what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post Reply
panam
Rust Never Sleeps
Posts: 978
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:21 am

what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by panam » Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:16 am

Sorry, if i'm offtopic, but I was trying to looking for the thread about it and i couldn't find it, what happened at the end?

Edited:

I'm sharing the link of Sweepstakes Ron because it could be useful for Acclaimed Music.
Sweepstakes Ron wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:09 pm
I made a spreadsheet with all the songs where people can add the genres, if they wanna just look for them on RYM. It's not something to be completed, just something for fun in case anyone wants to work on it. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
Last edited by panam on Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Henrik
Site Admin
Posts: 5394
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:09 am
Location: Älvsjö, Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by Henrik » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:41 am

This is something that has the highest priority for me, both for the possibility to make genre lists/playlists and because genre tags will improve the AM ranking formula. But I haven’t pushed for help for a couple of reasons.

Primary reason: The genre tagging for albums uses information from rateyourmusic. For songs, I’ve been thinking that information from sonemic could be used (with proper linking to sonemic of course). However, sonemic (sort of a RYM v2.0) has been delayed several times.

Secondary reason: I have so little time for AM nowadays so I’m a bit afraid to ask for a lot of help that I will never find time to implement.
Everyone you meet fights a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. Always.

panam
Rust Never Sleeps
Posts: 978
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:21 am

Re: what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by panam » Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:16 pm

Henrik wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:41 am
This is something that has the highest priority for me, both for the possibility to make genre lists/playlists and because genre tags will improve the AM ranking formula. But I haven’t pushed for help for a couple of reasons.

Primary reason: The genre tagging for albums uses information from rateyourmusic. For songs, I’ve been thinking that information from sonemic could be used (with proper linking to sonemic of course). However, sonemic (sort of a RYM v2.0) has been delayed several times.

Secondary reason: I have so little time for AM nowadays so I’m a bit afraid to ask for a lot of help that I will never find time to implement.
Thanks Henrik for your answer. I think we will have to wait a bit for SONEMIC, but RYM already provides some information about the genres per song (click on the original album). I shall be attentive! :)

User avatar
Sweepstakes Ron
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 2174
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 3:32 pm
Location: Here, There, and Everywhere

Re: what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by Sweepstakes Ron » Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:19 pm

There's also the matter that the genre tree itself has had some significant changes that have yet to be implemented on AM (all of which I accounted for in another thread). One thing I worry about when applying genres to songs is what to do in cases where the song has a remix or alternate version that is a completely different genre, especially when multiple versions appear on different lists.
"Music is powerful, man. It speaks to a primal pit in our brains. It makes anyone want to get up and get their knees going!"
— Jake the Dog

User avatar
Sweepstakes Ron
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 2174
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 3:32 pm
Location: Here, There, and Everywhere

Re: what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by Sweepstakes Ron » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:52 pm

Actually... Henrik. can you produce a spreadsheet listing every song on AM along with their numerical IDs? I have something I want to try...
"Music is powerful, man. It speaks to a primal pit in our brains. It makes anyone want to get up and get their knees going!"
— Jake the Dog

User avatar
Edre Peraza
Let's Get It On
Posts: 227
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by Edre Peraza » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:12 am

Henrik wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:41 am
This is something that has the highest priority for me, both for the possibility to make genre lists/playlists and because genre tags will improve the AM ranking formula. But I haven’t pushed for help for a couple of reasons.

Primary reason: The genre tagging for albums uses information from rateyourmusic. For songs, I’ve been thinking that information from sonemic could be used (with proper linking to sonemic of course). However, sonemic (sort of a RYM v2.0) has been delayed several times.

Secondary reason: I have so little time for AM nowadays so I’m a bit afraid to ask for a lot of help that I will never find time to implement.
Have you thought about splitting some of the responsibles
Depeche Malone Head Day

User avatar
Henrik
Site Admin
Posts: 5394
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:09 am
Location: Älvsjö, Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by Henrik » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:53 am

Sweepstakes Ron wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:52 pm
Actually... Henrik. can you produce a spreadsheet listing every song on AM along with their numerical IDs? I have something I want to try...
In the excel sheet on the history page the IDs are hidden in column A.
Everyone you meet fights a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. Always.

User avatar
Sweepstakes Ron
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 2174
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 3:32 pm
Location: Here, There, and Everywhere

Re: what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by Sweepstakes Ron » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:09 pm

I made a spreadsheet with all the songs where people can add the genres, if they wanna just look for them on RYM. It's not something to be completed, just something for fun in case anyone wants to work on it. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
"Music is powerful, man. It speaks to a primal pit in our brains. It makes anyone want to get up and get their knees going!"
— Jake the Dog

User avatar
Henrik
Site Admin
Posts: 5394
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:09 am
Location: Älvsjö, Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by Henrik » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:26 pm

Thanks Sweepstakes Ron!!

You can remove parent genres though, as it’s unnecessary work for people to collect this. I get that automatically through programming.
Everyone you meet fights a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. Always.

panam
Rust Never Sleeps
Posts: 978
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:21 am

Re: what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by panam » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:32 pm

I think in some cases it's necessary to include a second or a third music genre especially when they're genres without the same parent, don't?

Nassim
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 1923
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:35 pm
Location: Paris

Re: what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by Nassim » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:51 pm

While we are asking for specific data : does anybody have the AM list of albums which their respective length ? Sometimes I have only 30 or 40 minutes available and wonder which album I would have the time to listen to and by the time I find a fitting album I have lost 5 of those free minutes.

User avatar
Henrik
Site Admin
Posts: 5394
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:09 am
Location: Älvsjö, Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by Henrik » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:37 pm

panam wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:32 pm
I think in some cases it's necessary to include a second or a third music genre especially when they're genres without the same parent, don't?
Not sure what you mean. Could you give an example?
Everyone you meet fights a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. Always.

Schüttelbirne
Different Class
Posts: 338
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:50 am

Re: what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by Schüttelbirne » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:57 pm

Nassim wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:51 pm
While we are asking for specific data : does anybody have the AM list of albums which their respective length ? Sometimes I have only 30 or 40 minutes available and wonder which album I would have the time to listen to and by the time I find a fitting album I have lost 5 of those free minutes.
You mean like this?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

panam
Rust Never Sleeps
Posts: 978
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:21 am

Re: what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by panam » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:59 pm

Henrik wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:37 pm
panam wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:32 pm
I think in some cases it's necessary to include a second or a third music genre especially when they're genres without the same parent, don't?
Not sure what you mean. Could you give an example?
For example: Rosalia's "Malamente"

Using the data of RYM:
https://rateyourmusic.com/release/singl ... 1-augurio/

Main genres: Flamenco Pop, Alternative R&B
Secondary genrfes: Copla, Art Pop, Trip Hop

Both main genres have no relationship at all, excluding Alternative R&B for only Flamenco Pop could be partial, I think

User avatar
Henrik
Site Admin
Posts: 5394
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:09 am
Location: Älvsjö, Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by Henrik » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:48 pm

panam wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:59 pm
Henrik wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:37 pm
panam wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:32 pm
I think in some cases it's necessary to include a second or a third music genre especially when they're genres without the same parent, don't?
Not sure what you mean. Could you give an example?
For example: Rosalia's "Malamente"

Using the data of RYM:
https://rateyourmusic.com/release/singl ... 1-augurio/

Main genres: Flamenco Pop, Alternative R&B
Secondary genrfes: Copla, Art Pop, Trip Hop

Both main genres have no relationship at all, excluding Alternative R&B for only Flamenco Pop could be partial, I think
I think you mixed up main genre and parent genre. I never said that any main genres should be removed. Anyway, Sweepstakes Ron has removed the parent genre column now.
Everyone you meet fights a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. Always.

panam
Rust Never Sleeps
Posts: 978
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:21 am

Re: what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by panam » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:01 pm

Henrik wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:48 pm
panam wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:59 pm
Henrik wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:37 pm


Not sure what you mean. Could you give an example?
For example: Rosalia's "Malamente"

Using the data of RYM:
https://rateyourmusic.com/release/singl ... 1-augurio/

Main genres: Flamenco Pop, Alternative R&B
Secondary genrfes: Copla, Art Pop, Trip Hop

Both main genres have no relationship at all, excluding Alternative R&B for only Flamenco Pop could be partial, I think
I think you mixed up main genre and parent genre. I never said that any main genres should be removed. Anyway, Sweepstakes Ron has removed the parent genre column now.
So, it's ok to write two or more genres in the genre column (maybe it's too obvious, but i wanted to write the second main genre in the next column).

User avatar
Henrik
Site Admin
Posts: 5394
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:09 am
Location: Älvsjö, Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by Henrik » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:02 pm

I think that’s what Sweepstakes Ron intended.
Everyone you meet fights a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. Always.

Nassim
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 1923
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:35 pm
Location: Paris

Re: what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by Nassim » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:30 am

Schüttelbirne wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:57 pm
Nassim wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:51 pm
While we are asking for specific data : does anybody have the AM list of albums which their respective length ? Sometimes I have only 30 or 40 minutes available and wonder which album I would have the time to listen to and by the time I find a fitting album I have lost 5 of those free minutes.
You mean like this?
Yes ! Thanks a lot !

User avatar
Henrik
Site Admin
Posts: 5394
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:09 am
Location: Älvsjö, Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by Henrik » Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:19 pm

Sweepstakes Ron wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:09 pm
I made a spreadsheet with all the songs where people can add the genres, if they wanna just look for them on RYM. It's not something to be completed, just something for fun in case anyone wants to work on it. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
If a lot of people have nothing to do under quarantine, it would be amazing if this spreadsheet could be filled out. But could more than one person update the spreadsheet at the same time?

Also, it would be a nice gesture to RYM to collect all the RYM links as well in a new column, and provide RYM links on all AM song pages. Hopefully, the links will be in a similar form whenever sonemic launches.
Everyone you meet fights a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. Always.

User avatar
Sweepstakes Ron
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 2174
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 3:32 pm
Location: Here, There, and Everywhere

Re: what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by Sweepstakes Ron » Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:52 pm

One trouble I've run into (that I haven't yet come up with a solution for) is when the genre votes for a single contrast with the individual song genres on album pages. For example:

ZZ Top - "Gimme All Your Lovin"

Single: Hard Rock, Boogie Rock (secondaries: Pop Rock, New Wave)
Album track: Hard Rock, Pop Rock (secondaries: Boogie Rock [not "bolded" on genre vote page])

I hope you weren't thinking this would be finished by the next site update. I intended this would be a long, long process.
"Music is powerful, man. It speaks to a primal pit in our brains. It makes anyone want to get up and get their knees going!"
— Jake the Dog

User avatar
Henrik
Site Admin
Posts: 5394
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:09 am
Location: Älvsjö, Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by Henrik » Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:30 pm

Sweepstakes Ron wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:52 pm
One trouble I've run into (that I haven't yet come up with a solution for) is when the genre votes for a single contrast with the individual song genres on album pages. For example:

ZZ Top - "Gimme All Your Lovin"

Single: Hard Rock, Boogie Rock (secondaries: Pop Rock, New Wave)
Album track: Hard Rock, Pop Rock (secondaries: Boogie Rock [not "bolded" on genre vote page])

I hope you weren't thinking this would be finished by the next site update. I intended this would be a long, long process.
Singles generally have more genre votes than album tracks, and might therefore be more robust. However, that’s for the whole single (A-side and B-side) so I’m not sure if anything can be recommended in general.

It would certainly be a long process, but if there’s any time to do it faster, it’s now.
Everyone you meet fights a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. Always.

panam
Rust Never Sleeps
Posts: 978
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:21 am

Re: what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by panam » Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:43 pm

Henrik wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:30 pm
Sweepstakes Ron wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:52 pm
One trouble I've run into (that I haven't yet come up with a solution for) is when the genre votes for a single contrast with the individual song genres on album pages. For example:

ZZ Top - "Gimme All Your Lovin"

Single: Hard Rock, Boogie Rock (secondaries: Pop Rock, New Wave)
Album track: Hard Rock, Pop Rock (secondaries: Boogie Rock [not "bolded" on genre vote page])

I hope you weren't thinking this would be finished by the next site update. I intended this would be a long, long process.
Singles generally have more genre votes than album tracks, and might therefore be more robust. However, that’s for the whole single (A-side and B-side) so I’m not sure if anything can be recommended in general.

It would certainly be a long process, but if there’s any time to do it faster, it’s now.
I think a better alternative could be contrast the information with Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimme_All_Your_Lovin%27

What do you think?

User avatar
Sweepstakes Ron
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 2174
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 3:32 pm
Location: Here, There, and Everywhere

Re: what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by Sweepstakes Ron » Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:47 pm

Wait, I just remembered the "additional notes" column exists. Guess these genre discrepancies would make a better use for it than anything.
"Music is powerful, man. It speaks to a primal pit in our brains. It makes anyone want to get up and get their knees going!"
— Jake the Dog

User avatar
Sweepstakes Ron
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 2174
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 3:32 pm
Location: Here, There, and Everywhere

Re: what happened to the project of tagging genres to the songs of AM Top?

Post by Sweepstakes Ron » Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:29 pm

If you want to help out, you can just use a random number generator, finding the song with the matching ID, and look that one up... and if you can't find anything, just generate another number!
"Music is powerful, man. It speaks to a primal pit in our brains. It makes anyone want to get up and get their knees going!"
— Jake the Dog

Post Reply