ZEIT (Germany): 100 Modern Classics

JR
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ZEIT (Germany): 100 Modern Classics

Postby JR » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:52 pm

http://www.zeit.de/musik/Themenseiten/1 ... iker-liste

From 2007. I couldn't find a thread for this in the old forum, so here's one for the record books. I put the titles in numerical order; the link lists them alphabetically, with their rank in parentheses.

The ones with a ?, there is no title listed. In the text for some of those., multiple titles/compilations look to be mentioned.

1. John Cage: 4'33''
2. John Coltrane: A Love Supreme
3. Igor Strawinsky: Le Sacre du Printemps
4. Elvis Presley: The Sun Sessions
5. György Ligeti: Atmosphères
6. The Velvet Underground: The Velvet Underground & Nico
7. The Quintet: Jazz At Massey Hall
8. Steve Reich: Music for 18 Musicians
9. The Beach Boys: Surfer Girl/Shut Down Vol. 2
10. Edgar Varèse: Ionisation
11. Miles Davis & Gil Evans: The Complete Columbia Studio Recordings
12. Marvin Gaye: What's Going On.
13. Olivier Messiaen: Quatuor pour la fin du temps
14. Kraftwerk: Die Mensch-Maschine
15. Billie Holiday: ?
16. Béla Bartók: Viertes Streichquartett
17. The Pogues: Rum, Sodomy & The Lash
18. Anton Webern: Variationen op. 27
19. Duke Ellington: ?
20. Hans Werner Henze: Nachtstücke und Arien
21. Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five: The Message.
22. Ornette Coleman: At The Golden Circle
23. Luciano Berio: Sinfonia.
24. Michael Jackson: Thriller
25. Luigi Nono: Prometeo
26. Wonder, Stevie: Songs In The Key Of Life
27. Helmut Lachenmann: Das Mädchen mit den Schwefelhölzern
28 Thelonious Monk: 85th Birthday Celebration
29. Krzysztof Penderecki: Lukas-Passion
30. Prince: Sign O' The Times
31. Frank Sinatra: Only The Lonely
32. Randy Newman: Good Old Boys
33. Hanns Eisler: Deutsche Sinfonie
34. Louis Armstrong: The Complete Hot Five & Hot Seven Recordings
35. John Chowning: Turenas, Stria, Phoné, Sabelithe
36. Neil Young: Rust Never Sleeps
37. Heiner Goebbels: Hörstücke nach Texten von Heiner Müller
38. Lennie Tristano: Manhattan Studio.
39 Ennio Morricone: Movie Masterpieces
40. Leoš Janáček: Auf verwachsenem Pfade
41. John Cale: Paris 1919
42. Sonny Rollins: A Night At The Village Vanguard
43. Kate Bush: Wuthering Heights
44. György Kurtág: Botschaften
45. The Beatles: Revolver
46. Klaus Doldinger: Tatort
47. Bob Dylan: The Basement Tapes
48. Ella Fitzgerald: Songs In A Mellow Mood.
49. The Rolling Stones: Get Yer Ya Ya's Out
50. Pierre Schaeffer: L'Oeuvre Musicale
51. Gerry Mulligan: The Original Quartet with Chet Baker
52. Captain Beefheart: Trout Mask Replica
53. Zimmermann, Bernd Alois: Requiem für einen jungen Dichter
54. David Byrne & Brian Eno: My Life In The Bush Of Ghosts.
55. Arnold Schönberg: Erwartung
56. Stan Getz: Anniversary
57. Erik Satie: Klavierwerke
58. David Bowie: Hunky Dory
59. Charles Mingus: At UCLA
60. Alban Berg: Wozzeck
61. Nico: The Frozen Borderline 1968-1970
62 Gérard Grisey: Quatre chants pour franchir le seuil.
63. The Allman Brothers: At Fillmore East
64. Mark Johnson: Bass Desires
65. Karlheinz Stockhausen: Gruppen
66. Steely Dan: Aja
67. Chet Baker: The Complete 1953–54 Studio Recordings
68. Dmitri Schostakowitsch: Die Streichquartette
69. The Clash: London Calling
70. Wolfgang Rihm: Jagden und Formen
71. Coleman Hawkins: The Hawk Swings 1 & 2.
72. Sly & The Family Stone: There's A Riot Goin' On
73. Pierre Boulez: Le Marteau sans maître
74. Nirvana: Bleach
75. Bill Evans: The Complete Village Vanguard Recordings
76. Xenakis, Iannis: Orchestral Works and Chamber Music.
77. James Brown: Say It Loud – I'm Black And I'm Proud
78. Leonard Bernstein: Wonderful Town
79. Slayer: Reign In Blood
80. Cecil Taylor & The Feel Trio: Looking Berlin Version
81. Mauricio Kagel: Exotica
82. Count Basie: ?
83. The Smiths: The Smiths
84. Salvatore Sciarrino: Luci mie traditrici
85. Paul Bley: Open, To Love
86. Joy Division: Unknown Pleasures
87. Beat Furrer: Fama
88. Fairport Convention: Liege & Lief
89. Benjamin Britten: War Requiem
90. Django Reinhardt: Swing From Paris
91. Prefab Sprout: Steve McQueen
92. Witold Lutosławski: Streichquartett
93. Albert Ayler. Spiritual Unity
94. Madonna. Madonna
95. Heinz Holliger: Beseit und Alb-Chehr
96. Fela Kuti: ?
97. Jean Sibelius: Sinfonie Nr. 4
98. Keith Jarrett: The Köln Concert
99. Elliot Carter: Streichquartette Nr. 1 und 4
100. Zappa, Frank: You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore

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Re: ZEIT (Germany): 100 Modern Classics

Postby Daniel » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:08 pm

It annoys me that this could help solidify the inclusion of the essentially anti-music "4'33" in the Top 3000.

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Re: ZEIT (Germany): 100 Modern Classics

Postby JR » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:56 pm

Is Cage's entry for the album or track? All the other entries look to be albums.

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Re: ZEIT (Germany): 100 Modern Classics

Postby Sweepstakes Ron » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:36 pm

Daniel wrote:It annoys me that this could help solidify the inclusion of the essentially anti-music "4'33" in the Top 3000.

"Solidify the inclusion" nothing. "4:33" is already in the top 3000 songs!

I don't know how this list would affect it, though, since it is what AM considers a song put in a list of albums.
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Re: ZEIT (Germany): 100 Modern Classics

Postby Daniel » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:30 am

Sweepstakes Ron wrote:
Daniel wrote:It annoys me that this could help solidify the inclusion of the essentially anti-music "4'33" in the Top 3000.

"Solidify the inclusion" nothing. "4:33" is already in the top 3000 songs!

I am aware that it is currently in the top 3000 songs, but it's currently at #2402. Nearly 100 (97 to be exact) songs that were ranked higher than #2402 in the 2011 update of the top 3000 songs dropped out of the top 3000 this year. If Bob Marley's beautiful "Three Little Birds" can drop from #1626 straight off the list, I think it says a lot about how songs can easily lose their respectable top 3000 status if they don't maintain a presence on critics' lists. If this list is eligible to count towards the AM ranking of "4:33," its #1 position will no doubt help it shoot up the chart, and we may have to see it sticking around for awhile and hope that this is the last critics list that will ever include this overrated performance piece. If critics want to compile a list of the greatest performance pieces of all time, I have no problem with this being there. But to include this with the greatest songs and recordings is an insult to the millions (billions?) of songs that don't get as much love from critics.

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Re: ZEIT (Germany): 100 Modern Classics

Postby Jeff » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:15 am

Kate Bush's "Wuthering Heights" is also cited, so Cage's 4'33" is not the only 'song' listed (there might be others, I haven't looked that closely). I am not sure how AM handles classical compositions though, at least ones from before the album era, and this list is full of pre-ablum era classical compositions. Most of the articles cite a recording in these instances, so would the list count toward the release specified or the piece itself? If the latter, how would it be determined if it should count as an album or a song? (For example, Alban Berg's Wozzeck lists a recording by the Hamburg Philharmonic conducted by Ingo Metzmacher, how would it appear on the site?)

For 4'33" a specific release is not specified, which makes sense as a recording of it would kind of defeat the purpose.

Edit: "The Message" by Grandmaster Flash is also a song. There are also shorter classical pieces like Ligeti's Atmospheres (~8-10 minutes).

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Re: ZEIT (Germany): 100 Modern Classics

Postby Henrik » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:24 am

To be able to include this list, I would appreciate some help. If you could indicate for each entry one of the following:
-song
-album
-compilation
-classical interpretation

The last two categories are ineligible.

Classical music is difficult indeed. There are some albums included at AM, but only those by modern composers where there's an initial "definitive" release. Let's discuss if there's any uncertainty!
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Re: ZEIT (Germany): 100 Modern Classics

Postby JR » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:52 pm

Yes- I paused at "Wuthering Heights,." but I wasn't sure off-hand if she had an album/compilation go by that name, etc. :mrgreen:

There have been other lists in which both albums and tracks appeared.

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Re: ZEIT (Germany): 100 Modern Classics

Postby Jeff » Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:11 am

I've gone through and listed them by release type as requested. I've made notes in parenthesis when I am unsure about an entry's classification.

Albums
2. John Coltrane: A Love Supreme
6. The Velvet Underground: The Velvet Underground & Nico
7. The Quintet: Jazz At Massey Hall
8. Steve Reich: Music for 18 Musicians
9. The Beach Boys: Surfer Girl / Shut Down Vol. 2 (This is two LP studio albums on one CD)
11. Miles Davis & Gil Evans: The Complete Columbia Studio Recordings (This is a box set that compiles the studio albums Miles Ahead, Porgy and Bess, Sketches of Spain, and Quiet Nights.)
12. Marvin Gaye: What's Going On.
14. Kraftwerk: Die Mensch-Maschine
17. The Pogues: Rum, Sodomy & The Lash
22. Ornette Coleman: At The Golden Circle
24. Michael Jackson: Thriller
26. Wonder, Stevie: Songs In The Key Of Life
29. Krzysztof Penderecki: Lukas-Passion (Composer conducting the debut performance of his own work.)
30. Prince: Sign O' The Times
31. Frank Sinatra: Only The Lonely
32. Randy Newman: Good Old Boys
35. John Chowning: Turenas, Stria, Phoné, Sabelithe
36. Neil Young: Rust Never Sleeps
38. Lennie Tristano: Manhattan Studio.
41. John Cale: Paris 1919
42. Sonny Rollins: A Night At The Village Vanguard
45. The Beatles: Revolver
47. Bob Dylan: The Basement Tapes
48. Ella Fitzgerald: Songs In A Mellow Mood.
49. The Rolling Stones: Get Yer Ya Ya's Out
51. Gerry Mulligan: The Original Quartet with Chet Baker
52. Captain Beefheart: Trout Mask Replica
54. David Byrne & Brian Eno: My Life In The Bush Of Ghosts.
56. Stan Getz: Anniversary (Stan Getz & Kenny Barron: People Time is also cited for this entry alongside Anniversary. I imagine it was not listed on the home page of the list in order to keep all entries on a single line.)
58. David Bowie: Hunky Dory
59. Charles Mingus: At UCLA
63. The Allman Brothers: At Fillmore East
64. Mark Johnson: Bass Desires
66. Steely Dan: Aja
69. The Clash: London Calling
72. Sly & The Family Stone: There's A Riot Goin' On
73. Pierre Boulez: Le Marteau sans maître (Composer conducting the debut performance of his own work.)
74. Nirvana: Bleach
75. Bill Evans: The Complete Village Vanguard Recordings (This is an expanded reissue of Evans’ Sunday at the Village Vanguard.)
78. Leonard Bernstein: Wonderful Town (I imagine that this is illegible because it is the original Broadway cast recording.)
79. Slayer: Reign In Blood
80. Cecil Taylor & The Feel Trio: Looking Berlin Version
81. Mauricio Kagel: Exotica (Composer conducting the debut performance of his own work.)
83. The Smiths: The Smiths
85. Paul Bley: Open, To Love
86. Joy Division: Unknown Pleasures
88. Fairport Convention: Liege & Lief
91. Prefab Sprout: Steve McQueen
93. Albert Ayler. Spiritual Unity
94. Madonna. Madonna
95. Heinz Holliger: Beseit und Alb-Chehr (Composer conducting the debut performance of his own work)
98. Keith Jarrett: The Köln Concert
100. Zappa, Frank: You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore

Songs
1. John Cage: 4'33''
5. György Ligeti: Atmosphères
21. Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five: The Message.
43. Kate Bush: Wuthering Heights
46. Klaus Doldinger: Tatort (The theme song from the TV show of the same name.)
77. James Brown: Say It Loud – I'm Black And I'm Proud

Compilations
4. Elvis Presley: The Sun Sessions
28 Thelonious Monk: 85th Birthday Celebration
34. Louis Armstrong: The Complete Hot Five & Hot Seven Recordings
50. Pierre Schaeffer: L'Oeuvre Musicale
61. Nico: The Frozen Borderline 1968-1970
67. Chet Baker: The Complete 1953–54 Studio Recordings
71. Coleman Hawkins: The Hawk Swings 1 & 2.
82. Count Basie: The Essential Count Basie
90. Django Reinhardt: Swing From Paris

Classical Interpretations
3. Igor Strawinsky: Le Sacre du Printemps
10. Edgar Varèse: Ionisation
13. Olivier Messiaen: Quatuor pour la fin du temps
16. Béla Bartók: Viertes Streichquartett
18. Anton Webern: Variationen op. 27
20. Hans Werner Henze: Nachtstücke und Arien
25. Luigi Nono: Prometeo
27. Helmut Lachenmann: Das Mädchen mit den Schwefelhölzern
33. Hanns Eisler: Deutsche Sinfonie
37. Heiner Goebbels: Hörstücke nach Texten von Heiner Müller (Radio plays.)
40. Leoš Janáček: Auf verwachsenem Pfade
44. György Kurtág: Botschaften
53. Zimmermann, Bernd Alois: Requiem für einen jungen Dichter
55. Arnold Schönberg: Erwartung
57. Erik Satie: Klavierwerke
60. Alban Berg: Wozzeck
62 Gérard Grisey: Quatre chants pour franchir le seuil.
65. Karlheinz Stockhausen: Gruppen
68. Dmitri Schostakowitsch: Die Streichquartette
70. Wolfgang Rihm: Jagden und Formen
76. Xenakis, Iannis: Orchestral Works and Chamber Music.
84. Salvatore Sciarrino: Luci mie traditrici
87. Beat Furrer: Fama (Not an interpretation, but a piece of sound art. I assume that it is not eligible.)
89. Benjamin Britten: War Requiem
92. Witold Lutosławski: Streichquartett
97. Jean Sibelius: Sinfonie Nr. 4
99. Elliot Carter: Streichquartette Nr. 1 und 4

Unsure
19. Duke Ellington: ? (The article identifies 1940-1942 as his peak years and mentions several recordings from that period.)

Ineligible
15. Billie Holiday: ? (Article just talks about Holiday and does not mention any specific recordings or songs.)
23. Luciano Berio: Sinfonia (This is a classical work from 1968. However, the article does not cite any recording / interpretation of it.)
39 Ennio Morricone: Movie Masterpieces (Essentially an entry for all of his movie scores. No recording is cited in particular.)
96. Fela Kuti: ? (Article mentions The Best of the Black President as recommended starting point, which is a compilation in any event.)

Edit: Updated the categories as per Henrik's comments below.
Last edited by Jeff on Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ZEIT (Germany): 100 Modern Classics

Postby Henrik » Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:27 am

Many thanks, Jeff!

Comments on the unsure ones:
5. György Ligeti: Atmosphères (A shorter classical work of around 8-10 minutes. Ligeti conducted the debut himself and it is this version that the article cites. I see it as a similar case as Cage’s 4’33”.) Song
11. Miles Davis & Gil Evans: The Complete Columbia Studio Recordings (This is a box set that compiles the studio albums Miles Ahead, Porgy and Bess, Sketches of Spain, and Quiet Nights.) I could include all these albums with 25% weight for each.
15. Billie Holiday: ? (Article just talks about Holiday and does not mention any specific recordings or songs.) Nothing
19. Duke Ellington: ? (The article identifies 1940-1942 as his peak years and mentions several recordings from that period.) Nothing(?)
23. Luciano Berio: Sinfonia (This is a classical work from 1968. However, the article does not cite any recording / interpretation of it.) I suppose this can not be included then.
39 Ennio Morricone: Movie Masterpieces (Essentially an entry for all of his movie scores. No recording is cited in particular.) Nothing
75. Bill Evans: The Complete Village Vanguard Recordings (This is an expanded reissue of Evans’ Sunday at the Village Vanguard.) Album
96. Fela Kuti: ? (Article mentions The Best of the Black President as recommended starting point, which is a compilation in any event.) Nothing
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Re: ZEIT (Germany): 100 Modern Classics

Postby Jeff » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:04 pm

Henrik wrote:Many thanks, Jeff!

19. Duke Ellington: ? (The article identifies 1940-1942 as his peak years and mentions several recordings from that period.) Nothing(?)


I guess I got a bit lazy with the Ellington entry :whistle:. The article recommends the songs "Harlem Air Shaft," "Sepia Panorama," and "Warm Valley" as well as the album Duke Ellington at Fargo, 1940 Live as being the standouts from his peak years.

For convenience, I edited my post above so that the entries I was unsure about are placed in the right category as per your comments.

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Re: ZEIT (Germany): 100 Modern Classics

Postby Harold » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:43 pm

Henrik wrote:75. Bill Evans: The Complete Village Vanguard Recordings (This is an expanded reissue of Evans’ Sunday at the Village Vanguard.) Album]


Please note that this would apply to both Sunday at the Village Vanguard and Waltz for Debby, which was also taken from the Village Vanguard performances.

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Re: ZEIT (Germany): 100 Modern Classics

Postby Henrik » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:50 pm

Harold wrote:
Henrik wrote:75. Bill Evans: The Complete Village Vanguard Recordings (This is an expanded reissue of Evans’ Sunday at the Village Vanguard.) Album]


Please note that this would apply to both Sunday at the Village Vanguard and Waltz for Debby, which was also taken from the Village Vanguard performances.

Oops, that's right. Probably it would be good if someone could go through the previous listings for Sunday at the Village Vanguard and check if Waltz for Debby was also counted for whenever The Complete Village Vanguard Recordings was listed.
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Re: ZEIT (Germany): 100 Modern Classics

Postby Henrik » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:53 pm

Jeff wrote:
Henrik wrote:Many thanks, Jeff!

19. Duke Ellington: ? (The article identifies 1940-1942 as his peak years and mentions several recordings from that period.) Nothing(?)


I guess I got a bit lazy with the Ellington entry :whistle:. The article recommends the songs "Harlem Air Shaft," "Sepia Panorama," and "Warm Valley" as well as the album Duke Ellington at Fargo, 1940 Live as being the standouts from his peak years.

This is getting rather messy... Is this the only entry with several songs mentioned?

I guess I could check this myself, but I'm busy with other things at the moment. :whistle:
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Re: ZEIT (Germany): 100 Modern Classics

Postby Jeff » Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:37 pm

Henrik wrote:
Jeff wrote:
Henrik wrote:Many thanks, Jeff!

19. Duke Ellington: ? (The article identifies 1940-1942 as his peak years and mentions several recordings from that period.) Nothing(?)


I guess I got a bit lazy with the Ellington entry :whistle:. The article recommends the songs "Harlem Air Shaft," "Sepia Panorama," and "Warm Valley" as well as the album Duke Ellington at Fargo, 1940 Live as being the standouts from his peak years.

This is getting rather messy... Is this the only entry with several songs mentioned?

I guess I could check this myself, but I'm busy with other things at the moment. :whistle:


It doesn't cite the songs in the same fashion as the articles for the other entries with actual recommended recordings. It basically just lists some Ellington songs in a sentence after talking about his importance. It probably should be handled the same way as the other entries which are more about an artist than specific albums or songs (like the Billie Holiday and Fela Kuti ones).

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Re: ZEIT (Germany): 100 Modern Classics

Postby Henrik » Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:14 pm

OK. Thanks again!
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