Pierre » Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:05 am

The American Dream is turning into an American Nightmare. Dark ages are ahead. My only hope is that Republicans in the Senate and the Chambers will keep the monster they created in check.

I'm in an extreme state of depression right now and I don't really know how I'm going to go through the coming days, let alone years. I definitely don't have the temper for the world I'm apparently going to live in.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby PlasticRam » Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:25 am

Pierre wrote:The American Dream is turning into an American Nightmare. Dark ages are ahead. My only hope is that Republicans in the Senate and the Chambers will keep the monster they created in check.

They're the ones against gay marriage though. Trump is cool with gay marriage. I know that's just one point, but still.

Edit: Fair enough.

Edit: I did some research and apparently Trump has been for traditional marriage for the most of his life and, more importantly, is gonna pick conservative Supreme Court judges which in the long run could harm gay rights. So it is a complex issue and I was a bit ignorant of this particular issue. I apologise.

Edit: But I've also seen some statements that would imply he's cool with gay marriage. I really think it would be the Supreme Court or the Republican House or Senate that would be the problem, not Trump.
Last edited by PlasticRam on Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:35 pm, edited 5 times in total.
I feel like that

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby Pierre » Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:43 am

PlasticRam wrote:
Pierre wrote:The American Dream is turning into an American Nightmare. Dark ages are ahead. My only hope is that Republicans in the Senate and the Chambers will keep the monster they created in check.

They're the ones against gay marriage though. Trump is cool with gay marriage. I know that's just one point, but still.


I'm not talking about this point in particular.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby BleuPanda » Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:37 pm

If I could begin to be, half of what you think of me,
I could do about anything, I could even learn how to love.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby DocBrown » Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:56 pm

Ironically, if I were Hillary Clinton, this would be a wonderful day. After fifty years of social activism, of fighting for kids and women, of taking daily abuse in the media, today she can begin a well-deserved retirement. If I were Hillary I'd start the day with a room service breakfast, schedule a spa afternoon with Chelsea and Huma, purge my Blackberry mail lists and talk to Bill about maybe wintering in Monte Carlo this year. If you ask me, Hillary is the only American who may have won last night.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." Heather Heyer, hero (1985-2017)

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby Honorio » Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:49 pm

Damn 2016! In June Mariano Rajoy and his corrupt party won the elections in Spain. Also in June the UK left the European Union. In October Colombia rejected the peace deal with the FARC. And now this. If people insist on committing so many mistakes with their votes I'm going to lose my faith on democracy. Please stop the world, I want to get off.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby Henrik » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:35 pm

This is a minor comfort (but at least relevant for this forum), difficult times often bring great songwriting and music. Let's hope for the best, with that and everything.

Thanks everyone for keeping the discussion civil.
Everyone you meet fights a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. Always.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby BleuPanda » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:46 pm

Henrik wrote:This is a minor comfort (but at least relevant for this forum), difficult times often bring great songwriting and music. Let's hope for the best, with that and everything.

Thanks everyone for keeping the discussion civil.



The first thing I did after realizing this was actually going to Trump was install my screenwriting software on my new computer. I haven't written in several months, but this has galvanized me.
If I could begin to be, half of what you think of me,
I could do about anything, I could even learn how to love.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby Gillingham » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:51 pm

Ouch! Was still mildly optimistic when I went to bed at 3.00 (Netherlands). Slept well, but was appalled after reading the results, as everybody is around here.
Anyway, although this result really is upsetting in too many ways, I won't let this take away my positive view of life.
But still, what now?

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby prosecutorgodot » Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:37 pm

Oh wells, life goes on.

I'm a bit iffy with the improved songwriting thing. Could get worse actually.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby Maschine_Man » Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:51 pm

DocBrown wrote:talk to Bill about maybe wintering in Monte Carlo this year.

More like serve him divorce papers :whistle:


What a surreal day.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby Nassim » Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:02 pm

The rise of conservatism and nationalism over the western countries is very worrying and depressing, a horrible surprise in next year's French presidential election seems even more likely today.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby DocBrown » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:46 am

I just closed my PayPal account to protest Peter Thiel's 7-figure donation to the Trump campaign. It gave me a little thrill of satisfaction although I know it also eliminates my participation in certain on-line markets. What gave me the idea in fact was the expiration of my RYM subscription. I also sent Sharifi an email encouraging him to add other payment options, as BandCamp, for example, recently did (thank goodness).

I know this seems like a small and meaningless protest, but I encourage others who feel the same to consider and share ways of expressing your discontent with Trump and his supporters. I'm sure none of us would ever be so tacky as to stay at a Trump property (see http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/foo ... ice=mobile ) or waste your time with "The Apprentice" but what other ways can we express our contempt in the only way Trump understands?

If you do want to boycott Trump and his fellow travelers, make sure you let him know. I am not a tweeter since I can't express anything in less than 140 characters, but perhaps someone with Twitter skills can start #BoycottBuffoons? Or #TankTrump?

Sorry to use AMF to pursue my personal hobby horse, but I am so upset I feel the need to take some action to take control of my rage.

Edit: I am reading on-line about real protests going on across America tonight; 1000 peaceful protesters outside each of the Chicago and New York Trump buildings chanting "not my president"; 2000 marchers in Portland, Oregon briefly taking over the I-5. These all appear to be violence free except one ugly incident with a skateboard, quickly defused.

If you are despairing this may help.
http://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown ... well-go-on
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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby PlasticRam » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:10 am

I think it's absolutely deplorable to boycott his supporters over this. Peter Thiel I can understand cos he's rich, but just regular people?

Edit: I hope I misunderstood Doc's post, which I might've. idk what 'fellow travelers' means.

Also peaceful protests are fine in my book.
I feel like that

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby DocBrown » Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:36 pm

PlasticRam wrote:I think it's absolutely deplorable to boycott his supporters over this. Peter Thiel I can understand cos he's rich, but just regular people?

Edit: I hope I misunderstood Doc's post, which I might've. idk what 'fellow travelers' means.

Also peaceful protests are fine in my book.



As I wrote to Peter Thiel, I find it unbelievable that an openly gay man would give millions to elect someone who openly threatens the First Amendment.

As for economically sanctioning small businesses, let me give you a small example. I live in a predominantly Muslim neighbourhood; we have the city's only Islamic K-12 school, several mosques, Halal butchers and mid-Eastern bakeries so of course Muslim families gravitate here. A nearby mall, not in this neighborhood but offering regional services, has a sign in the windo.w of a dry-cleaners that refuses service to anyone with a face covering. You see a lot of those signs at Halloween but this is everyday. He is not afraid of robberies (which are quite rare in Canada anyway). He's afraid of women in burqas. Although he's located right across from my bank, I'll take my shirts elsewhere to be pressed (that's a joke; I've worn a dress shirt once in the past five years).

Similarly if I saw a stack of MAGA hats outside a shop I'd take my business to the next shop.

"Fellow travelers" was an ironic joke; back in the McCarthy era a fellow traveler was thinly disguised code for a communist supporter; Bernie would have been labelled a fellow traveler at the time. If you ever want to learn how unlikely Nixon's election SHOULD have been, look up the prosecution of Alger Hiss, which led to his (Nixon) political ascension.

While you have a good point that there are limits to how far you should pursue a boycott, economic sanctions are a proven tool to influence social behaviour. At this point the Trump brand should be toxic to progressives, and if he is supported by business people, telling them that their active public stance to attack my values has cost them my patronage is my most effective protest.

So no, I don't think you misunderstood me. We simply sit at different points on the political spectrum. Fortunately we're both on the good music spectrum (although we also disagree on Kanye) so we can continue to find common ground here at Acclaimed Music.

Edit: their=》there.

Second edit: here is an excellent article from Slate on other ways to channel your anger
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... ction.html
Last edited by DocBrown on Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby PlasticRam » Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:56 pm

You make some good points. Politically we see things from different angles, and I think that's partially cos of our context, I mean if I lived in a Muslim neighbourhood I would become saddened if I saw discrimination from up close. As it is, I only rarely see any kind of discrimination towards minorities, in real life.

A policy of Trump's is that he's gonna cut the corporate tax rate from 35% to 15%, so I think business people would like that. Not that it's directly relevant to your points, but I just thought of that.
I feel like that

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby BleuPanda » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:26 pm

One thing I really hope Democrats wake up to next time around is that they need to reach out to rural communities; we have this stupid urban/rural dichotomy in this country that I don't think exists in the way we assume. We like to label these regions as racist, and clearly certain communities are, but there are also a majority of communities where social issues clearly have little to no impact on daily experience. I don't think it's an impossible task to get at least a segment of the rural white population in the Midwest to vote Democrat. The problem is that the party on a national level always prioritizes social issues, when at least confronting economic issues in these regions could convince some voters to get out and vote. In the end, it wasn't the South that won this for Trump, it was the Midwest. And as someone from a small Midwestern town, I don't think the blame is as simple as people want to think.

While it's easy to cry 'racism,' we also have to remember many of these states and likely many of the people within went from voting Barack Obama to Donald Trump. We have regions of this country that feel like they're being left behind that simply can't connect to a party that emphasizes social issues, because many of these social issues are entirely foreign to their lives; that doesn't mean there aren't other areas to bridge the gap.
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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby prosecutorgodot » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:57 pm

I don't mean to belittle the serious conversation, but I think Martin Shkreli, the famous AIDS medication villain, has been lo-fi streaming that one-copy Wu-Tang album (he agreed to release it if Trump became president), Once Upon a Time in Shaolin. I haven't done the time trying to find it, but check it out.

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby notbrianeno » Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:14 pm

Still heartbroken, but newly motivated to be more active in volunteering for causes and candidates I support, and hopeful that many others feel the same.
Current AOTY 2017: St. Vincent | MASSEDUCTION
Current SOTY 2017: Björk | "Body Memory"

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

Postby DocBrown » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:10 pm

If you are interested in telling people where you stand, giving to a range of progressive charities and looking good, I just got this offer from 6131 Records. Thought I'd pass it along.

http://us13.campaign-archive2.com/?u=37 ... 57817b2b0c
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." Heather Heyer, hero (1985-2017)


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