Do you agree with this?

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letmeintomyzone
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Do you agree with this?

Post by letmeintomyzone »

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Nassim
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Re: Do you agree with this?

Post by Nassim »

Well yes, I agree that Ocarina of time is a videogame, the sopranos a TV show, Pet Sounds an album, Citizen Kane a movie, Watchmen a comic and Ulysses a book. No objection.
I think the black lines painted with Paint are ugly and should at least be vertical or horizontal, but I'm not sure that's really disagreeing.
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Maschine_Man
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Re: Do you agree with this?

Post by Maschine_Man »

Nassim wrote:Well yes, I agree that Ocarina of time is a videogame, the sopranos a TV show, Pet Sounds an album, Citizen Kane a movie, Watchmen a comic and Ulysses a book. No objection.
I think the black lines painted with Paint are ugly and should at least be vertical or horizontal, but I'm not sure that's really disagreeing.
This is the reason we need a 'Best of AMF' thread. :D
Jirin
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Re: Do you agree with this?

Post by Jirin »

If we're talking about "Most critically loved", wouldn't the original Super Mario Bros be considered the transformative classic? It tops lists more often than Ocarina of Time and it's considered to have set the standard for gameplay and level design.
letmeintomyzone
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Re: Do you agree with this?

Post by letmeintomyzone »

Jirin wrote:If we're talking about "Most critically loved", wouldn't the original Super Mario Bros be considered the transformative classic? It tops lists more often than Ocarina of Time and it's considered to have set the standard for gameplay and level design.
Yeah. Do you agree with the other picks? I'm kind of debating to change the comic one, but I dunno what.
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Re: Do you agree with this?

Post by Jirin »

I agree that Citizen Kane and Sopranos are held up as the critical gold standard of their medium. Album I might go with Revolver, but Pet Sounds is definitely at the top of the conversation. I know nothing about comics so can't give insight to Watchmen.

I don't know about Ulysses, I might go with 1984.
letmeintomyzone
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Re: Do you agree with this?

Post by letmeintomyzone »

Jirin wrote:I agree that Citizen Kane and Sopranos are held up as the critical gold standard of their medium. Album I might go with Revolver, but Pet Sounds is definitely at the top of the conversation. I know nothing about comics so can't give insight to Watchmen.

I don't know about Ulysses, I might go with 1984.
Why 1984?
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Re: Do you agree with this?

Post by Nassim »

From a French perspective, Ulysses stands out. The others, if you talk about people passionate by the medium, would be if not considered THE best at least at the top of the discussion but Ulysses while a probably inclusion in a top 100 list would probably not be considered very top material.
It's hard to find a lot of list, but on 1999 it was elected 28th of the century (though it was from a poll, not a critics list). It was mostly topped by French books but top non French ones were from Hemingway, Steinbeck and Kafka. At the end of the line I'd expect the discussion to center mostly around Le Petit Prince by Saint-Exupéry, L'Etranger by Camus, Voyage au bout de la nuit by Céline and some Proust or Kafka book. And that's just 20th century, on an all time poll, it ended 85th which is around where I'd expect it in discussions in France. The discussion would most likely go around Flaubert, Baudelaire (if poetry is included), Hugo (Les Misérables is a likely pick), Dostoïevski, Tolstoi or a aforementioned writer from the XXth.

There is also a list from 2002 by writers from all around the world, Ulysses is top 100 but n°1 was Don Quixote (as wikipedia puts it : The books selected by this process and listed here are not ranked or categorized in any way; the organizers have stated that "they are all on an equal footing," with the exception of Don Quixote which was given the distinction "best literary work ever written.")
What the few lists emphasizes in any case is that polls tend to favor books in the same language as the voters, much more than in other medium.

I'd also say the discussion would be a bit different here about comics.
We tend to use 3 different words for the media :
- comics for US comic (or anything with super heroes)
- manga for japanese comic (or anything in the style)
- bande-dessinée for european comic
Can lead to some confusion, as Maus could be considered because of its topic more of a bande-dessinée than a comics around here. Things like Garfield or Disney comics would also be considered bande-dessinées more than comics...
Anyway, if you limit to our definition of comics as US comic about super-heroes, sure, there's pretty much nothing that remotely compares with Watchmen. If you talk about the whole comic spectrum, I'm pretty sure some Tintin would win and others (Astérix, Akira, La Marque Jaune (Blake and Mortimer), le chat du rabbin, some Gaston Lagaffe, les Idées Noires, Rubriques à Brac, Maus, Little Nemo in Slumberland...) would give Watchmen a run for its money.
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Re: Do you agree with this?

Post by Gillingham »

I would actually say Ulysses is generally the most agreed upon by critics, possibly together with Citizen Kane. (Not coincidentally the two oldest media of these six)

But these top picks are not very interesting, unless we relate them to our own choices. Personally, I don't agree with any of them and none of them are even close, although I can't say much, if anything, about comics, haven't really played Zelda and didn't read all of Ulysses (which is a long term project for me)

Anyway, my picks:
Book: Cormac McCarthy - Blood Meridian or the Evening Redness in the West
Film: Apocalypse Now
Album: Radiohead - In Rainbows
Comics: -
TV Show: The Wire
Videogame: Half-Life and it's add-ons
jimmyj
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Re: Do you agree with this?

Post by jimmyj »

Gillingham wrote:I would actually say Ulysses is generally the most agreed upon by critics, possibly together with Citizen Kane. (Not coincidentally the two oldest media of these six)

But these top picks are not very interesting, unless we relate them to our own choices. Personally, I don't agree with any of them and none of them are even close, although I can't say much, if anything, about comics, haven't really played Zelda and didn't read all of Ulysses (which is a long term project for me)

Anyway, my picks:
Book: Cormac McCarthy - Blood Meridian or the Evening Redness in the West
Film: Apocalypse Now
Album: Radiohead - In Rainbows
Comics: -
TV Show: The Wire
Videogame: Half-Life and it's add-ons
I will play, my picks:
Book: Don Quixote
Film: Godfather
Album: Abbey Road
Comics: Sin City
TV Show: Breaking Bad
Videogame: GTA series. I will go with Vice City as top.
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Re: Do you agree with this?

Post by Jirin »

If we're getting to our own personal favorites and not talking about critics consensus.

Book: Roberto Bolano - 2666
Film: Bicycle Thieves
Album: Are You Experienced?
TV show: Twin Peaks
Video game: Final Fantasy Tactics
Nassim
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Re: Do you agree with this?

Post by Nassim »

Gillingham wrote:I would actually say Ulysses is generally the most agreed upon by critics, possibly together with Citizen Kane. (Not coincidentally the two oldest media of these six)
Is it though outside of the US ? I can only be sure of the French outlook, but while lists about albums, videogames, tv shows or movies made by critics in France would be relatively similar to one done in the US, with the ones cited here likely within the top 5, I feel that books lists would be massively different ; maybe partly because books lose more in translation than other mediums and because we are very very very proud of our litterary heritage.

Ulysses is considered a classic here too though ; the difference of point of view would be much different for other books like Atlas Shrugged (first official full French translation arrived in France in 2011, but the booked is hated by left right critics, kinda liked by left wing and considered "a good window into the American point of view" for others), To Kill a Mockingbird (liked but I don't think considered a major book... might not helped that it has been translated with 3 different names already), Catch-22 or The Catcher in the Rye (ok, maybe that one is just me, hated that book).
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Re: Do you agree with this?

Post by Nick »

For most critically acclaimed? That seems about right. Maybe swap out "Ulysses" with "Don Quixote" though, as "Don Quixote" has more than 400 years worth of acclaim while "Ulysses" doesn't even have 100 (both are great books though).

As for my own favorites...

Book- David Foster Wallace- Infinite Jest
Comic- I've barely read any comics. "Watchmen" was great though.
Film- Pulp Fiction
TV Show- Breaking Bad
Album- The Beatles- Revolver
Video Game- Metroid Prime
Jirin
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Re: Do you agree with this?

Post by Jirin »

I must admit I've never read Ulysses but all the people I hung out with in high school who had read it seemed to feel it was overrated. It's in a group of things like Wasteland which were considered a step forward in modernist literary form in the taste-forming period of the 20s and 30s.

Speaking of which, shouldn't poetry and theater be included in this list?

I've also seen Great Gatsby toward the top of a whole lot of lists. I would have said 1984 because it's the highest acclaimed novel based on content rather than form.

And if you consider worldwide views instead of eurocentric a whole new world opens up.
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whuntva
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Re: Do you agree with this?

Post by whuntva »

I think the Wire may hold a teeny-weeny bit more prestige than the Sopranos. Also, Ocarina of time now I think is more respected than liked, but maybe Metroid or FFVII could contend for title of "greatest ever" moreso than Ocarina.


Favorites:

Book: Daniel Quinn -- Ishmael
Comic: The Sandman
Film: WALL-E
TV Show: Primeval
Album: OK Computer
Video Game: To the Moon


Picks for "Defining Examples":

Book: Tale of Genji
Comic: Watchmen
Film: The Wizard of Oz
TV Show: The Wire
Album: Revolver or Pet Sounds
Video Game: Metroid Prime


And what of podcasts? I want an Acclaimed Podcasts list, but that may be just me.
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Re: Do you agree with this?

Post by Jirin »

I think FFVII would only be considered critically most loved game among RPGs.

I disagree about Ocarina of Time being more respected than liked, but it's one of those games like FFVII that it has the greatest reputation among the people for whom it was one of the first games they really got into. People who are a bit older may prefer Link to the Past or FFIV/FFVI and people who are younger may prefer a more modern styled game.

I suppose that's true for any series though, that you form your tastes in the 'first wave for you'. It's kind of true for any medium but more so than others for video games just because the technological gap between early games and later games makes the transition less accessible for people who started with later games. Going from a PS4 game back to an NES game, from the perspective of young kids, probably feels like the transition from sound movies to silent movies.
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ordinaryperson
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Re: Do you agree with this?

Post by ordinaryperson »

I'm late to the party but I'll add my favorites anyways:

Book: Kurt Vonnegut- Slaughterhouse Five
Comic: Scott Pilgrim (Series) (I don't really read comics and I have no idea if this counts.)
Film: Akira
TV Show: Seinfeld
Album: Radiohead- In Rainbows
Video Game: Earthbound

By the way, wasn't there some sort of Acclaimed Music like site for books and the number one novel was In Search of Lost Time by Marcel Proust?

Edit: Found it!
Edit #2: I agree with everything else but from what I hear Maus by Art Spiegelman would be considered the greatest comic book.
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luney6
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Re: Do you agree with this?

Post by luney6 »

Moby Dick could also be a candidate for books, considering that it single handedly spurred modern art. Huck Finn and the Grapes of Wrath would also be great candidates, for how highly regarded they are, and for their own merits. Ulysses has great moments (and its certainly better than Finnegans Wake), but to be fair, it's probably not even Joyce's best book. That would probably be Dubliners.

Kane's great film, but La Dolce Vita, or maybe 2001 a space odyssey would be better contenders.

In album, I think Revolver is a better candidate perhaps, especially since it's a Beatles album.
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Pierre
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Re: Do you agree with this?

Post by Pierre »

Honestly, I don't even see the point of this. Why should someone stick to one work in each artistic medium? Such a set wouldn't even make a worthy "starting point in life" in my opinion. It's way too restrictive.
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Re: Do you agree with this?

Post by Humphrey1 »

It is with great grief that we announce the banning of our dear brother Humphrey18. He was a controversial soul, always wearing a pink sombrero on top of his tuxedo and never eating his parsnips. But still he was a good sport. We will deeply miss his impromptu, a cappella renditions of Mahler's 8th on many a thanksgiving party, keeping us entertained well into the next morning. We wish him all the best on his journey to whoknowswhere and relief from his ongoing diarrhea. We also want to thank everybody in advance for their consolation. We do love you all deeply.

Thanks for your kind attention
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Re: Do you agree with this?

Post by Humphrey6 »

God, I hated that guy...
Gillingham
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Re: Do you agree with this?

Post by Gillingham »

I agree with none of it, though I can't really judge comics.

My favorites
Book: Cormac McCarthy - Blood Meridian of the Evening Redness win the West
Film: Apocalypse Now
TV Show: The Wire or something
Album: Radiohead - In Rainbows
Videogame: Half-Life (and it's off-shoots)
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Re: Do you agree with this?

Post by VacantJoy »

its all subjective...
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