Considering it wasn't on the original list and then 498 in 2012, that is a big improvement.
So, so much neo-soul on the list now. And yet The Roots only get one album and Common doesn't make the list?
Considering it wasn't on the original list and then 498 in 2012, that is a big improvement.
Blurryface kinda got a critical shrug and twenty one pilots aren’t as huge now as they were two or so years ago. I don’t think it would make any sense for them to be on the list.
You are right but when i see albums like "Fine Line", "Man on the Moon: The End of the Day","Weight of These Wings" and albums from My Chemical Romance and Shakira and many more undeserving non-all time great albums i am shocked cause Blurryface had more impact and was a big deal at the time of its release,Critics also gave positive reviews and it did well on EOD lists.StevieFan13 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:50 pmBlurryface kinda got a critical shrug and twenty one pilots aren’t as huge now as they were two or so years ago. I don’t think it would make any sense for them to be on the list.
I'm not sure how old you are, but as someone who was a teenager when they came out, I can confirm that The Black Parade and Man on the Moon... had an enormous impact upon youth culture when they were released. The Black Parade is without a doubt the defining album of the 2000s pop-emo scene, and Man on the Moon, with its features from Ratatat and MGMT, was instrumental in bridging the worlds of indie and hip-hop. I knew teenage indie fans who got into rap music almost solely because of that album.Arsalan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:30 pmYou are right but when i see albums like "Fine Line", "Man on the Moon: The End of the Day","Weight of These Wings" and albums from My Chemical Romance and Shakira and many more undeserving non-all time great albums i am shocked cause Blurryface had more impact and was a big deal at the time of its release,Critics also gave positive reviews and it did well on EOD lists.StevieFan13 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:50 pmBlurryface kinda got a critical shrug and twenty one pilots aren’t as huge now as they were two or so years ago. I don’t think it would make any sense for them to be on the list.
I agree that a lot of critics overpraise 2000s, usually all white made indie rock (I’m slowly going through AM’s list and after the Top 500 or so most 2000s rock just feels like rehashing Radiohead), but I wish they got rid of some of those damn compilations to add in some of the better indie rock albums! Like no xx, no Animal Collective? Only one Arcade Fire at 500? Why not? The ones that actually advance the genre of indie rock surely deserve a position!StevieFan13 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:30 pm Now that I see what’s been cut, obviously I have reservations (I’m always sad seeing Whatever People Say I Am... not getting its due), but also seeing how many albums are just compilations, arbitrary picks for famous artists, or albums I’ve pretty much only heard old school critics praise (like Happy Trails).
Wait a second,I think there is a misunderstood.Man on the Moon:The End of the Day is from Kid Cudi.Of Course i know how good MGMT is.I am saying The Black Parade is not as important as albums like Hybrid Theory or WPSIATWIN.I am 15 btw and my friends who are all fans of rap and pop know about Twenty One Pilots especially because of the songs from Blurryface. Again i think albums i mentioned are good but there were better albums out there to choose instead.Nick wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:12 pmI'm not sure how old you are, but as someone who was a teenager when they came out, I can confirm that The Black Parade and Man on the Moon... had an enormous impact upon youth culture when they were released. The Black Parade is without a doubt the defining album of the 2000s pop-emo scene, and Man on the Moon, with its features from Ratatat and MGMT, was instrumental in bridging the worlds of indie and hip-hop. I knew teenage indie fans who got into rap music almost solely because of that album.Arsalan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:30 pmYou are right but when i see albums like "Fine Line", "Man on the Moon: The End of the Day","Weight of These Wings" and albums from My Chemical Romance and Shakira and many more undeserving non-all time great albums i am shocked cause Blurryface had more impact and was a big deal at the time of its release,Critics also gave positive reviews and it did well on EOD lists.StevieFan13 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:50 pm
Blurryface kinda got a critical shrug and twenty one pilots aren’t as huge now as they were two or so years ago. I don’t think it would make any sense for them to be on the list.
Basically the changes have been:
The misunderstanding is yours, Arsalan - Nick is not saying Man on the Moon is by MGMT, he's mentioning (very clearly) that one of its tracks features MGMT.Arsalan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:00 pmWait a second,I think there is a misunderstood.Man on the Moon:The End of the Day is from Kid Cudi.Of Course i know how good MGMT is.Nick wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:12 pm I'm not sure how old you are, but as someone who was a teenager when they came out, I can confirm that The Black Parade and Man on the Moon... had an enormous impact upon youth culture when they were released. The Black Parade is without a doubt the defining album of the 2000s pop-emo scene, and Man on the Moon, with its features from Ratatat and MGMT, was instrumental in bridging the worlds of indie and hip-hop. I knew teenage indie fans who got into rap music almost solely because of that album.
Let me get this whole thing clear,Getting 80 on metacritic means the album gained positive reviews and maybe i am wrong about EOD success but they were commercially successful too.I am saying again "Blurryface should not be on the list". My problem is with the phrase "Greatest of all time".Talking about MCR and Shakira and all those new albums from 2015-Now,Let me give you an example,If you want to make a list about 500 greatest movies of all time,Will you put "The Prestige" (same for the black parade)on the list? it is a good movie but top 500? or these new movies(Same for new albums from the second half of the 2010s) like "The Revenant" or "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood" in 500 greatest of all time? Please.But i am 99 percent sure that you will put Se7en on your list(Same for Hybrid theory,Both weren't critically acclaimed upon their release) but after a while they got their attention, Se7en did and HT also has started being on some lists these days and it will gain more acclaim soon.Ddiamondd wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:33 pm Yeah, contesting Twenty One Pilots as a critically big deal or Blurryface as an EOD success (neither of which are quantifiably true) but saying My Chemical Romance or Shakira are undeserving/have had little impact is the dictionary definition of fan goggles.
The big snub I found was Illinois. I also can't recall if any Vampire Weekend made the cut, which would be bizarre if they didn't given how well-received Modern Vampires of the City was.Holden wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:36 pmI agree that a lot of critics overpraise 2000s, usually all white made indie rock (I’m slowly going through AM’s list and after the Top 500 or so most 2000s rock just feels like rehashing Radiohead), but I wish they got rid of some of those damn compilations to add in some of the better indie rock albums! Like no xx, no Animal Collective? Only one Arcade Fire at 500? Why not? The ones that actually advance the genre of indie rock surely deserve a position!StevieFan13 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:30 pm Now that I see what’s been cut, obviously I have reservations (I’m always sad seeing Whatever People Say I Am... not getting its due), but also seeing how many albums are just compilations, arbitrary picks for famous artists, or albums I’ve pretty much only heard old school critics praise (like Happy Trails).
My Bad,I realized it but i was replying to another comment.I was going to edit it.Harold wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:20 pmThe misunderstanding is yours, Arsalan - Nick is not saying Man on the Moon is by MGMT, he's mentioning (very clearly) that one of its tracks features MGMT.Arsalan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:00 pmWait a second,I think there is a misunderstood.Man on the Moon:The End of the Day is from Kid Cudi.Of Course i know how good MGMT is.Nick wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:12 pm I'm not sure how old you are, but as someone who was a teenager when they came out, I can confirm that The Black Parade and Man on the Moon... had an enormous impact upon youth culture when they were released. The Black Parade is without a doubt the defining album of the 2000s pop-emo scene, and Man on the Moon, with its features from Ratatat and MGMT, was instrumental in bridging the worlds of indie and hip-hop. I knew teenage indie fans who got into rap music almost solely because of that album.
MVotC is #328.StevieFan13 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:48 pm I also can't recall if any Vampire Weekend made the cut, which would be bizarre if they didn't given how well-received Modern Vampires of the City was.
That sounds about right. I also forgot that both earlier versions of the song list had entries that were less than a year old (Hey Ya! on the 2004 list, Moment of Surrender on the 2010 list, and I can see one of those songs clearly sticking around and moving up and the other, if they have any sense of musical significance whatsoever, disappearing without a trace.)Harold wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:56 pmMVotC is #328.StevieFan13 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:48 pm I also can't recall if any Vampire Weekend made the cut, which would be bizarre if they didn't given how well-received Modern Vampires of the City was.
Whoa, that's uncalled for. A lot of people like Hey Ya!StevieFan13 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:02 pm I also forgot that both earlier versions of the song list had entries that were less than a year old (Hey Ya! on the 2004 list, Moment of Surrender on the 2010 list, and I can see one of those songs clearly sticking around and moving up and the other, if they have any sense of musical significance whatsoever, disappearing without a trace.)
Its placement was the oddest part - directly ahead of songs like Bohemian Rhapsody, Nothing Compares 2 U, and Folsom Prison Blues, one spot behind Rock Around the Clock. They also included it over Where the Streets Have No Name, which I could honestly see placing that high with little complaint. It’s not a bad song, but it definitely isn’t that good. I only remember it because I listened to it a bunch of times to figure out what about it was good enough to warrant placing that high.Harold wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:25 pmWhoa, that's uncalled for. A lot of people like Hey Ya!StevieFan13 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:02 pm I also forgot that both earlier versions of the song list had entries that were less than a year old (Hey Ya! on the 2004 list, Moment of Surrender on the 2010 list, and I can see one of those songs clearly sticking around and moving up and the other, if they have any sense of musical significance whatsoever, disappearing without a trace.)
Yeah, that U2 choice stuck out like an entire hand full of sore thumbs at the time. For the life of me I cannot recall a single thing about the song.
Well, "they" didn't drop anyone. The list was created from lists by artists and other industry people. RS just compiled it.Harold wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:00 pm Thanks for getting this transcribed so quickly!
I did jump straight to the top 50 when I visited the RS website. I'm sure the rest of the list will confirm the initial impression that this is a fascinating and frustrating effort by RS to revamp the canon (I have no doubt they're already receiving hate from old-school fans just for dropping Sgt. Pepper's... to #24, and their new #1 is a really interesting choice although it would not have been mine) while still remaining Rolling Stone. It's certain to generate much debate, in a way RS hasn't been able to for quite a while.
Next question re: music sources not as relevant as they once were: when will Pitchfork finally do an all-time top 500 list?
With all due respect I have to disagree. There are lots of cases where you listen to an album, hypothetically, the day it comes out and instantly know it’s a classic (Fetch The Bolt Cutters is an example of one which has came out this year) that’s why, for example, To Pimp A Butterfly and Lemonade are (rightfully) ranked so high. Older albums didn’t matter because these albums had the same musical impact that other “canon” works did that were released earlier.Arsalan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:47 pmLet me get this whole thing clear,Getting 80 on metacritic means the album gained positive reviews and maybe i am wrong about EOD success but they were commercially successful too.I am saying again "Blurryface should not be on the list". My problem is with the phrase "Greatest of all time".Talking about MCR and Shakira and all those new albums from 2015-Now,Let me give you an example,If you want to make a list about 500 greatest movies of all time,Will you put "The Prestige" (same for the black parade)on the list? it is a good movie but top 500? or these new movies(Same for new albums from the second half of the 2010s) like "The Revenant" or "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood" in 500 greatest of all time? Please.But i am 99 percent sure that you will put Se7en on your list(Same for Hybrid theory,Both weren't critically acclaimed upon their release) but after a while they got their attention, Se7en did and HT also has started being on some lists these days and it will gain more acclaim soon.Ddiamondd wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:33 pm Yeah, contesting Twenty One Pilots as a critically big deal or Blurryface as an EOD success (neither of which are quantifiably true) but saying My Chemical Romance or Shakira are undeserving/have had little impact is the dictionary definition of fan goggles.
My problem is with the phrase,Putting new albums on the list and ignoring some important parts of the all time is not okay.
I know six albums that probably didn't make Taylor Swift's list...
So much YES. On what planet is BLACKsummersnight is better than Maxwell's Urban Hang Suite? The latter is a masterclass in atmosphere building, songwriting and instrumentation. Even at its best, the former has nothing as irresistibly groovy as "Ascension (Don't Ever Wonder)" and its most solid ballad does not stand a chance against the stunning "Whenever Wherever Whatever". Fun fact: Maxwell's "Whenever Wherever Whatever" is one of the most covered songs by Korean male R&B singers and this album plays a significant role in establishing the early neo-soul scene there.bootsy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:52 am They picked the wrong Maxwell album. Urban Hang Suite blows BlackSummersNight out of the water. That album is so perfect. I used to take road trips and could play that entire album without skipping a song.
Wrong The Weeknd album also, House of Balloons over the inconsistent Beauty Behind The Madness. So frustrating.
Let me add that I assume you’re not so foolish as to go 50 [points] down to 1; 100 down to 51 would make much more sense, because we obviously don’t like our favorite 50 times as much as the one that squeaked in last though we may like it twice as much.
His wife voted for a LOT of the same albums that he did, including some more esoteric picks (the Tom Ze comp, Rolling Stones Now!, How I Got Over, etc.). It's almost like he had two votes!Kingoftonga wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:21 pm Robert Christgau wrote a little bit about the process of making his list. He includes his personal Top 50, as well as the Top 50 of Carola Dibbell (his wife, and another RS 500 voter), and a list of the listening "homework" they completed before compiling their submissions.
https://robertchristgau.substack.com/p/ ... s-on-lists
I wish RS would include the personal lists that were submitted. I always enjoy when publications like the AVClub do this...it's a fun way to be introduced to more obscure personal favorites that might not make the official list.
I’m replaying the poll-topping What’s Going On as I write and as happens every fucking time I give it another chance am tuning out as the strings of the otherwise obscure David Van De Pitte swallow such mediocre songs as “Flyin’ High” and “Right On.” “What’s Going On,” “Mercy Mercy Me,” “Inner City Blues”? Stone masterpieces, all three—brilliant and even earth-shaking, I mean it. The rest? Well-meant filler.
Ultimately this wouldn't change the final list though, everything would've gained 50 points per vote equally.Live in Phoenix wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:23 pm Interesting Christgau remark for assigning points to a 50 album list:
Let me add that I assume you’re not so foolish as to go 50 [points] down to 1; 100 down to 51 would make much more sense, because we obviously don’t like our favorite 50 times as much as the one that squeaked in last though we may like it twice as much.
I noticed that Rolling Stone's own system below doesn't end on 1 point, it ends on 44...Should every point system just end on 1 point? (Like why not give everything 43 less points, and make the #1 album 257 points? But then a #1 album is 257 times better than a #50 album. Statistics 101 stumpers )Listyguy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:41 amUltimately this wouldn't change the final list though, everything would've gained 50 points per vote equally.Live in Phoenix wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:23 pm Interesting Christgau remark for assigning points to a 50 album list:
Let me add that I assume you’re not so foolish as to go 50 [points] down to 1; 100 down to 51 would make much more sense, because we obviously don’t like our favorite 50 times as much as the one that squeaked in last though we may like it twice as much.
Voters were asked to submit ranked ballots listing their 50 favorite albums of all time. Votes were tabulated, with the highest-ranked album on each list receiving 300 points, the second highest 290 points, and so on down to 44 points for number 50.
It would make a big difference. Say Album A gets 1 first place vote and Album B gets two 50th place votes.Listyguy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:41 amUltimately this wouldn't change the final list though, everything would've gained 50 points per vote equally.Live in Phoenix wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:23 pm Interesting Christgau remark for assigning points to a 50 album list:
Let me add that I assume you’re not so foolish as to go 50 [points] down to 1; 100 down to 51 would make much more sense, because we obviously don’t like our favorite 50 times as much as the one that squeaked in last though we may like it twice as much.
I feel vindicated on How I Got Over now...I probably think that is my favorite Roots album.
I totally agree re: The Immaculate Collection. Far and away had a bigger impact on my own music journey than any of her individual albums. I guess if we got super technical, it's actually a remix album - which also ruined me for many of the original mixes.JR wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:07 pm i had forgotten that The Immaculate Collection had a notably higher placement in the 201 update.
cregis- as for compilations: Note that there aren't that many on the list. Something like Immaculate is just such a force to be reckoned with, that it's ingrained in many's minds. It so defined its era, both with the audio and visuals. As much as I love Madonna's best studio sets, Immaculate probably remains my "desert-island" album.
To me it's wild that they included AM over Whatever People Say I Am...StevieFan13 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:30 pm Now that I see what’s been cut, obviously I have reservations (I’m always sad seeing Whatever People Say I Am... not getting its due), but also seeing how many albums are just compilations, arbitrary picks for famous artists, or albums I’ve pretty much only heard old school critics praise (like Happy Trails).