Acclaimed Music Forums

Good to see King Narcissism drop down a bit. Wish Kendrick Lamar and Public Enemy were higher.

Good to see Sufjan Stevens continue to rise.

Wow, 34-31 are almost interchangeable points-wise!

It seems like you’ve missed In a Silent Way on the list of Miles Davis’s most acclaimed albums.

Loving the rollout so far though!

Didn't expect such a bump from Elton John, might have something to do with timing of the movie?

Nick wrote:It seems like you’ve missed In a Silent Way on the list of Miles Davis’s most acclaimed albums.

Loving the rollout so far though!

Thanks Nick, have corrected it!

Forum party over at Elton's tonight at 11 PM. Bring beer, caviar and a list free of choice. PS. Paul and Art might be high.

Elton's numbers are probably inflated from the movie as will be Queens.

Simple Minds are ranked 456 on AM. Did they finish outside of the top 500 here?

Big drop for VU. Wonder why that is, shift in forum away from alternative?

Decent climb for Elvis!

Also is Björk the highest ranking female artist on the list then or am I missing someone obvious that’s still to come?

No she’s always been our highest ranked female even in our all female artist poll a few months back.

Well now i’m really, really regretting not voting in this poll. It’s a disappointment to see The Velvet Underground tumble. I know i’m simply repeating what is already known about this group, but let’s be honest for a second! There’s a realistic argument that they are purely popular music’s most influential band, informing many subgenres (punk, grunge, shoegazing, goth, indie, etc.) and influencing countless artists and bands (The Modern Lovers, Big Star, Patti Smith, David Bowie, Sonic Youth, R.E.M., Joy Division, Television, Sex Pistols, Interpol, The Cars, Brian Eno, Roxy Music, The Jesus And Mary Chain, and The Strokes just to name a few...) inspiring them to become great musicians in their own right. During their tenure as a group, The Velvet Underground practically invented the future, as their music was a prophecy that no one knew about, forseeing rock music’s developments, being so radical and ahead of their time that they ended up being ignored in their era.

Lots of big favorites showing up! Among that 16-25 batch, every artist I have in my top 50 went down, and every artist that didn't either stayed the same or went up.

Still great to see The Cure remain in the top 25 and Björk in the top 20!

And yeah, seeing TVU fall so far is the shock of the poll so far, I think.

Well said, CB

FrankLotion wrote:Also is Björk the highest ranking female artist on the list then or am I missing someone obvious that’s still to come?

Has Joni Mitchell shown up yet?

Jirin wrote:

FrankLotion wrote:Also is Björk the highest ranking female artist on the list then or am I missing someone obvious that’s still to come?

Has Joni Mitchell shown up yet?

Down 16 to #63.

I think there’s an increasing trend on this board toward preference of “Apollonian” over “Dionysian”.

That’s terms usually applied to movies but applies well here too. Sculpted melodies over raw energy.

Brad wrote:Well said, CB

Thank you, and I might be the only person who thinks U2 is overrated as well, but that’s a one-man cause Well at least Sleater-Kinney jumped to the top hundred, so I can’t be complaining Also shoutout to TheLastEnemy for running this poll, i’m really enjoying the rollout so far.

Cold Butterfly wrote:

Brad wrote:Well said, CB

Thank you, and I might be the only person who thinks U2 is overrated

Far from it. They don't make my top 1000 artists.

Who's standing up there next to Björk? Aha, Neal Jung.

Latest findings:

Camera Obscura - French Navy (repeated theme, just like you want it)

Thought Barenaked Ladies were american punks but instead they were canadian Hall of famers with good sound that appeared in 'Friends' soundtrack. Lovers in A Dangerous Time, One Week and Odds Are. Nice.

Kool & The Gang - Summer Madness

Hooverphonic - One Way Ride

Black Eyed Peas - Pump It (use Pulp Fiction song to good effect).

PS. Neil Young after 'Decade' years? Here:

1. My My, Hey Hey (Out Of The Blue) / (Into the Black) (Rust Never Sleeps, 1979) 2. Rockin' In The Free World (Freedom, 1989) 3. Philadelphia (Philadelphia OST, 1993) 4. Powderfinger (Rust Never Sleeps, 1979) 5. Crime in the City (60 to 0 Part 1) (Freedom, 1989) 6. Peaceful Valley Boulevard (Le Noise, 2010) 7. Prairie Wind (Prairie Wind, 2005) 8. Leave The Driving / Sun Green (Greendale, 2003) 9. Pocahontas (Rust Never Sleeps, 1979) 10. Ordinary People (Chrome Dreams II, 2007) 11. Oper·a Star (Re-Ac-Tor, 1981) 12. Just Singing A Song (Fork In The Road, 2009) 13. From Hank to Hendrix (Harvest Moon, 1992) 14. Love And War (Le Noise, 2010) 15. Trans Am (Sleeps With Angels, 1996) 16. Bandit (Greendale, 2003) 17. Misfits (Old Ways, 1983) 18. When God Made Me (Prairie Wind, 2005) 19. Transformer Man (Unplugged, 1993) 20. Big Time (Broken Arrow. 1996) 21. The Painter (Prairie Wind, 2005) 22. Inca Queen (Life, 1987) 23. Music Arcade (Broken Arrow, 1996) 24. Over And Over (Ragged Glory, 1990) 25. Stringman (Unplugged, 1993) 26. Goin' Back (Comes A Time, 1978) 27. It's a Dream (Prairie Wind, 2005) 28. Goin’ Home (Are You Passionate?, 2002) 29. Change Your Mind (Sleeps With Angels, 1994) 30. The Ways Of Love (Freedom, 1989) 31. Unknown Legend (Harvest Moon, 1992) 32. Comes A Time (Comes A Time, 1978) 33. F*!#in' Up (Ragged Glory, 1990) 34. Ramada Inn (Psychedelic Pill, 2012) 35. Razor Love (Silver & Gold, 2000) 36. The Restless Consumer (Living With War, 2006) 37. Out Of Control (Looking Forward, 1993) 38. Captain Kennedy (Hawks & Doves, 1980) 39. You And Me (Harvest Moon, 1992) 40. Cocaine Eyes (Eldorado, 1989) 41. Driftin’ Back (Psychedelic Pill, 2012) 42. Harvest Moon Harvest Moon (1992) 43. Hitchhiker (Le Noise, 2010) 44. My Heart (Sleeps With Angels, 1994) 45. Lotta Love (Comes A Time, 1978) 46. Coup De Ville (This Note’s For You, 1988) 47. Such A Woman (Harvest Moon, 1992) 48. Living With War (Living With War, 2006) 49. Look Out For My Love (Comes A Time, 1978) 50. The Old Homestead (Hawks And Doves, 1980)

WOW! What Five-star stars, last 5!

PS. Polyphonic Spree had a good version (and an even better video) of Litium. Standing in a white dress, choir singing, slightly fueled by...coca-cola and maybe prescribed Metylphenidat).

Could they have made a good group?

Songwriting: Brian and Morrissey
Singing the songs: Michael and Morrissey
Strutting around in vegetabilic hat: Morrissey
Choir: The Beach Boys of U.S.A.
Acoustic seriousness: Curt
Drums: Dave Growl
Guitars: Bruce and Marr
Playing manager: Bruce
Percussion: Stevie Wonder or Herbie Hancock

R.E.M. then is the top American band.

2008 poll -- R.E.M.
2010 poll -- The Velvet Underground
2013 poll -- The Beach Boys
2016 poll -- R.E.M.

Is that not counting individual artists as bands?

I think it’s a strange distinction to omit someone like Prince as a band, who always plays with a band, just not the same one. I have a feeling Eels and Mountain Goats would be included as bands despite having one constant member just because their name is plural.

Is our only distinction between Artist and Band was hat it’s not a band when the band’s name is the frontman’s name?

I know they're not credited on the studio albums, but the E Street Band deserves a mention. (Which I've hereby done )

Jirin wrote:Is that not counting individual artists as bands?

I think it’s a strange distinction to omit someone like Prince as a band, who always plays with a band, just not the same one. I have a feeling Eels and Mountain Goats would be included as bands despite having one constant member just because their name is plural.

Is our only distinction between Artist and Band was hat it’s not a band when the band’s name is the frontman’s name?

I mean, Frank Sinatra is a band, if we're just counting people playing behind you. For a regular rock band, The Something-Somethings, I may not know many (or any) of the band members' names, and it may be a somewhat democratic affair or give feints to democracy. But if Prince or Bob Dylan has a band, there's just 1 name to keep track of, because it's really only about 1 person. Prince doesn't end if he fires the Revolution; he just gets someone else.

There also are music groups that are neither individual artists nor bands. Rap groups, vocal groups, partial bands (Steely Dan)

Cold Butterfly wrote:Well now i’m really, really regretting not voting in this poll. It’s a disappointment to see The Velvet Underground tumble. I know i’m simply repeating what is already known about this group, but let’s be honest for a second! There’s a realistic argument that they are purely popular music’s most influential band,

I wish they would fall entirely off the list!

The most popular and significant form of rock over the past 30+ years is hip hop, and the VU had zero influence on that genre. What they did was to make it okay for people (like Lou Reed) who could not sing to become singers, which IMO is one of the worst things that ever happened to music, and also one of the main reasons that I hardly like any music of the past 25 years or so.

Cold Butterfly wrote: In songs such as “Run Run Run”, “Heroin”, “I’m Waiting For The Man”, “White Light/White Heat”, what comes to mind is the boy or girl you might see on the street, homeless or not, sticking a syringe into their arm, or sleeping next to a bag of them.

What comes to mind for me when I hear any of their songs is....

GET THIS SHIT OFF!!!

My first favorite artist, Prince, he could write a tune or two even in Y2K:

One Nite Alone - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTuWyO2ps6Y

RIP, man!

Led Zeppelin has steadily been rising

Hymie wrote:

Cold Butterfly wrote:Well now i’m really, really regretting not voting in this poll. It’s a disappointment to see The Velvet Underground tumble. I know i’m simply repeating what is already known about this group, but let’s be honest for a second! There’s a realistic argument that they are purely popular music’s most influential band,

I wish they would fall entirely off the list!

The most popular and significant form of rock over the past 30+ years is hip hop, and the VU had zero influence on that genre. What they did was to make it okay for people (like Lou Reed) who could not sing to become singers, which IMO is one of the worst things that ever happened to music, and also one of the main reasons that I hardly like any music of the past 25 years or so.

I definitely agree with your point about hip hop being popular music’s most influential genre as of now, and I can understand your “singers” point as well, because I can understand why a voice like Reed’s, or Dylan’s, or Iggy Pop’s, for example might seem abrasive to some, even annoying, and I totally get that. But being a “singer” doesn’t mean you have to be extraordinary. I’ve noticed that you’re a huge fan of 50s rock and roll, so i’m just gonna say this. Did Chuck Berry or Bo Diddley have extraordinary voices? No. They also had limited techniques like Reed, but is their music not great because of it? Were they not beloved by a countless number of listeners? Bob Dylan is considered by many to be popular musician’s greatest singer-songwriter, but is he not great because he also didn’t have the techniques to be a “singer”? Just because you don’t have a voice like Beyoncé or Frank Ocean, for example, doesn’t mean an entire body of work gets to be shitted on. There are so many things to count when assessing a body of work. You can’t just go ahead and say “oh well, all these bands and artists are shit because they don’t have “great singing””. You don’t have to go all Brian Wilson on the song or album to make it good.

I also understand your reaction to the songs you pointed out on the second comment, as well. After all, I don’t think anybody would consider any of those songs to be “easy listening” However, one of the things many, including I, love about music is it’s ability to resonate with real-life experiences that listener payed witness to or is experiencing in real time. Many, including I, have found those songs appealing because of their tone, and their lyrical topics, because those things are real-life experiences people have paid witness to, and/or have had to went through. Every music listener hears something different in every song they listen to.

Chuck Berry and Bo Diddley are not great singers, but they are good singers. Lou Reed and most of these alternative and other modern singers are awful IMO. Also, as you may know from what I have said around here before, I have no interest at all in lyrics and what they are saying. The words only matter to me phonetically. They have to sound good within the framework of the record, but what they happen to mean is irrelevant to me.

Buddy Guy is an artist who does a style that I like, but he's such a bad singer that I don't like his records.

Here's Bo Diddley singing a very good ballad. He's a good singer.

Cold Butterfly wrote:[ However, one of the things many, including I, love about music is it’s ability to resonate with real-life experiences that listener payed witness to or is experiencing in real time.

I consider singers to be like actors. When they sing they are playing a role, usually about something that has no bearing to their real life. Especially those great singers (Elvis, Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald, Tony Bennett, Clyde McPhatter) that did not write songs at all. Marlon Brando was not a real life Mafioso, although he played one very convincingly, and it's the same thing for great singers IMO.

Cold Butterfly wrote:You can’t just go ahead and say “oh well, all these bands and artists are shit because they don’t have “great singing””.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that they don't even have anything close to competent singing. Most of these alternative acts cannot even carry a tune vocally. But because acts like the VU made it acceptable for the song's message and attitude to be far more important than the vocals to a certain segment of the audience, these people felt empowered to sing.

I've never heard a VU song ever on a commercial radio station. I managed a record store for 20 years and never had a customer ask for anything by VU. I DJ'd at clubs and parties for 20 years and never once had a request for a VU song. They're a glorified cult act that is only well known by critics and music nerds. The general listening public still has no idea who they are. Most average rock music fans could not name one song by the VU.

Alright, I think you have explained very well your different views on VU, Hymie and Cold Butterfly. I’d say there’s need to continue this discussion further. Thanks!

Hymie wrote:

Cold Butterfly wrote:You can’t just go ahead and say “oh well, all these bands and artists are shit because they don’t have “great singing””.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that they don't even have anything close to competent singing. Most of these alternative acts cannot even carry a tune vocally. But because acts like the VU made it acceptable for the song's message and attitude to be far more important than the vocals to a certain segment of the audience, these people felt empowered to sing.

I've never heard a VU song ever on a commercial radio station. I managed a record store for 20 years and never had a customer ask for anything by VU. I DJ'd at clubs and parties for 20 years and never once had a request for a VU song. They're a glorified cult act that is only well known by critics and music nerds. The general listening public still has no idea who they are. Most average rock music fans could not name one song by the VU.

I can understand your views on song lyrics, because that’s just personal taste. But dude, have you heard “Candy Says”, “Who Loves The Sun”, or “Oh Sweet Nuthin!”. You can’t tell me that Reed isn’t in the same class as vocalists as Berry or Diddley, if not better. Even if you look at his solo career, “Satellite Of Love” is a great vocal performance as well. You’re saying that most alternative acts include bad vocalists, which i’d disagree with. There are plenty of alternative singers who are great. I’m not trying to be disrespectful, but i’m getting the vibe that you don’t seem to listen to a lot of alternative. Seriously, did Kurt Cobain, Thom Yorke, Morissey, or Eddie Vedder’s music cease from the Earth or something?

The argument that musicians’ performamces can’t have any bearing to real life is utterly ridiculous, in my opinion. The artists that you mentioned when trying to make your point came from a time when no one thought of popular music as an art form, and simply thought of as an entertainment industry. That was before the singer-songwriter era, before the Beatles, Dylan, and the Stones. You’re using an argument that’s based on a whole different era of popular music. The point of art is to express yourself and the feelings within and without you, and you’re gonna sit here and tell me that someone’s feelings don’t “accurately” portray real life? Music is an art form, and exactly does that.

You say you’ve never heard The Velvet Underground on a commercial radio station. I doubt you’ve ever heard Sonic Youth, Bjork, or My Bloody Valentine on one as well. Like I said before, music is an art form. Art is not about commercial value, it’s about form and merit as a product. History has shown that all of those acts met the criteria, if we’re referring to merit as a product. Van Gogh sold only one painting during his lifetime, but does that mean he’s not a great artist? Citizen Kane underperformed commercially upon its release, but is it not the most acclaimed film of all time? Is Moby Dick not a classic book because the general public met it with indifference? Is Emily Dickinson not a great writer because she was virtually unknown during her lifetime? The merits of an artistic product aren’t determined by how many people liked it, it’s determined by the value artistically. It’s one of the reasons why The Rules Of The Game is considered a great film, and why Jurassic World is not. It’s why The Velvet Underground And Nico is considered to be a great album, and why Falling Into You is not.

Henrik wrote:Alright, I think you have explained very well your different views on VU, Hymie and Cold Butterfly. I’d say there’s need to continue this discussion further. Thanks!

I don’t know if you meant that the discussion didn’t need to continue, but either way I didn’t see this until I posted my response. That’s my bad, and apologies to you Henrik. I won’t continue this discussion if you don’t want, and I totally respect it because it’s your forum.

Cold Butterfly wrote:

Henrik wrote:Alright, I think you have explained very well your different views on VU, Hymie and Cold Butterfly. I’d say there’s need to continue this discussion further. Thanks!

I don’t know if you meant that the discussion didn’t need to continue, but either way I didn’t see this until I posted my response. That’s my bad, and apologies to you Henrik. I won’t continue this discussion if you don’t want, and I totally respect it because it’s your forum.

Thanks! We’ve had similar ”arguings” in the past, and they just don’t lead to anything positive, unfortunately.

Henrik wrote:

Cold Butterfly wrote:

Henrik wrote:Alright, I think you have explained very well your different views on VU, Hymie and Cold Butterfly. I’d say there’s need to continue this discussion further. Thanks!

I don’t know if you meant that the discussion didn’t need to continue, but either way I didn’t see this until I posted my response. That’s my bad, and apologies to you Henrik. I won’t continue this discussion if you don’t want, and I totally respect it because it’s your forum.

Thanks! We’ve had similar ”arguings” in the past, and they just don’t lead to anything positive, unfortunately.

I remember my weeks discussing my view the VU was decent but overrated.

I really enjoy a few of their songs and others are pretty good. As I indicated in that prior discussion (many years ago), I'm not a fan of unresolved dissonance. But, if others do enjoy unresolved dissonance that's up to them and better for them because it enables them to have such a more expansive musical palette. My dislike of Tom Waits and much of hip-hop is also not an advantage for me and for others who enjoy Waits and hip-hop, I applaud them for their ability to find pleasure where I cannot yet do so.

Prince - One Nite Alone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTuWyO2ps6Y
(My first favorite artist, R.I.P. man)

Velvet Underground - Sunday Morning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qK82Jv ... rt_radio=1

Bob Marley - Satisfy My Soul https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkaqvekPMOw

Cold Butterfly wrote:
I can understand your views on song lyrics, because that’s just personal taste. But dude, have you heard “Candy Says”, “Who Loves The Sun”, or “Oh Sweet Nuthin!”. You can’t tell me that Reed isn’t in the same class as vocalists as Berry or Diddley, if not better.

I can, and I have.

Cold Butterfly wrote: Seriously, did Kurt Cobain, Thom Yorke, Morissey, or Eddie Vedder’s music cease from the Earth or something?

Wishful thinking!

Cold Butterfly wrote: Like I said before, music is an art form.

No it's not. That's a myth put forth (I'm sorry to say) by the critics that this site is based upon. Music is a craft.

Hymie wrote:

Cold Butterfly wrote: Like I said before, music is an art form.

No it's not. That's a myth put forth (I'm sorry to say) by the critics that this site is based upon. Music is a craft.

Music has been considered a form of art for hundreds of years. Are you're going to seriously suggest that nobody ever considered the works of Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, et al to be works of art until the rise of the modern music critic?

Even the first sentence in the Wikipedia article for "art" has this to say:

"Art is a diverse range of human activities in creating visual, auditory or performing artifacts (artworks), expressing the author's imaginative, conceptual ideas, or technical skill, intended to be appreciated for their beauty or emotional power."

While the Oxford English dictionary defines "art" as:

"Works produced by human creative skill and imagination."

It certainly seems like music fits those descriptions!