Rolling Stone (USA) - The 100 Greatest Metal Albums of All Time (2017)

Genre lists from sources that normally cover music in general.
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Rolling Stone (USA) - The 100 Greatest Metal Albums of All Time (2017)

Post by StevieFan13 »

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists ... me-w486923
Obviously ineligible (for now), so this is just for posterity, like the other genre lists. Wonder what Pierre thinks of this...a metal list from as high a source as Rolling Stone. (I did not know Evanescence counted as metal).

100. Avenged Sevenfold, 'City of Evil' (2005)
99. Evanescence, 'Fallen' (2003)
98. Sunn O))), 'Monoliths & Dimensions' (2009)
97. Gojira, 'From Mars to Sirius' (2005)
96. Kvelertak, 'Meir' (2013)
95. Dream Theater, 'Images and Words' (1992)
94. Deafheaven, 'Sunbather' (2013)
93. White Zombie, 'La Sexorcisto: Devil Music Volume One' (1992)
92. Eyehategod, 'Take as Needed for Pain' (1993)
91. Naked City, 'Torture Garden' (1990)
90. Body Count, 'Body Count' (1992)
89. Nightwish, 'Once' (2004)
88. Pig Destroyer, 'Terrifyer' (2004)
87. Manowar, 'Hail to England' (1984)
86. Lamb of God, 'As the Palaces Burn' (2003)
85. Darkthrone, 'Transilvanian Hunger' (1994)
84. High on Fire, 'Blessed Black Wings' (2005)
83. Baroness, 'The Red Album' (2007)
82. Entombed, 'Left Hand Path' (1990)
81. Bathory, 'Under the Sign of the Black Mark' (1987)
80. Ministry, 'Psalm 69: The Way to Succeed and the Way to Suck Eggs' (1992)
79. At the Gates, 'Slaughter of the Soul' (1995)
78. Voivod, 'Dimension Hatröss' (1988)
77. Meshuggah, 'Destroy Erase Improve' (1995)
76. Twisted Sister, 'Stay Hungry' (1984)
75. Morbid Angel, 'Covenant' (1993)
74. Venom, 'Welcome to Hell' (1981)
73. Scorpions, 'Blackout' (1982)
72. Isis, 'Oceanic' (2002)
71. Living Colour, 'Vivid' (1988)
70. Death, 'Human' (1991)
69. Soundgarden, 'Louder Than Love' (1989)
68. Marilyn Manson, 'Portrait of an American Family' (1994)
67. Queensrÿche, 'Operation: Mindcrime' (1988)
66. Deftones, 'White Pony' (2000)
65. Faith No More, 'Angel Dust' (1992)
64. Godflesh, 'Streetcleaner' (1989)
63. Sodom, 'Agent Orange' (1989)
62. Sleep, 'Jerusalem' (1999)
61. Converge, 'Jane Doe' (2001)
60. Melvins, 'Bullhead' (1991)
59. Napalm Death, 'From Enslavement to Obliteration' (1988)
58. Life of Agony, 'River Runs Red' (1993)
57. Emperor, 'Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk' (1997)
56. The Dillinger Escape Plan, 'Calculating Infinity' (1999)
55. Opeth, 'Blackwater Park' (2001)
54. Helmet, 'Meantime' (1992)
53. Type O Negative, 'Bloody Kisses' (1993)
52. Def Leppard, 'Pyromania' (1983)
51. Carcass, 'Heartwork' (1993)
50. Slipknot, 'Iowa' (2001)
49. Neurosis, 'Through Silver in Blood' (1996)
48. Rainbow, 'Rising' (1976)
47. Slayer, 'South of Heaven' (1988)
46. Mastodon, 'Leviathan' (2004)
45. Exodus, 'Bonded by Blood' (1985)
44. Mötley Crüe, 'Shout at the Devil' (1983)
43. Judas Priest, 'Stained Class' (1978)
42. Diamond Head, 'Lightning to the Nations' (1980)
41. Kyuss, 'Blues for the Red Sun' (1992)
40. Mayhem, 'De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas' (1994)
39. Pantera, 'Far Beyond Driven' (1994)
38. Iron Maiden, 'Powerslave' (1984)
37. Black Sabbath, 'Heaven and Hell' (1980)
36. Van Halen, 'Women and Children First' (1980)
35. Metallica, 'Kill 'Em All' (1983)
34. Black Sabbath, 'Master of Reality' (1971)
33. Megadeth, 'Countdown to Extinction' (1992)
32. Black Sabbath, 'Sabotage' (1975)
31. Slayer, 'Seasons in the Abyss' (1990)
30. Korn, 'Korn' (1994)
29. Sepultura, 'Chaos A.D.' (1993)
28. Celtic Frost, 'Morbid Tales' (1984)
27. System of a Down, 'Toxicity' (2001)
26. Alice in Chains, 'Dirt' (1992)
25. Metallica, 'Metallica' (1991)
24. Rage Against the Machine, 'Rage Against the Machine' (1992)
23. Danzig, 'Danzig' (1988)
22. Mötley Crüe, 'Too Fast for Love' (1981)
21. Metallica, '...And Justice for All' (1988)
20. Anthrax, 'Among the Living' (1987)
19. Megadeth, 'Rust in Peace' (1990)
18. Tool, 'Ænima' (1996)
17. Mercyful Fate, 'Melissa' (1983)
16. Dio, 'Holy Diver' (1983)
15. Ozzy Osbourne, 'Diary of a Madman' (1981)
14. Black Sabbath, 'Vol. 4' (1972)
13. Iron Maiden, 'Iron Maiden' (1980)
12. Judas Priest, 'Screaming for Vengeance' (1982)
11. Metallica, 'Ride the Lightning' (1984)
10. Pantera, 'Vulgar Display of Power' (1992)
9. Ozzy Osbourne, 'Blizzard of Ozz' (1980)
8. Megadeth, 'Peace Sells ... but Who's Buying?' (1986)
7. Motörhead, 'No Remorse' (1984)
6. Slayer, 'Reign in Blood' (1986)
5. Black Sabbath, 'Black Sabbath' (1970)
4. Iron Maiden, 'The Number of the Beast' (1982)
3. Judas Priest, 'British Steel' (1980)
2. Metallica, 'Master of Puppets' (1986)
1. Black Sabbath, 'Paranoid' (1970)

Some of these are debatably metal, even though they have very metal sensibilities (Soundgarden, Faith No More, Evanescence). So, they've now done lists for metal, emo, prog, and country. Now that they've done a hip-hop songs list, I hope they do a hip-hop albums list too.
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Re: Rolling Stone (USA) - The 100 Greatest Metal Albums of All Time (2017)

Post by babydoll »

But shouldn't it not count considering it's metal and Rolling Stone is most definitely not a metal list?
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Re: Rolling Stone (USA) - The 100 Greatest Metal Albums of All Time (2017)

Post by StevieFan13 »

babydoll wrote:But shouldn't it not count considering it's metal and Rolling Stone is most definitely not a metal list?
As I mentioned, this list is currently ineligible. I'm just posting it for posterity's sake and put the link in the "Album genre lists from non-genre sources" thread. If Henrik changes his mind in future updates, it's right here waiting.
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Re: Rolling Stone (USA) - The 100 Greatest Metal Albums of All Time (2017)

Post by babydoll »

StevieFan13 wrote:
babydoll wrote:But shouldn't it not count considering it's metal and Rolling Stone is most definitely not a metal list?
As I mentioned, this list is currently ineligible. I'm just posting it for posterity's sake and put the link in the "Album genre lists from non-genre sources" thread. If Henrik changes his mind in future updates, it's right here waiting.
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Re: Rolling Stone (USA) - The 100 Greatest Metal Albums of All Time (2017)

Post by StevieFan13 »

babydoll wrote:
StevieFan13 wrote:
babydoll wrote:But shouldn't it not count considering it's metal and Rolling Stone is most definitely not a metal list?
As I mentioned, this list is currently ineligible. I'm just posting it for posterity's sake and put the link in the "Album genre lists from non-genre sources" thread. If Henrik changes his mind in future updates, it's right here waiting.
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Re: Rolling Stone (USA) - The 100 Greatest Metal Albums of All Time (2017)

Post by panam »

Not bad, I was expecting a very US American-centrist list, but you can find many good metal choices from different scenes. Cheers!
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Re: Rolling Stone (USA) - The 100 Greatest Metal Albums of All Time (2017)

Post by Pierre »

StevieFan13 wrote:Wonder what Pierre thinks of this...a metal list from as high a source as Rolling Stone. (I did not know Evanescence counted as metal).
Well, not much, most of the stuff here is pretty recurrent in the lists I've posted these last months :D And it's pretty confirmed by now that grunge (and to a lesser extent, emo) has been assimilated into metal culture, so the biggest surprise would actually be the absence of Nevermind. Fun (or interesting) fact: they mentioned in the intro to their hair metal list (already posted on the forum) that Guns N' Roses and W.A.S.P. were discarded from the hair metal list for being too "legitimately heavy", and guess who are absent of this list as well?

Regarding Evanescence, not only do they count, but I believe that Fallen has appeared enough to have a shot at being a bubbler on AM whenever the album lists are added, just with the metal lists alone.
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Re: Rolling Stone (USA) - The 100 Greatest Metal Albums of All Time (2017)

Post by StevieFan13 »

Pierre wrote:
StevieFan13 wrote:Wonder what Pierre thinks of this...a metal list from as high a source as Rolling Stone. (I did not know Evanescence counted as metal).
Well, not much, most of the stuff here is pretty recurrent in the lists I've posted these last months :D And it's pretty confirmed by now that grunge (and to a lesser extent, emo) has been assimilated into metal culture, so the biggest surprise would actually be the absence of Nevermind. Fun (or interesting) fact: they mentioned in the intro to their hair metal list (already posted on the forum) that Guns N' Roses and W.A.S.P. were discarded from the hair metal list for being too "legitimately heavy", and guess who are absent of this list as well?

Regarding Evanescence, not only do they count, but I believe that Fallen has appeared enough to have a shot at being a bubbler on AM whenever the album lists are added, just with the metal lists alone.
I was actually a little surprised myself not to see Nevermind or Appetite for Destruction pop up (especially since Soundgarden are on the list).

And I was not aware of that with Evanescence. Not their biggest fan, but I'm glad they're doing well.
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Re: Rolling Stone (USA) - The 100 Greatest Metal Albums of All Time (2017)

Post by Pierre »

StevieFan13 wrote: And I was not aware of that with Evanescence. Not their biggest fan, but I'm glad they're doing well.
He he, you don't read all my messages in the Help wanted! thread :P

I've been "monitoring" (more or less, and more less than more) Evanescence, Nightwish and Within Temptation slightly because one of the forum members, jamieW, is an acknowledged fan of this side of the musical scene (and specifically those three acts), despite its rare critical recognition. At this point, Evanescence should have this album entry, while I'm basically certain that Nightwish will score at least one album (Once), and maybe even more. Within Temptation are probably still a bit short although they've appeared as well.
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Re: Rolling Stone (USA) - The 100 Greatest Metal Albums of All Time (2017)

Post by StevieFan13 »

Pierre wrote:
StevieFan13 wrote: And I was not aware of that with Evanescence. Not their biggest fan, but I'm glad they're doing well.
He he, you don't read all my messages in the Help wanted! thread :P

I've been "monitoring" (more or less, and more less than more) Evanescence, Nightwish and Within Temptation slightly because one of the forum members, jamieW, is an acknowledged fan of this side of the musical scene (and specifically those three acts), despite its rare critical recognition. At this point, Evanescence should have this album entry, while I'm basically certain that Nightwish will score at least one album (Once), and maybe even more. Within Temptation are probably still a bit short although they've appeared as well.
Ha, I guess I haven't. Only a few acts I'm monitoring while adding albums (you were kind enough to point out Queen's increasing success). I've been surprised to find that one of the albums that might get the biggest boost in the next update other than Nevermind and Ziggy Stardust is Endtroducing, which I've counted as appearing on 5 or 6 new lists at this point (and counting).
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Re: Rolling Stone (USA) - The 100 Greatest Metal Albums of All Time (2017)

Post by andyd1010 »

Haha everyone's favorite album starts off the list!

It is my favorite metal album though, so I'm glad it made the cut.
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Re: Rolling Stone (USA) - The 100 Greatest Metal Albums of All Time (2017)

Post by jamieW »

Pierre wrote:
StevieFan13 wrote: And I was not aware of that with Evanescence. Not their biggest fan, but I'm glad they're doing well.
He he, you don't read all my messages in the Help wanted! thread :P

I've been "monitoring" (more or less, and more less than more) Evanescence, Nightwish and Within Temptation slightly because one of the forum members, jamieW, is an acknowledged fan of this side of the musical scene (and specifically those three acts), despite its rare critical recognition. At this point, Evanescence should have this album entry, while I'm basically certain that Nightwish will score at least one album (Once), and maybe even more. Within Temptation are probably still a bit short although they've appeared as well.
Great news for me! I'd love to see Nightwish on AM and "Once" is my second favorite of their albums. Evanescence at least has "Bring Me to Life" as a bubbler. (I was always surprised "My Immortal" isn't at least a bubbler, as well.) It's funny that I became a fan of this type of nu-metal before I found AM, and was never aware before then of just how maligned the genre was.

Thanks for giving me hope, Pierre - I promise not to hold you to it! :D
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Re: Rolling Stone (USA) - The 100 Greatest Metal Albums of All Time (2017)

Post by Pierre »

jamieW wrote:
Pierre wrote:
StevieFan13 wrote: And I was not aware of that with Evanescence. Not their biggest fan, but I'm glad they're doing well.
He he, you don't read all my messages in the Help wanted! thread :P

I've been "monitoring" (more or less, and more less than more) Evanescence, Nightwish and Within Temptation slightly because one of the forum members, jamieW, is an acknowledged fan of this side of the musical scene (and specifically those three acts), despite its rare critical recognition. At this point, Evanescence should have this album entry, while I'm basically certain that Nightwish will score at least one album (Once), and maybe even more. Within Temptation are probably still a bit short although they've appeared as well.
Great news for me! I'd love to see Nightwish on AM and "Once" is my second favorite of their albums. Evanescence at least has "Bring Me to Life" as a bubbler. (I was always surprised "My Immortal" isn't at least a bubbler, as well.) It's funny that I became a fan of this type of nu-metal before I found AM, and was never aware before then of just how maligned the genre was.

Thanks for giving me hope, Pierre - I promise not to hold you to it! :D
Yeah, better not :D But unless I'm completely mistaken about how Henrik's system works, I believe Fallen and Once should become at least bubblers. Oceanborn and Wishmaster are knocking at the door and Century Child did score a few points, but I'd only bet money on Once for the moment. Interestingly enough, even Tuomas Holopainen's Scrooge did appear on one list, so you might consider Nightwish the "most acclaimed" of these acts ;)

For your info, Mother Earth and The Heart of Everything are the Within Temptation albums you could have hope for (Black Symphony and The Silent Force also scored negligible points), but I believe they don't have enough appearances yet.

Oh, and I don't know how you feel about the Gathering and Lacuna Coil (who are often lumped together by critics with these acts), but they did score a few points as well.
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Re: Rolling Stone (USA) - The 100 Greatest Metal Albums of All Time (2017)

Post by jamieW »

Pierre wrote:
jamieW wrote:
Pierre wrote:
He he, you don't read all my messages in the Help wanted! thread :P

I've been "monitoring" (more or less, and more less than more) Evanescence, Nightwish and Within Temptation slightly because one of the forum members, jamieW, is an acknowledged fan of this side of the musical scene (and specifically those three acts), despite its rare critical recognition. At this point, Evanescence should have this album entry, while I'm basically certain that Nightwish will score at least one album (Once), and maybe even more. Within Temptation are probably still a bit short although they've appeared as well.
Great news for me! I'd love to see Nightwish on AM and "Once" is my second favorite of their albums. Evanescence at least has "Bring Me to Life" as a bubbler. (I was always surprised "My Immortal" isn't at least a bubbler, as well.) It's funny that I became a fan of this type of nu-metal before I found AM, and was never aware before then of just how maligned the genre was.

Thanks for giving me hope, Pierre - I promise not to hold you to it! :D
Yeah, better not :D But unless I'm completely mistaken about how Henrik's system works, I believe Fallen and Once should become at least bubblers. Oceanborn and Wishmaster are knocking at the door and Century Child did score a few points, but I'd only bet money on Once for the moment. Interestingly enough, even Tuomas Holopainen's Scrooge did appear on one list, so you might consider Nightwish the "most acclaimed" of these acts ;)

For your info, Mother Earth and The Heart of Everything are the Within Temptation albums you could have hope for (Black Symphony and The Silent Force also scored negligible points), but I believe they don't have enough appearances yet.

Oh, and I don't know how you feel about the Gathering and Lacuna Coil (who are often lumped together by critics with these acts), but they did score a few points as well.
Thanks for the update, Pierre! For some reason, I could never get into Lacuna Coil; and, while I'm aware of the Gathering, I have yet to check them out. (I will do that soon.) If I were to give a "fourth place" prize to a band from this genre, I think it would be to Sirenia, with "Nine Destinies and a Downfall" being a personal favorite. (Since I never understood why so many dismiss nu-metal, I've been really happy to see these bands pop up on the metal lists, since this is their field of expertise and they seem to appreciate them. Mainstream critics often dismiss metal altogether, so it's not surprising that they'd only recognize the acts at the very top.)
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Re: Rolling Stone (USA) - The 100 Greatest Metal Albums of All Time (2017)

Post by Pierre »

jamieW wrote:
Pierre wrote:
jamieW wrote:
Great news for me! I'd love to see Nightwish on AM and "Once" is my second favorite of their albums. Evanescence at least has "Bring Me to Life" as a bubbler. (I was always surprised "My Immortal" isn't at least a bubbler, as well.) It's funny that I became a fan of this type of nu-metal before I found AM, and was never aware before then of just how maligned the genre was.

Thanks for giving me hope, Pierre - I promise not to hold you to it! :D
Yeah, better not :D But unless I'm completely mistaken about how Henrik's system works, I believe Fallen and Once should become at least bubblers. Oceanborn and Wishmaster are knocking at the door and Century Child did score a few points, but I'd only bet money on Once for the moment. Interestingly enough, even Tuomas Holopainen's Scrooge did appear on one list, so you might consider Nightwish the "most acclaimed" of these acts ;)

For your info, Mother Earth and The Heart of Everything are the Within Temptation albums you could have hope for (Black Symphony and The Silent Force also scored negligible points), but I believe they don't have enough appearances yet.

Oh, and I don't know how you feel about the Gathering and Lacuna Coil (who are often lumped together by critics with these acts), but they did score a few points as well.
Thanks for the update, Pierre! For some reason, I could never get into Lacuna Coil; and, while I'm aware of the Gathering, I have yet to check them out. (I will do that soon.) If I were to give a "fourth place" prize to a band from this genre, I think it would be to Sirenia, with "Nine Destinies and a Downfall" being a personal favorite. (Since I never understood why so many dismiss nu-metal, I've been really happy to see these bands pop up on the metal lists, since this is their field of expertise and they seem to appreciate them. Mainstream critics often dismiss metal altogether, so it's not surprising that they'd only recognize the acts at the very top.)
Unfortunately, even metal critics seem to forget Sirenia, as it has not popped up in any of the lists I've posted (and I've posted quite a bunch)... :? On another note, these acts aren't so much associated with nu metal as they are with gothic metal, from what I've seen (with Nightwish even being associated with power metal, but I believe it's a stretch, as power metal is most generally thrash-influenced). I believe it's because it relies less on the incorporation of hip-hop effects, which is fundamental in nu metal, as it does on orchestrations and operatic vocals. So the critical dismissal doesn't have the same foundations for them, I guess :)
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Re: Rolling Stone (USA) - The 100 Greatest Metal Albums of All Time (2017)

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Pierre wrote:Unfortunately, even metal critics seem to forget Sirenia, as it has not popped up in any of the lists I've posted (and I've posted quite a bunch)... :? On another note, these acts aren't so much associated with nu metal as they are with gothic metal, from what I've seen (with Nightwish even being associated with power metal, but I believe it's a stretch, as power metal is most generally thrash-influenced). I believe it's because it relies less on the incorporation of hip-hop effects, which is fundamental in nu metal, as it does on orchestrations and operatic vocals. So the critical dismissal doesn't have the same foundations for them, I guess :)
I think I'll gladly take the gothic metal label over nu-metal, at this point. :P (It probably explains how I'm drawn to them, since my favorite band is The Cure.) It might just be years of hearing people who hate the groups (particularly Evanescence) label them as nu-metal that made me accept the label. I've grudgingly accepted people not liking Evanescence, given the "pop-metal" quality; but it's always surprised me that so many dismiss Nightwish - with their mixture of goth, opera, classical, metal, there's plenty to like for me!
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Re: Rolling Stone (USA) - The 100 Greatest Metal Albums of All Time (2017)

Post by Pierre »

jamieW wrote: I think I'll gladly take the gothic metal label over nu-metal, at this point. :P (It probably explains how I'm drawn to them, since my favorite band is The Cure.) It might just be years of hearing people who hate the groups (particularly Evanescence) label them as nu-metal that made me accept the label. I've grudgingly accepted people not liking Evanescence, given the "pop-metal" quality; but it's always surprised me that so many dismiss Nightwish - with their mixture of goth, opera, classical, metal, there's plenty to like for me!
I guess Evanescence got lumped with the nu metal scene because they do show a bit of hip-hop effects, or because of a terminology rift between US and Europe, or because they appeared when Linkin Park, Deftones, Slipknot and System of a Down were at the peak of their popularity, or most probably a mix of all that... Looking backward, they do feel much more gothic metal than they do nu metal to me.

As for the rest, I don't know - maybe it has to do with the fact the gothic metal scene is striving while we're living in the Pitchfork & Kanye West/Beyoncé/Rihanna/Taylor Swift/Ariana Grande age, where critical acclaim and the most publicized commercial success go to music genres which have nothing in common with it. A question worth studying, I guess.
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Re: Rolling Stone (USA) - The 100 Greatest Metal Albums of All Time (2017)

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Pierre wrote:
jamieW wrote: I think I'll gladly take the gothic metal label over nu-metal, at this point. :P (It probably explains how I'm drawn to them, since my favorite band is The Cure.) It might just be years of hearing people who hate the groups (particularly Evanescence) label them as nu-metal that made me accept the label. I've grudgingly accepted people not liking Evanescence, given the "pop-metal" quality; but it's always surprised me that so many dismiss Nightwish - with their mixture of goth, opera, classical, metal, there's plenty to like for me!
I guess Evanescence got lumped with the nu metal scene because they do show a bit of hip-hop effects, or because of a terminology rift between US and Europe, or because they appeared when Linkin Park, Deftones, Slipknot and System of a Down were at the peak of their popularity, or most probably a mix of all that... Looking backward, they do feel much more gothic metal than they do nu metal to me.

As for the rest, I don't know - maybe it has to do with the fact the gothic metal scene is striving while we're living in the Pitchfork & Kanye West/Beyoncé/Rihanna/Taylor Swift/Ariana Grande age, where critical acclaim and the most publicized commercial success go to music genres which have nothing in common with it. A question worth studying, I guess.
I think critical acclaim goes in cycles, and now there's a movement toward recognizing mainstream music - especially the biggest hits. I'm sure it started before then, but the first I remember really noticing this was "Call Me Maybe." I remember being quite surprised the critics were drooling over it, since I grew up on Top 40 and still listen to all of the new songs each week, and didn't see much at all separating it from anything else on the radio. When it started showing up on so many end-of-year lists, I thought "So why, of all the good mainstream songs this year, is this the one getting all the attention?" Since then, I've seen the rise of others, including Taylor and (gasp) even Bieber. (Who is now, suddenly, acclaimed, when the only difference I hear in his music is better production values. Some of this might be that everyone loves a good redemption story.)

Sorry for the tangent, but you definitely touched upon a subject I've been noticing for quite some time now! Perhaps it's just jealousy that Nightwish and Evanescence don't garner the same level of attention. :P
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Re: Rolling Stone (USA) - The 100 Greatest Metal Albums of All Time (2017)

Post by Pierre »

jamieW wrote:
Pierre wrote:
jamieW wrote: I think I'll gladly take the gothic metal label over nu-metal, at this point. :P (It probably explains how I'm drawn to them, since my favorite band is The Cure.) It might just be years of hearing people who hate the groups (particularly Evanescence) label them as nu-metal that made me accept the label. I've grudgingly accepted people not liking Evanescence, given the "pop-metal" quality; but it's always surprised me that so many dismiss Nightwish - with their mixture of goth, opera, classical, metal, there's plenty to like for me!
I guess Evanescence got lumped with the nu metal scene because they do show a bit of hip-hop effects, or because of a terminology rift between US and Europe, or because they appeared when Linkin Park, Deftones, Slipknot and System of a Down were at the peak of their popularity, or most probably a mix of all that... Looking backward, they do feel much more gothic metal than they do nu metal to me.

As for the rest, I don't know - maybe it has to do with the fact the gothic metal scene is striving while we're living in the Pitchfork & Kanye West/Beyoncé/Rihanna/Taylor Swift/Ariana Grande age, where critical acclaim and the most publicized commercial success go to music genres which have nothing in common with it. A question worth studying, I guess.
I think critical acclaim goes in cycles, and now there's a movement toward recognizing mainstream music - especially the biggest hits. I'm sure it started before then, but the first I remember really noticing this was "Call Me Maybe." I remember being quite surprised the critics were drooling over it, since I grew up on Top 40 and still listen to all of the new songs each week, and didn't see much at all separating it from anything else on the radio. When it started showing up on so many end-of-year lists, I thought "So why, of all the good mainstream songs this year, is this the one getting all the attention?" Since then, I've seen the rise of others, including Taylor and (gasp) even Bieber. (Who is now, suddenly, acclaimed, when the only difference I hear in his music is better production values. Some of this might be that everyone loves a good redemption story.)

Sorry for the tangent, but you definitely touched upon a subject I've been noticing for quite some time now! Perhaps it's just jealousy that Nightwish and Evanescence don't garner the same level of attention. :P
No need to feel sorry, I was the one who brought it up in the first place because I find it worth studying, as I said ;)

Most generally, I use different criteria to evaluate different music styles, so I can appreciate both Carly Rae Jepsen and, say, Captain Beefheart or Sun Ra, to choose other extremes. The issue of notoriety is a different matter entirely, and a fascinating one at that, but I already discussed it at lengths elsewhere and I don't really like to repeat myself ;)
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Re: Rolling Stone (USA) - The 100 Greatest Metal Albums of All Time (2017)

Post by babydoll »

jamieW wrote:Since then, I've seen the rise of others, including Taylor and (gasp) even Bieber. (Who is now, suddenly, acclaimed, when the only difference I hear in his music is better production values. Some of this might be that everyone loves a good redemption story.)
His voice is also tolerably listenable now. It's deeper and it doesn't sound so painfully prepubescent like it used to. Seriously, listen to "Baby" then listen to "Where Are Ü Now?" The difference between the two are significant.

I must also confess that I never thought I would ever live to say that I actually like two Justin Bieber songs: the aforementioned "Where Are Ü Now?" and "What Do You Mean".
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Re: Rolling Stone (USA) - The 100 Greatest Metal Albums of All Time (2017)

Post by jamieW »

babydoll wrote:
jamieW wrote:Since then, I've seen the rise of others, including Taylor and (gasp) even Bieber. (Who is now, suddenly, acclaimed, when the only difference I hear in his music is better production values. Some of this might be that everyone loves a good redemption story.)
His voice is also tolerably listenable now. It's deeper and it doesn't sound so painfully prepubescent like it used to. Seriously, listen to "Baby" then listen to "Where Are Ü Now?" The difference between the two are significant.
This is probably part of it, too. (And I do hear the change you're referring to.) I guess I hadn't noticed because growing up has been a rather slow, gradual process for Mr. Bieber. :P
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Re: Rolling Stone (USA) - The 100 Greatest Metal Albums of All Time (2017)

Post by VacantJoy »

they haven't created a top 100 hard rock albums list
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