Waiting for the TSPDT update

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Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby BleuPanda » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:02 pm

It should be coming sometime soon and I'm crazy hyped. Anyone else?
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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby Bruno » Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:05 pm

Me too!

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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby bootsy » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:17 am

Yeah I've been on it about 4-5 times a day. Waiting...

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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby Nick » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:03 pm

I'm awaiting the update too. I've been trying to increase my film knowledge by seeing the highest ranked movies on the site that I haven't seen yet. So far the next one up is #24, "The 400 Blows".

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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby Harold » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:18 pm

The update is up! A couple of methodological changes (notably, a softening of the "test-of-time" weighting) have resulted in 54 new entries in the top 1000 (although the vast majority of these are re-entries) and some significant movement within of more recent films. The 1001-2000 list is still unranked, as has been the case for the few years Bill has been providing it.

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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby BleuPanda » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:00 pm

I'm trying to figure out the general placement on the 1001-2000 range; 488 exact positions are known through his director pages. Everything else is vague; The Great Beauty could be anywhere between 1002 and 1999...there are a few spots where I can get more specific, such as Up and A Prophet being in the 1002-1066 range. I wish there were more pieces for me to figure this out.
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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby whuntva » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:11 pm

Just Recently watched "Blowup" to complete the Top 100 (again). It was pretty good. 9/10.

Here's my ranking of all of the Top 100:

http://www.imdb.com/list/ls037531394/
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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby babydoll » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:30 pm

whuntva wrote:Just Recently watched "Blowup" to complete the Top 100 (again). It was pretty good. 9/10.

Here's my ranking of all of the Top 100:

http://www.imdb.com/list/ls037531394/

Okay, buddy, I think we may need to talk about how The Rules of the Game and L'Atalante is infinitely better than Jaws and Pulp Fiction...

Otherwise, interesting list.

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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby Nick » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:38 pm

babydoll wrote:
whuntva wrote:Just Recently watched "Blowup" to complete the Top 100 (again). It was pretty good. 9/10.

Here's my ranking of all of the Top 100:

http://www.imdb.com/list/ls037531394/

Okay, buddy, I think we may need to talk about how The Rules of the Game and L'Atalante is infinitely better than Jaws and Pulp Fiction...

Otherwise, interesting list.


We must be opposites. Pulp Fiction to me is amazing. Jaws is really good. The Rules of the Game is decent. And L'Atalante leaves me really, really cold.

In fact, watching movies like L'Atalante made me almost...exasperated with the critics. It made me suspect that they put too much emphasis on who did it first rather than who did it best. I mean, in the past 80 something years since its release, have there really only been about a dozen movies better than L'Atalante ever made? Have all our advances in camera technology, set design, sound recording, artistic input from other mediums, use of computers, acting technique, and every other aspect of the cinematic experience that's had a chance to grow and evolve in over 8 decades really produced only a handful of movies better than some meandering flick about a dude and his wife on a barge?

And this doesn't mean I'm biased against "older movies". Some of my absolute favorites movies ever made are The Wizard of Oz, City Lights, Modern Times, The Third Man, and Citizen Kane.

But L'Atalante barely kept me awake.

So yeah, I guess it's all a little beyond me.
Last edited by Nick on Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby whuntva » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:39 pm

babydoll wrote:Okay, buddy, I think we may need to talk about how The Rules of the Game and L'Atalante is infinitely better than Jaws and Pulp Fiction...

Otherwise, interesting list.


To me, L'Atlante was good, but I don't see why it's hailed as a masterpiece. It's just...good.
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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby babydoll » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:51 pm

Nick wrote:
babydoll wrote:
whuntva wrote:Just Recently watched "Blowup" to complete the Top 100 (again). It was pretty good. 9/10.

Here's my ranking of all of the Top 100:

http://www.imdb.com/list/ls037531394/

Okay, buddy, I think we may need to talk about how The Rules of the Game and L'Atalante is infinitely better than Jaws and Pulp Fiction...

Otherwise, interesting list.


We must be opposites. Pulp Fiction to me is amazing. Jaws is really good. The Rules of the Game is decent. And L'Atalante leaves me really, really cold.

In fact, watching movies like L'Atalante made me almost...exasperated with the critics. It made me suspect that they put too much emphasis on who did it first rather than who did it best. I mean, in the past 80 something years since its release, have there really only been about a dozen movies better than L'Atalante ever made? Have all our advances in camera technology, set design, sound recording, artistic input from other mediums, use of computers, acting technique, and every other aspect of the cinematic experience that's had a chance to grow and evolve in over 8 decades really produced only a handful of movies better than some meandering flick about a dude and his wife on a barge?

So yeah, I guess it's all a little beyond me.

Interestingly, that's how I feel about Pulp Fiction. I mean, it's beautifully shot, but the story line is severally lacking. It doesn't even touch on the humanist themes of The Rules of the Game and L'Atalante. Nick, you felt nothing about the extraordinary beauty of Dita Parlo in the water? I think, by showing her in the bride's dress and that dazzling smile, Vigo really goes past both words and conventional cinematic expression by showing us an unparalleled moment of humanism. Plus I could write a book on what The Rules of the Game means to both to art and to cinema. After 60 years after those two films were released, it seems Pulp Fiction went backwards. I also think Pulp Fiction is inherently racist, even though it doesn't mean to be, thanks to Tarantino's somewhat misguided notions. (I may be absolutely wrong and probably rightfully demolished for this, but it's honestly how I feel about it.)

I think Jaws may be Steven Spielberg's best movie - barring A.I., and I credit Kubrick for the basis of storyline with credit to Spielberg for doing it right and better than Kubrick's original intention - but Spielberg is really a lousy director - luckily for Spielberg, Lucas is horrendously worse - for the most parts with the exception of those two films.

Sorry, whuntva, I think the medication I'm on probably made me not think twice about posting things. The original post now seems to me - a mere few minutes later - horribly righteous. I didn't mean to be...

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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby whuntva » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:54 pm

babydoll wrote:Sorry, whuntva, I think the medication I'm on probably made me not think twice about posting things. The original post now seems to me - a mere few minutes later - horribly righteous. I didn't mean to be...


No need to be. I just assumed you were joking. I have said many similar things myself.

It was just my list and I'm more of a fan of Aguirre and Andre Rublev than the average person. And I'm okay with that.

So no harm, no foul there.
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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby babydoll » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:33 pm

Oh, and I filtered the top 100 American films - kind of as a response to AFI - and this is what it came up with. I published this list on RYM and I see that it's interesting especially with its past ranks.

https://rateyourmusic.com/list/babydoll ... films-1/1/

No self-promotion, I swear! Just an interesting view of American films.

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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby Nick » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:20 pm

babydoll wrote:Interestingly, that's how I feel about Pulp Fiction. I mean, it's beautifully shot, but the story line is severally lacking. It doesn't even touch on the humanist themes of The Rules of the Game and L'Atalante. Nick, you felt nothing about the extraordinary beauty of Dita Parlo in the water? I think, by showing her in the bride's dress and that dazzling smile, Vigo really goes past both words and conventional cinematic expression by showing us an unparalleled moment of humanism. Plus I could write a book on what The Rules of the Game means to both to art and to cinema. After 60 years after those two films were released, it seems Pulp Fiction went backwards. I also think Pulp Fiction is inherently racist, even though it doesn't mean to be, thanks to Tarantino's somewhat misguided notions. (I may be absolutely wrong and probably rightfully demolished for this, but it's honestly how I feel about it.)


1. Actually the part with Dita Parlo in the water was really beautiful. But that's a 1 minute scene in an 89 minute movie. The rest of the movie falls very flat (for me).

2. I think that Pulp Fiction actually has its humanist themes, they just aren't nearly as pronounced as many films are. I think there's a great message on redemption and forgiveness throughout the movie. Such as how Butch goes back and saves Marcellus Wallace's life even when they're mortal enemies. Or when Jules quits the life of crime but Vincent mocks Jules and continues said life, only to pay the ultimate price.

3. I'd love to hear your thoughts on why you think Pulp Fiction is inherently racist. I really don't see that at all.

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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby bootsy » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:09 am

Nick wrote:Fiction actually has its humanist themes, they just aren't nearly as pronounced as many films are. I think there's a great message on redemption and forgiveness throughout the movie. Such as how Butch goes back and saves Marcellus Wallace's life even when they're mortal enemies. Or when Jules quits the life of crime but Vincent mocks Jules and continues said life, only to pay the ultimate price.

3. I'd love to hear your thoughts on why you think Pulp Fiction is inherently racist. I really don't see that at all.

Not to speak for babydoll but I would imagine it has to do with the character Jimmy's 'Dead Nigger Storage' scene at the end of the movie and the Gimp scene. Those stand out the most. As a black man I don't have a problem with either scene because Jimmy's character is talking to Jules most of the time during those scenes. Samuel Jackson obviously gave Tarantino the freedom to use the word repeatedly. In the Gimp scene when the redneck is reciting 'eeny meeny miny moe' rhyme with the n word it's a reflection of a Southern redneck and isn't a shock to hear that character use that word. That scene is just a reality in this world we live in unfortunately.

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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby bootsy » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:42 am

Another thing that struck me looking at this list is how low 12 Angry Men is. I was expecting it to be in the top 100, really surprised by that.

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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby BleuPanda » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:17 pm

bootsy wrote:Another thing that struck me looking at this list is how low 12 Angry Men is. I was expecting it to be in the top 100, really surprised by that.



I think 12 Angry Men is just a highly accessible film; many people approach movies the same way they approach literature, and 12 Angry Men hits a lot of high notes in terms of narrative. However, it doesn't really push any boundaries cinematically, so people who are really serious about film (serious enough to become critics or film creators themselves) are less likely to hold it on a high pedestal. Same thing for The Shawshank Redemption; both films are great at establishing emotional resonance, so they tend to rank high on audience surveys, but they both largely lack notable technique.
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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby Nick » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:41 pm

BleuPanda wrote:
bootsy wrote:Another thing that struck me looking at this list is how low 12 Angry Men is. I was expecting it to be in the top 100, really surprised by that.



I think 12 Angry Men is just a highly accessible film; many people approach movies the same way they approach literature, and 12 Angry Men hits a lot of high notes in terms of narrative. However, it doesn't really push any boundaries cinematically, so people who are really serious about film (serious enough to become critics or film creators themselves) are less likely to hold it on a high pedestal. Same thing for The Shawshank Redemption; both films are great at establishing emotional resonance, so they tend to rank high on audience surveys, but they both largely lack notable technique.


I know squat about technique, but isn't the fact that roughly 99% of it takes place in a single, small room noteworthy from a "technique" angle?

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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby bootsy » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:12 pm

BleuPanda wrote:
bootsy wrote:Another thing that struck me looking at this list is how low 12 Angry Men is. I was expecting it to be in the top 100, really surprised by that.



I think 12 Angry Men is just a highly accessible film; many people approach movies the same way they approach literature, and 12 Angry Men hits a lot of high notes in terms of narrative. However, it doesn't really push any boundaries cinematically, so people who are really serious about film (serious enough to become critics or film creators themselves) are less likely to hold it on a high pedestal. Same thing for The Shawshank Redemption; both films are great at establishing emotional resonance, so they tend to rank high on audience surveys, but they both largely lack notable technique.

Yeah you are probably right. That movie just seems like the 'type' that would be highly rated on TSPDT. Nevertheless it's still one of my favorite movies of all time.

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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby BleuPanda » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:06 pm

Nick wrote:
BleuPanda wrote:
bootsy wrote:Another thing that struck me looking at this list is how low 12 Angry Men is. I was expecting it to be in the top 100, really surprised by that.



I think 12 Angry Men is just a highly accessible film; many people approach movies the same way they approach literature, and 12 Angry Men hits a lot of high notes in terms of narrative. However, it doesn't really push any boundaries cinematically, so people who are really serious about film (serious enough to become critics or film creators themselves) are less likely to hold it on a high pedestal. Same thing for The Shawshank Redemption; both films are great at establishing emotional resonance, so they tend to rank high on audience surveys, but they both largely lack notable technique.


I know squat about technique, but isn't the fact that roughly 99% of it takes place in a single, small room noteworthy from a "technique" angle?



Not really. There are quite a few plays that do the same thing, and that's still from a narrative angle of technique. It's key as a minimalist film, but there are other films that go to more extreme lengths of minimalism. 12 Angry Men has the problem of essentially feeling like a stage play being captured with a camera. Which, it's still a great film (I have it rated as a 9.0/10), but you have to remember a lot of the sources for the TSPDT list are rather small; the biggest, the Sight and Sound poll, only asks for each participant's top ten; that's ten works from a medium that has existed for more than ten decades now. People who are really into narrative minimalism are more likely to name things like Tokyo Story or Jeanne Dielman. That's the issue of these massive list sites; works that literally everyone loves but few specifically push to the top of their list get overshadowed.
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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby babydoll » Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:10 pm

Well, the thing with Tokyo Story is that it's full of emotional depth, and Jeanne Dielman is a surprisingly compelling film despite its monotony. I feel those are greater achievements (and movies) than 12 Angry Men. Sidney Lumet, a fine director, even if the quality of his works are a bit shaky at times, was blessed with a wonderful script and one of the most charismatic leading men of all time. 12 Angry Men is a movie that I will never disparage, but I certainly won't actively pursue it. Some "lesser" films such as Notting Hill have a better chance of being watched, tbh. That's my opinion.

12 Angry Men can't really withstand multiple viewings, tbh. Unlike the Ozu and Akerman, films full of little details that immediately affect your opinion of the entire movie, 12 Angry Men is pretty straightforward. Almost every film in the top 100, including Jaws and Pulp Fiction, does have multiple layers and details hidden within these films. They're films that make interpretation, studying, and just plain watching, valuable, a quality that I feel has a fundamental necessity in art; to this day, people still talk about Donatello's David because of its significance, artistically, aesthetically, and morally, but I doubt 12 Angry Men will be as talked about unlike Notorious. Hence, I find that the perfect position for the Sidney Lumet film is probably slightly below #500.

Now, how can we make The Big Parade widely revered?

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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby Jirin » Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:20 am

Pulp Fiction is one of my favorite movies, but I see how somebody who is mostly a fan of the sort of movies that get in the top 100 would dislike it. It has more of a fun and cool factor than 'Intellectual and emotional depth' factor. It's a deconstruction of the mobster genre.

Jaws I personally find very overrated.

I get why Rules of the Game is considered great but wouldn't rank it as high as some of the other films toward the top. Yeah, it has nuanced satire of class distinctions and it's one of the first films to have complex intertwining storylines. But those storylines aren't necessarily that interesting and I think it gets a big historical value bump. Tokyo Story is much better.

BOO Satantango and A Brighter Summer Day falling out of the top 100!

HORRAY Chimes At Midnight gaining 50+ spots.

This makes Nanook of the North the highest ranked I have not seen.

My top ten films in the top 100 (No particular order)
Sunrise
Taxi Driver
Chinatown
Persona
Andrei Rublev
The Mirror
L'aventura
Night of the Hunter
Mulholland Dr
Sansho The Baliff

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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby whuntva » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:34 pm

Jirin wrote:Pulp Fiction is one of my favorite movies, but I see how somebody who is mostly a fan of the sort of movies that get in the top 100 would dislike it. It has more of a fun and cool factor than 'Intellectual and emotional depth' factor. It's a deconstruction of the mobster genre.

Jaws I personally find very overrated.

I get why Rules of the Game is considered great but wouldn't rank it as high as some of the other films toward the top. Yeah, it has nuanced satire of class distinctions and it's one of the first films to have complex intertwining storylines. But those storylines aren't necessarily that interesting and I think it gets a big historical value bump. Tokyo Story is much better.

BOO Satantango and A Brighter Summer Day falling out of the top 100!

HORRAY Chimes At Midnight gaining 50+ spots.

This makes Nanook of the North the highest ranked I have not seen.

My top ten films in the top 100 (No particular order)
Sunrise
Taxi Driver
Chinatown
Persona
Andrei Rublev
The Mirror
L'aventura
Night of the Hunter
Mulholland Dr
Sansho The Baliff


I thought Brighter Summer Day would soar due to the Criterion release, maybe even overtake Goodfellas as the film of its decade. I even rewatched it legally and saw the masterwork involved. The first time, it was just okay, but the second it was spellbinding.

Chimes at Midnight is truly a great film. I'm glad it rose. Especially knowing how personal a film this was. I can see its influence everywhere. Game of Thrones took the war scene shot for shot last season.

The highest film I have not seen is the ever elusive Mother and the Whore (102). Other than that it's Woman under the Influence (108).

My Top 10 for those who didn't click the Link (with rank and personal rank):

Aguirre, Wrath of God (92 | 2): Visceral and hypnotic film. It is grimy and ugly, but that's what made it unforgettable.
Vertigo (2 | 3): Beautiful cinematography and a gripping story. Gives new reason to watch it every time.
Casablanca (35 | 5): One of the best casts ever assembled and tightest screenplays ever written.
Psycho (26 | 13): A true horror movie without the need for monsters and one of the rare times the film improves on the book.
Citizen Kane (1 | 17): Beautiful film and a modern day Greek tragedy in a way. Orson's best performance as an actor as well.
Lawrence of Arabia (32 | 18): A cinematographer's dream come true.
Seven Samurai (10 | 19): A timeless story given new life in a new way by a great director.
The Gold Rush (69 | 23): An underrated silent comedy utilizing Chaplin's mime talents to their best abilities.
The Third Man (44 | 25): A tight mystery with a shocking twist. Good soundtrack, too.
Blade Runner (40 | 26): A neo-gothic chronicle of advances in technology. Eerie and ambient, and impeccably cast.

Aside from #1 maybe a tad predictable, but that's fine by me.
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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby Jirin » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:57 pm

Regarding whether Pulp Fiction is racist, I feel like if you're going to call things racist whenever they come from a worldview that doesn't jive exactly with your own, then just about everything is going to be racist. And it is also arguably racist to judge every black movie character like they are meant to be a representative for their entire race. Quentin Tarantino has complex views on race relations, but if the black characters in Pulp Fiction are meant to represent any entire group, it's mob movie characters.

I try to forget the teachings of liberal arts college film criticism and just let other people have their own worldview on race, to the point where they are not encouraging hate or violence toward any race. All that is accomplished by throwing around racism accusations is make people more receptive to the propaganda of racists.

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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby StevieFan13 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:00 am

See, sites that look at films like Acclaimed Music looks at movies aren't my bag, because I feel like an uncultured slob looking at the critically-lionized films in the top 100 as opposed to all the different songs here. (And I find the lack of Mel Brooks disturbing.)
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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby StevieFan13 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:01 am

Full disclosure: favorite movie's Casablanca, film sites and lists are too biased against animated movies, and Spielberg's one of my favorite directors. Call me a normie if you must.
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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby babydoll » Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:56 pm

StevieFan13 wrote:See, sites that look at films like Acclaimed Music looks at movies aren't my bag, because I feel like an uncultured slob looking at the critically-lionized films in the top 100 as opposed to all the different songs here. (And I find the lack of Mel Brooks disturbing.)

The amount of Mel Brooks on that list is perfect. He doesn't need more and doesn't need less. Sorry, but Young Frankenstein, Blazing Saddles, and The Producers are all merely top 1000 material, not top 100, even though Young Frankenstein should be top 500.

And I watched Pulp Fiction and L'Atalante. Holy cow, that latter film. Stunning. But we'll get to that. I appreciated Pulp Fiction more this time around. It's like one of those albums where you need to listen to twice to get why it's acclaimed. I understood why it was acclaimed even though I still think it's overrated. It's a very superficial movie, but there's something unnerving about that superficiality, that slickness of the cinematography, the punk nature of John Travolta and Samuel L. Jackson's characters. The tension is bubbling over the pot - so much that Samuel L. Jackson decides to become philosopher, in the league of David Carradine. One of the most surprisingly tension-filled moments is when Eric Stoltz is telling John Travolta about his new stash of heroin, right before Uma Thurman's overdose. Wow. It's like a foreshadow.

The scene with Jimmy is not a comfortable scene to watch, to be honest. I was raised to judge people by their character, not their skin - yes, I'm kinda ripping MLK with this one - and my parents pretty much pounded into my head to never say a derogatory term towards another person of a different color. So, Jirin, you have to blame my parents for that - and they both voted for Trump, much to my chagrin. Quentin Tarantino's flagrant use of that word - something which was criticized in The Hateful Eight - still shocks me, no matter typical of his character it is. It is an interesting scene, however, because it is also very much a combination of cultures - that of the black culture and that of the white culture, which I think is explored a little bit in Jackie Brown, but I haven't seen that one, yet, even though I want to. To me, Jimmy probably watched too much Blaxploitation and listened to too much rap, hence he doesn't seem to think anything is wrong with that word. It's that n-word, not used for generalizing, not for stereotyping, but as a matter-of-fact term, so much that it almost comes off as stereotyping. Sorry, Jirin and bootsy, if that last paragraph seemed a bit too "misguided" or something.

L'Atalante reveals so much about the beginning stages of marriage and the lack of knowledge between the two spouses about their significant others' expectations. Perhaps no better film has been created about this. We've been fed so many rom-coms about this theme, but it took a 1934 French film to do this. Jean Dasté's character has patriarchal beliefs, but Dita Parlo's character wants to break free from those restricting beliefs. Hence, she starts to be fascinated by Michel Simon, a man whom she found absolutely repulsive, because he has experienced freedom, a freedom she has never known, being the faithful daughter then a wife. She speaks throughout the film of wanting to go to Paris, to experience excitement, but her husband is content where he is, on a barge where you can't walk off to go to grocery shopping or something. When she does experience excitement, it has disastrous consequences, and she is forced to live in a horrible one-room apartment. At least she was able to walk on a barge... Because of her rash, unprepared actions, she has to suffer the consequences. In the meantime, the husband falls into a deep funk and realizes he loves his wife. Their reunion and that hug suggests compromise. It's a beautiful film, too. The cinematography is spectacular and the art direction is horribly claustrophobic, suggesting their entrapment. Once they break free, it seems the world lights up.

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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby BleuPanda » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:30 pm

I just want to say in response to some comments about the older films, you're missing something if you think L'atalante and The Rules of the Game are only up there due to respect for their age. The Rules of the Game easily places in my top 5 (though I did not care for it at all the first time I watched it), and it has nothing to do with it doing things first; it just does a lot of things better. The cinematography and framing is to die for; I have encountered few if any movies that have managed so much on the screen at once. Renoir's depth of vision is astounding. Additionally, the screenplay is one of the strongest and funniest I have encountered. It is an incredibly dense film; with each viewing, I find some stray detail that I love.

L'atalante is in a style completely unlike anything in the present; its visual style creates a dazzling atmosphere. It might not be 'believable,' but I believe that's far from what was being attempted.

While you shouldn't defend an old movie for doing things first (The Birth of a Nation and The Jazz Singer are schlock even with their notable features), you also need to view movies (and most art) in the context of their time. Styles were simply different; movies in the present and movies in the past are simply attempting different goals with different sensibilities. These classic films succeed within their era like classics of the modern day succeed in the present; but they both succeed.
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babydoll
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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby babydoll » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:36 pm

Thank you, Bleu, with your defense of The Rules of the Game. I was just about to write that; I figured I needed to watch it one more time. Really. One of the reasons why you're one of my favorite AMFers (really, most of the regulars are my favorite AMFers). I agree wholeheartedly with you.

It's funny. I was about to bring up The Jazz Singer when I was writing about Pulp Fiction. I find the moment where Al Jolson is in blackface singing "My Mammy" after his mother's death. The way the blackness of the face and the blackness of the background combine. It's just incredibly moving to me.

I also prefer The Birth of a Nation to Intolerance. The latter is so spectacular yet it somehow manages to bore me out of my mind every single time. I don't understand it. Andy Warhol's Blow Job is much more entertaining to me than Intolerance even though it's just a 40-minute shot about a man orgasm-ing.

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whuntva
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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby whuntva » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:46 pm

The thing about Birth of a Nation though is...I get it. I can see the techniques and how it influenced filmmaking. And I see what made DW Griffith a special director. Even with its sensitive subject matter, it is a landmark film and goes above and beyond with its craft. And it would be a very different film world today without it.



With L'Atlante, its style and ideas were all fine, but nothing sung to me as being a special film. You can probably say "I didn't get it", and I would not be offended. It's definitely a well-made, well-written film, I just don't get why it's all the way in the Top 20. Rules of the Game I do get though, and for many of the reasons BleuPanda described.
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BleuPanda
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Re: Waiting for the TSPDT update

Postby BleuPanda » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:42 pm

whuntva wrote:The thing about Birth of a Nation though is...I get it. I can see the techniques and how it influenced filmmaking. And I see what made DW Griffith a special director. Even with its sensitive subject matter, it is a landmark film and goes above and beyond with its craft. And it would be a very different film world today without it.



With L'Atlante, its style and ideas were all fine, but nothing sung to me as being a special film. You can probably say "I didn't get it", and I would not be offended. It's definitely a well-made, well-written film, I just don't get why it's all the way in the Top 20. Rules of the Game I do get though, and for many of the reasons BleuPanda described.



I do wonder with L'atalante specifically if part of it is due to Jean Vigo himself; he was an incredibly promising director with a tragically short life; unlike music, we have very few major directors who died rather young. L'atalante is his one feature-length film. Where I can imagine critics limiting themselves to not over represent certain directors, Jean Vigo will never have that problem.

At the same time, it does have a visual sense that I find immediately resonant; it has a certain charm I can't shake that no other film has captured for me. At the same time, it definitely isn't enough for me to 'get it' either. I feel like a lot of older films make more sense to me on repeat, so that might be the case here; I've only watched L'atalante twice. Even then, L'atalante is a film that is more akin to poetry than traditional narrative presentation in its best moments.
If I could begin to be, half of what you think of me,
I could do about anything, I could even learn how to love.


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