Upcoming 80s Poll: Any takers?

Listyguy · Post by **Listyguy** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:40 pm

With the final results on the 90s poll being unveiled now, it's almost time to start the 80s poll. Brad brought it up briefly a couple of weeks ago, but nothing actually got accomplished. I'm willing to do the poll, unless anyone is really excited about the 80s and would prefer to do it.

nicolas · Post by **nicolas** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:02 pm

Man, do you know what you're up to ? hahahahaha... no that's great but time consuming for sure

Post by **Henrik** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:44 am

That's great, Listyguy! Thank you!

But, does someone really need to be responsible for the whole decade? Perhaps we could have different hosts for each year and the final decade poll?

Moonbeam · Post by **Moonbeam** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:22 pm

Henrik wrote:That's great, Listyguy! Thank you!

But, does someone really need to be responsible for the whole decade? Perhaps we could have different hosts for each year and the final decade poll?

I might chip in to help in this instance. I can't commit to a full year of poll responsibility, as I'm going to be a first-time Dad in June! But I might be able to help at times.

Post by **Henrik** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:11 pm

Wow Moonbeam, congratulations!!!!!!

nicolas · Post by **nicolas** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:15 pm

I won't be able to help but Henrik's suggestion is great. And I suggest that 2 people do the final presentation and calculations. One the albums and the other the songs.

And most important : CONGRATS Moonbeam. I suspected it from your Facebook posts but now I'm sure !! Welcome to the other world.

Do you know if it's a boy or a girl? Or do you prefer the surprise? And what if your child tells you that 8s are purple?

Listyguy · Post by **Listyguy** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:50 pm

Congratulations, Moonbeam! That's great news for you.

As for Henrik's, I like it. Maybe we could have two people run the poll, alternating the years and each taking one of the final polls.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:06 pm

Pleased for you, Moonbeam. Here's hoping she/he has your rhythm!

Post by **Honorio** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:05 pm

Congrats, Moonbeam. And welcome to the club! The fertility rate in AM Forum is getting higher!

Henry · Post by **Henry** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:08 pm

Congratulations Moonbeam! I look forward to videos in 5-10 years where you and your child dance together.

Zorg · Post by **Zorg** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:10 pm

Honorio wrote:Congrats, Moonbeam. And welcome to the club! The fertility rate in AM Forum is getting higher!

Bwahahahahahaha. Congratulations, Moonbeam!

Moonbeam · Post by **Moonbeam** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:31 pm

Thanks for the good wishes, everyone! I'm giddy with excitement am already introducing our boy (nicknamed Blasty for now, short for blastocyst) to some wicked funk in utero.

jamieW · Post by **jamieW** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:43 am

Moonbeam wrote:Thanks for the good wishes, everyone! I'm giddy with excitement am already introducing our boy (nicknamed Blasty for now, short for blastocyst) to some wicked funk in utero.

Congratulations, Moonbeam! After what you said, I now have an image of your baby exiting the womb dancing to "You Dropped a Bomb on Me"!

Moonbeam · Post by **Moonbeam** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:04 am

jamieW wrote:
Moonbeam wrote:Thanks for the good wishes, everyone! I'm giddy with excitement am already introducing our boy (nicknamed Blasty for now, short for blastocyst) to some wicked funk in utero.
Congratulations, Moonbeam! After what you said, I now have an image of your baby exiting the womb dancing to "You Dropped a Bomb on Me"!

I can only hope! You dropped a bomb on me, BABY!

I might post another video I recorded awhile ago for our baby.

Back on topic, I could probably host some of the earlier years and help with the final presentation.

Bruno · Post by **Bruno** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:26 am

Congratulations, Moonbeam!

Listyguy · Post by **Listyguy** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:28 am

Moonbeam wrote: Back on topic, I could probably host some of the earlier years and help with the final presentation.

How many would you want to take? Based on the system we've used in previous years, there will be four before then.
February - 80
March - 81
April - 82
May - 83
June - 84
July - 85
August - 86
September - 87
October - 88
November - 89

Moonbeam · Post by **Moonbeam** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:50 am

I could probably host the first 3. May is tricky as the baby may come early.

Listyguy · Post by **Listyguy** » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:44 am

Moonbeam wrote:I could probably host the first 3. May is tricky as the baby may come early.

Yeah, that's fine. You can do from ~~Dirty Mind to 1999~~ 80 to 82, and one of the finals.

Moonbeam · Post by **Moonbeam** » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:38 am

Listyguy wrote:
Moonbeam wrote:I could probably host the first 3. May is tricky as the baby may come early.
Yeah, that's fine. You can do from ~~Dirty Mind to 1999~~ 80 to 82, and one of the finals.

Dirty Mind to 1999 it is! I might be able to do some months later in the year, but I don't want to commit to anything not knowing how things are going to be with a baby.

Listyguy · Post by **Listyguy** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:13 pm

Moonbeam wrote:
Listyguy wrote:
Moonbeam wrote:I could probably host the first 3. May is tricky as the baby may come early.
Yeah, that's fine. You can do from ~~Dirty Mind to 1999~~ 80 to 82, and one of the finals.
Dirty Mind to 1999 it is! I might be able to do some months later in the year, but I don't want to commit to anything not knowing how things are going to be with a baby.

Okay, we'll stick with this for now. If you're up to it you can maybe take the last two for an ever split of the years. If not, I'll take them, it's not a big deal.

Listyguy · Post by **Listyguy** » Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:04 pm

Moonbeam, just confirming you'll be starting up the first poll in a week.

Moonbeam · Post by **Moonbeam** » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:38 pm

Listyguy wrote:Moonbeam, just confirming you'll be starting up the first poll in a week.

Yup! Have we determined how many albums/songs to count from each list and what the scoring system will be? What about the rule that at least one non-Anglophone album and song would be included?

We need a main thread that provides these details and links to the individual year polls. Maybe we can use this one to sort it out and go from there?

Listyguy · Post by **Listyguy** » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:30 am

Moonbeam wrote: Yup! Have we determined how many albums/songs to count from each list and what the scoring system will be? What about the rule that at least one non-Anglophone album and song would be included?

We need a main thread that provides these details and links to the individual year polls. Maybe we can use this one to sort it out and go from there?

I guess we can use the same system as the 90's poll, with 15 songs and albums per year and at least one non-Anglophone each.
I agree, we can set up the main thread after we get everything ironed out.

Moonbeam · Post by **Moonbeam** » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:44 am

I'd be happy to extend it to 20 songs and albums per year, but that might be considered excessive. I do think it's a bit weird to require at least one non-Anglophone album and song to make the cut, but it does have the positive impact of exposing us to music we might not have discovered otherwise.

Listyguy · Post by **Listyguy** » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:55 am

Moonbeam wrote:I'd be happy to extend it to 20 songs and albums per year, but that might be considered excessive. I do think it's a bit weird to require at least one non-Anglophone album and song to make the cut, but it does have the positive impact of exposing us to music we might not have discovered otherwise.

20 would definitely be excessive for albums, maybe not for songs, but maybe we should just keep it consistent. I'm fine with keeping the non-Anglos for the exposure of lesser known work for us stuck up English music snobs.

Moonbeam · Post by **Moonbeam** » Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:10 am

Listyguy wrote:
Moonbeam wrote:I'd be happy to extend it to 20 songs and albums per year, but that might be considered excessive. I do think it's a bit weird to require at least one non-Anglophone album and song to make the cut, but it does have the positive impact of exposing us to music we might not have discovered otherwise.
20 would definitely be excessive for albums, maybe not for songs, but maybe we should just keep it consistent. I'm fine with keeping the non-Anglos for the exposure of lesser known work for us stuck up English music snobs.

I guess my main quibble about the non-Anglophone rule is that it gives off a feeling that these albums and songs need extra help to be worthy. And why stop there? There is plenty of other music that is underrepresented. Why not mandate that at least one jazz and classical piece be included? Or instrumental pieces? Or music sung by females? Or italo disco tracks? I'm all for the extra exposure, but the affirmative action policy just gives me a funny vibe.

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:23 am

Moonbeam, I'm 100% with you on this one. Ordinarily I share our poll results here with a few friends. This last time I didn't, because I pretty much knew how the conversation would go: "Hey, great list! Very interesting to see all these non-Anglophone albums mixed in there with the usual suspects!" "Well, to be perfectly honest...."

I would love it if our lists had more non-Anglophone music (and more rap, and more country, and more metal, and more women, etc. etc.), but it feels icky to rig it so that they end up there no matter what. If that's not the taste of the forum, well....

Let's make ample use of the recommendation thread to share personal favorites from genres generally ignored by critics, and if people want to listen and end up liking them - awesome. But let's not go around setting quotas and all that.

Post by **Henrik** » Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:13 am

Moonbeam wrote:
Listyguy wrote:
Moonbeam wrote:I'd be happy to extend it to 20 songs and albums per year, but that might be considered excessive. I do think it's a bit weird to require at least one non-Anglophone album and song to make the cut, but it does have the positive impact of exposing us to music we might not have discovered otherwise.
20 would definitely be excessive for albums, maybe not for songs, but maybe we should just keep it consistent. I'm fine with keeping the non-Anglos for the exposure of lesser known work for us stuck up English music snobs.
I guess my main quibble about the non-Anglophone rule is that it gives off a feeling that these albums and songs need extra help to be worthy. And why stop there? There is plenty of other music that is underrepresented. Why not mandate that at least one jazz and classical piece be included? Or instrumental pieces? Or music sung by females? Or italo disco tracks? I'm all for the extra exposure, but the affirmative action policy just gives me a funny vibe.

The non-Anglophone albums/songs got extra help to be discovered. Well into the decade poll where everyone listened to everything, the non-Anglophone ended up just as well as the 14th album/song. So no need for the "to be perfectly honest" reply, Greg. A great list is a great list.

But I agree that there are genres that suffer just as much as non-Anglo. Maybe we could just disqualify lists with only WGWG (White Guys With Guitars)?

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:47 pm

Because it was nicolas who hosted the 90s poll (someone who clearly cares a lot about non-Anglophone music), I liked the Henrik/nicolas non-Anglophone rule - it linked the 90s poll a little more closely to the person who took the time and made the effort to run the poll. As there will be more than 1 person running the 80s poll, it would be harder to have a poll that somehow reflects the tastes or personality of the host. I'm not saying that the tastes or preferences of 1 or 2 people should have an advantage over the tastes or preferences of the forum as a whole - I just think it's nice when a host gives a poll a personal touch once in a while.

Going back to the 90s poll: 5 of the 10 non-Anglophone albums and 7 of the 11 non-Anglophone songs that made it through to the final got there without needing any help. So if someone recommends a lesser known album or song fervently enough (whatever 'genre' it is), it's likely that others will pay attention to it, or maybe even listen to it and vote for it.

I agree that we should make better use of the recommendations thread. The problem with the 90s thread was that it got too heavy with YouTube videos, so either there should be a request that posters provide links instead of videos or there should be a recommendations thread for each year.

Post by **Henrik** » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:50 pm

I think it would be good with one recommendation thread for each year. I think people should use it to make recommendations of individual songs or albums, but also or their preliminary lists if they want to. Since many of us post their lists in the beginning of the month it would be good to open up these threads right away.

Post by **Henrik** » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:53 pm

Henrik wrote:Maybe we could just disqualify lists with only WGWG (White Guys With Guitars)?

I regret this joke. It was probably one too many of the anti-only-WGWG ones.

Listyguy · Post by **Listyguy** » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:31 pm

If the recommendation thread was getting heavy with youtube, we could take advantage of the new Spotify links.

Moonbeam · Post by **Moonbeam** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:10 pm

OK, so it seems like 15 songs and 15 albums is the best option to keep it consistent with the 90s poll. I suppose that means the scoring system should be the same as well. The only open issue is the non-Anglophone rule.

Jirin · Post by **Jirin** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:32 pm

I'm in favor of the non-Anglophone rule. The question is not whether they need extra help to be worthy, but whether enough people have heard they exist to be aware that they are worthy.

Narrow-mindedness of most of the population of English speaking countries toward music that is not written in English causes critical publications and music labels to filter out a lot of great music before it even reaches our ears. But IMO, this poll should be about the best of all music recorded around that time, not just 'Which good albums have been listened to by the most people'.

I'm open to alternate measures to grant more exposure to less-heard albums.

I also want to see what happens if we apply the Schulze method to our final ballots.

Listyguy · Post by **Listyguy** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:10 pm

I think there are better ways to expose the non-English music than by forcing them onto the forumers (yes, I have completely changed my opinion since my last post. Moonbeam's comparing it to affirmative action was what did it). However, with the voting extended to 15 songs and album, I think more votes are being given to the non-Anglophone songs and album. As Dan pointed out, 5 albums and 7 songs in the 90's poll didn't need help to get in. They were in the top 15 for their year.

By the way, I looked up the Schulze method and now have a headache.

Moonbeam · Post by **Moonbeam** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:16 pm

Yeah, I'm still opposed to the non-Anglophone rule. I think better use of the recommendation threads would be the solution to exposing other posters to rare songs.

Listyguy · Post by **Listyguy** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:33 pm

Moonbeam wrote:Yeah, I'm still opposed to the non-Anglophone rule. I think better use of the recommendation threads would be the solution to exposing other posters to rare songs.

I'm pretty much in agreement with this. The recommendation thread has already showed me an excellent African band (courtesy of Henrik) that I need to listen to the full album for.

Jirin · Post by **Jirin** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:38 pm

I see it as more 'evening the playing field'.

Having a plurality vote between albums everybody has heard and albums nobody has been exposed to is like a tennis match where one player has a graphite racquet and the other has a wooden racquet.

Moonbeam · Post by **Moonbeam** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:43 pm

Jirin wrote:I see it as more 'evening the playing field'.

Having a plurality vote between albums everybody has heard and albums nobody has been exposed to is like a tennis match where one player has a graphite racquet and the other has a wooden racquet.

OK, but what about other music that doesn't have a big presence on this site? Why not demand that there is at least one jazz or classical piece? Being that it's the 80s, why not demand that there is an italo disco or Hi-NRG song? How about synth funk?

Listyguy · Post by **Listyguy** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:54 pm

Jirin wrote:I see it as more 'evening the playing field'.

Having a plurality vote between albums everybody has heard and albums nobody has been exposed to is like a tennis match where one player has a graphite racquet and the other has a wooden racquet.

I realize what you're getting at, but I think there are better ways to expose people than by forcing songs and albums into the poll just because they aren't in English. If there are so many that can get in without the boost (as we saw in the 90's polls), than why force the issue?

And exposure isn't necessarily needed to get into the final round. In the 1999 poll, the 15th song received 63 points. If a song gets two thirds and 10-13 vote, it can score around that. Even in 1991, when more people were voting, only 100 points were needed. That could (hypothetically) be attained with two votes.

And to be honest, is having 10 song and 10 albums not in English going to make people that don't want to listen to that music suddenly appreciate it? Doubtful.