Poll planning for best music videos / "promo films" / music film sequences

[Live in Phoenix]

I am not very good at polls. (The possible exception is the Hall of Fame poll, where each forum member can only turn in 13 entries.) I don’t really want to do a big-ass poll, and I doubt you want me to either, but as far as I know we’ve never ran a poll for best videos before, and it strikes me as a major omission. If no one else will do it, I’ll do it, but it will take a while. I’m not even sure about when to run it – isn’t there always some other kind of big poll being done? My idea is that I’d give people 3 months to submit lists of up to 300 entries, swiping Moonbeam’s poll formula from the ‘80s. Forum members could go back and revise the lists as many times as they’d like, but because of that odious practice (which I’ve been guilty of), I wouldn’t bother to tabulate anything until the deadline passed, and it’d be a hard deadline. The tabulation, and the rollout (which would have to at least look passable in comparison to other major rollouts) would take God knows how long.

What makes a music video, or a promo film, as they used to be known? Fudge if I know. I'm not even sure when the first videos (fitting a narrow or broad definition) quite started. Because the definition is vague, I assume that there could be two rollouts. One would have a narrow definition (1960s onwards, not pulled from a film, either animated or made without an audience on a studio set for one specific song, and sent to a broadcast medium). Some well-known videos have thrown in concert footage, but this definition would fit most anything that MTV would have ever broadcast in rotation, although MTV Unplugged is a can of worms, and of course MTV is no longer the dominant broadcast medium for videos. The other rollout would have an anything-goes definition. (Isn’t A Hard Day’s Night one video after another? What about "Jailhouse Rock" and Elvis movies? What about songs from concert films? Aren’t old musicals the inspiration for music videos? What about hit performances from MTV Unplugged? What about awards show performances?)

By the way, if someone else wants to do this instead, I won’t fight you hard.

[jamieW]

Hi, Live in Phoenix.

I've been thinking about running a poll like this on and off for years. Coincidentally, I was just thinking about it again yesterday. I would be willing to help with this, but I would prefer people submitting top 100 lists instead of 300 (which would make it easier to keep track and make sure there were no errors). My thought was for it to be all encompassing, as long as the voter specified the preferred video where multiple videos are available. (Viral fan made videos of "Kids" by MGMT and "Sail" by AWOLNATION spring to mind.) Please let me know your thoughts, because I would be happy to let you make all final decisions. (You were the first to suggest this, after all.)

[Live in Phoenix]

Hi, Live in Phoenix.

I've been thinking about running a poll like this on and off for years. Coincidentally, I was just thinking about it again yesterday. I would be willing to help with this, but I would prefer people submitting top 100 lists instead of 300 (which would make it easier to keep track and make sure there were no errors). My thought was for it to be all encompassing, as long as the voter specified the preferred video where multiple videos are available. (Viral fan made videos of "Kids" by MGMT and "Sail" by AWOLNATION spring to mind.) Please let me know your thoughts, because I would be happy to let you make all final decisions. (You were the first to suggest this, after all.)

Sounds like less work -- sounds great! Maybe the polls could run during September and October, and the rollout could be during December.

For the remainder of August, people can make further comments or suggestions here. I've thought of a few more.

--I'm trying to be very broad, but I want the videos to be performer-centric, instead of "2001: A Space Odyssey used Strauss (who died in the '40s) very well in this one scene." Even though we don't use the term "promo film" anymore, it's a good description in that we have performers promoting their work.

--People just have to submit one list. I (and maybe jamieW) can worry about what fits the narrow vs. broad definition of a video.

--I generally don't want to include concert footage in the narrow definition, but music videos have come to us in so many different ways. (Nirvana's "Lithium," Pearl Jam's "Even Flow," and Metallica's "Sad but True" come to mind.) I might use what I call the "MTV exception" -- if something was put into massive rotation on MTV or a similar music video medium, it becomes pointless saying that it wasn't a music video even by narrow standards.

[Live in Phoenix]

Moonbeam's formula for 300 entries was 300/(rank + 2). So I could just change it to 100/(rank + 2), I think...

[jamieW]

All of that sounds good, Live in Phoenix. I'll let you establish all the rules. When I helped run the pre-'60's poll, I calculated the results and DaveC handled the presentation. I'd be up for that again if you're okay with the presentation portion. Your time frame sounds like it would work well, too. (End of August to establish rules, end of October for lists, December for presentation.)

Thanks for recommending this! Hopefully, there will be some interest. As a child of the eighties, I grew up with music videos, but I don't know how relevant they've remained since MTV decided to go the "reality TV" direction instead...

[Live in Phoenix]

When I'd listen to notable songs from the 2010s, there was usually a YouTube video. I'd say the high end of these videos was produced as well if not better than anything I grew up on during the '80s and '90s. I miss the MTV experience at its best of different genre hits being played back to back while you just sat back and watched, along with the shared cultural experience, but there's still a sizable audience out there for watching new videos, just not on MTV.

I think my criteria will just be, list your favorite videos, whatever you think of as a video, from musicals to the present day. This could produce an odd entry here or there, but it'd have to be exceptional to gain serious traction in the final poll (meaning there probably only needs to be 1 rollout). Rollouts typically start with whatever received 2 votes, so I guess that's where I'd start.

I think I should be ok with the presentation portion, assuming a typical rollout entry would look something like this:

666. Peter Gabriel | Sledgehammer
(531 Points | 16 Votes)
Director: Stephen R. Johnson
Single Release: 1986

Biggest Fans:
Winkin (#11)
Blinkin (#15)
Nod (#17)

[Live in Phoenix]

Well, I'm glad there's so little for us all to disagree about, ha ha.

Dumb question, when it comes time to note the number of voters per selection, and the biggest fan(s), do I just eyeball that? I'm semi-literate in Excel and I know I can manipulate columns to my liking, but I don't think it works the same for rows.

[Holden]

Well, I'm glad there's so little for us all to disagree about, ha ha.

Dumb question, when it comes time to note the number of voters per selection, and the biggest fan(s), do I just eyeball that? I'm semi-literate in Excel and I know I can manipulate columns to my liking, but I don't think it works the same for rows.

There’s a function in excel where you can COUNT(Selection)
For biggest fan I always do conditional formatting so that 1-10 (or whatever) are highlighted to make it easier to eyeball.

[Live in Phoenix]

Thank you Holden. I didn't want this to be the toughest part of the rollout. I called up an old Excel spreadsheet, created the formula =COUNT(B2:Q2) in an adjacent cell and right-click copied the cell, then clicked on the whole column and pasted, and voila, one of those things I'm sure I was once taught during a one-day Excel course

What do you mean by conditional formatting, though?

Note to self:
Highlight entire spreadsheet, Conditional Formatting, Highlight Cells Rules, Equal To..., 1 (for instance); with Light Red Fill (for instance)

Highlight entire spreadsheet, Conditional Formatting, Highlight Cells Rules, Between..., 2 and 10 (for instance)

[acroamor]

Thank you Holden. I didn't want this to be the toughest part of the rollout. I called up an old Excel spreadsheet, created the formula =COUNT(B2:Q2) in an adjacent cell and right-click copied the cell, then clicked on the whole column and pasted, and voila, one of those things I'm sure I was once taught during a one-day Excel course

What do you mean by conditional formatting, though?

Depending on your version of Excel, you should be able to find an option called Conditional Formatting that lets you apply a quality (text color, cell color, etc.) to cells that meet a certain requirement. For example, when I did the EOD spreadsheet, I used it to mark anyone's number 1 as one color and any other album from their top 10 as another, which made the biggest fans much easier to spot.

Also, I honestly feel like running polls on this forum should be something I could cite on a job application - I've certainly learned much more about Excel doing that than at any of my actual jobs.

[Holden]

Thank you Holden. I didn't want this to be the toughest part of the rollout. I called up an old Excel spreadsheet, created the formula =COUNT(B2:Q2) in an adjacent cell and right-click copied the cell, then clicked on the whole column and pasted, and voila, one of those things I'm sure I was once taught during a one-day Excel course

What do you mean by conditional formatting, though?

I’ll explain it in a moment, but I now realize the same effect can be achieved by just highlighting when you put the list in. I always color the boxes with the Number 1 in red and 2-10 in yellow so it because it makes biggest fan easier to see.

But if you search in the help bar for “conditional formatting” you can highlight a section (such as the section with the ranks in it) and add a rule to color them in, like selecting red for any cells containing 1 and yellow for cells containing 2-10. It’s basically a faster way of highlighting the top ranks, and that way I don’t have to remember to do it. But like I said, it is the exact same as just highlighting them manually.

[Live in Phoenix]

Thank you both, I think I've got the hang of that now.

[Live in Phoenix]

The promo clips for The Beatles' 1965 double A-side "Day Tripper / We Can Work It Out" have been called the world's first music videos as we understand the format today. Then again, "A Hard Day's Night, the movie, with its jump-cut editing and exhilarating atmosphere of speed would become the standard rock film style: every video derives from it." (Rolling Stone) But, again, I won't be picky if you select something older or unorthodox. I don't care anymore if you pick something like 2001's "Jupiter and Beyond the Infinite" sequence. At worst, these will take up a handful of spots as part of a huge rollout, and of course you need consensus to rise to the top.

If you're looking for lists, you can find all-time or century lists from Slant, NME, Billboard, Rolling Stone (1993), and MTV (1999), to name a few. God knows it's easier to check out some oddities or older videos now than in the '90s when you were at the mercy of VHS video collections or MTV/VH1 playlists.

[Live in Phoenix]

I assume no one will be bothered by a low minimum. 15 videos minimum seems fine to me. The lists don't have to be exhaustive. (I can probably list off 100, but I'll have to think about it, work on it, for a while. I wasn't even sure what my likely #1 was, and my top 10 is still up for grabs.)

[jamieW]

Coincidentally, I just found this today, put together by the staff of Billboard magazine:

https://www.billboard.com/articles/news ... eo-artists

[acroamor]

Coincidentally, I just found this today, put together by the staff of Billboard magazine:

https://www.billboard.com/articles/news ... eo-artists

That article reminded me of the existence of OK Go, an artist who'll do better on this poll than literally any other possible, with their delightful music videos and totally-unremarkable music.

[Live in Phoenix]

Not the same thing as a top 50, but these are the first 50 videos that have come to mind. (In some cases, it just means that I need to re-watch a bunch of things. The ‘90s are when I whiled away my days watching videos, but some of them are 30 f***ing years old now!)

a-ha – Take on Me
The Beatles – Can't Buy Me Love
The Beatles – A Hard Day's Night
David Bowie – Life on Mars?
The Cars – You Might Think
Childish Gambino – This Is America
Phil Collins – In the Air Tonight
Cypress Hill – How I Could Just Kill a Man
Deee-Lite – Groove Is In The Heart
Dire Straits – Money for Nothing

Peter Gabriel – Sledgehammer
Grimes – Realiti
Guns N' Roses – Estranged
Guns N' Roses – November Rain
Guns N' Roses – You Could Be Mine
Lauryn Hill – Doo Wop (That Thing)
Chris Isaak – Wicked Game
Michael Jackson – Billie Jean
Michael Jackson – Thriller
Gene Kelly – Singin' in the Rain

Metallica – One
Nine Inch Nails – Closer
Nirvana – Come As You Are
Nirvana – In Bloom
Nirvana – Smells Like Teen Spirit
Notorious B.I.G. – Hypnotize
Notorious B.I.G. feat. Puff Daddy and Mase – Mo Money Mo Problems
Robert Palmer – Addicted to Love
Pearl Jam – Evenflow
Pearl Jam – Jeremy

Elvis Presley – Jailhouse Rock
Prince and the Revolution – When Doves Cry
Queen – These Are the Days of Our Lives
Ratt – Round and Round
Red Hot Chili Peppers – Give It Away
Lou Reed – No Money Down
R.E.M. – Drive
R.E.M. – Imitation of Life
Run-D.M.C. and Aerosmith – Walk This Way
Stone Temple Pilots – Vasoline

Talking Heads – Burning Down The House
Talking Heads – Once in a Lifetime
2pac – I Get Around
2pac – Keep Ya Head Up
Van Halen – Hot for Teacher
Van Halen – Right Now
Weezer – Buddy Holly
"Weird Al" Yankovic – White & Nerdy
Neil Young – This Note's for You
Rob Zombie – Dragula

[panam]

So, can we starting sharing our lists?

[jamieW]

So, can we starting sharing our lists?

I think we originally planned to start a separate thread for that on 09/01, but I'll leave that up to Live in Phoenix. (This is technically his poll. I'm just going to be compiling & tabulating the lists.)