AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

User avatar
Elder
Let's Get It On
Posts: 161
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:59 pm

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Elder » Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:26 pm

:banana-guitar: :banana-guitar: :banana-guitar: :banana-guitar: :banana-guitar:

VU
Losing My Edge

User avatar
Live in Phoenix
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1095
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:50 am

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Live in Phoenix » Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:44 pm

I'm sure if we keep going on about this it will all get figured out...

=========================================================

Should there just be a thread devoted solely to music debating -- what should music be or not be, can Lou Reed sing, did Lou Reed ruin music, did someone else ruin music, and so on?

Jirin
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 2479
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:12 am

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Jirin » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:12 pm

So you’re going all in on the “They are not commercially popular therefore objectively bad” angle? That could take you places you don’t want to be on popular music. ;)

Jirin
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 2479
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:12 am

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Jirin » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:23 pm

I’m just wondering what the point is of lists that split up “Artists” and “Bands” when the distinction between the two is often arbitrary. Is Prince an artist when he’s Prince but a band when he’s Prince and the Revolution? Does Neil Young transform into a band when he adds “And Crazy Horse”? Springsteen and the E Street Band?

TheLastEnemy
Let's Get It On
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:31 pm

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by TheLastEnemy » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:58 pm

Not wanting to change the subject, but:

Image

Jirin
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 2479
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:12 am

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Jirin » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:10 pm

Just because a band’s audience is a little smaller and less willing and able to spend money on music does not make a band’s impact on that audience less valid or profound.

Most people who use the popularity argument apply it selectively to dismiss something nichey they personally do not like when they have no real arguments against it besides “This is not to my taste and is therefore objectively trash.” Which is Hymiebruce’s real position in every case I’ve ever seen him argue.

User avatar
Henrik
Site Admin
Posts: 5158
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:09 am
Location: Älvsjö, Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Henrik » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:43 pm

Let’s focus on the results now. Best AMF rank ever for Pink Floyd!
Everyone you meet fights a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. Always.

User avatar
Henrik
Site Admin
Posts: 5158
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:09 am
Location: Älvsjö, Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Henrik » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:55 pm

Other artists in the top 100 with a new best AMF rank:

Led Zeppelin
Michael Jackson
The Smiths
Nirvana
Elvis Presley
Queen
Bob Marley & The Wailers
Elton John
Sufjan Stevens
Aretha Franklin
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds
Kate Bush
Black Sabbath
Green Day
Nina Simone
Pearl Jam
Depeche Mode
Guns N’ Roses
ABBA
The Police
Ray Charles
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Sleater-Kinney
Eminem
Parliament/Funkadelic
Blondie
Everyone you meet fights a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. Always.

Hymie
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Hymie » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:19 pm

Nick wrote:
Even the first sentence in the Wikipedia article for "art" has this to say:
Are you REALLY going to use Wikipedia as your proof source?

Hymie
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Hymie » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:26 pm

Jirin wrote:Just because a band’s audience is a little smaller and less willing and able to spend money on music does not make a band’s impact on that audience less valid or profound.
Oh I agree. Many acts have had profound impact on a relatively small audience.

Acts like the Five Keys, Flamingos, Moonglows, Orioles and Ravens had HUGE impact on tens of thousands of doo wop fans along the Eastern seabord and in California.

Charlie Feathers had a huge impact on tens of thousands of hard core rockabilly fans, yet all he could manage here on the site is 2 songs bubbling under.

User avatar
Henrik
Site Admin
Posts: 5158
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:09 am
Location: Älvsjö, Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Henrik » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:35 pm

Hymie wrote:
Nick wrote:
Even the first sentence in the Wikipedia article for "art" has this to say:
Are you REALLY going to use Wikipedia as your proof source?
NO ANSWERS, PLEASE!
Everyone you meet fights a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. Always.

Harold
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1940
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Harold » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:47 pm

Hymie wrote:
Cold Butterfly wrote: I can understand your views on song lyrics, because that’s just personal taste. But dude, have you heard “Candy Says”, “Who Loves The Sun”, or “Oh Sweet Nuthin!”. You can’t tell me that Reed isn’t in the same class as vocalists as Berry or Diddley, if not better.
Sorry to jump in here like this, but since no one else has pointed this out: Cold Butterfly, definitely on your side here, but if you're using those three specific songs as evidence for Lou Reed's greatness as a vocalist, you kind of run headlong into the brick wall of fact that Reed didn't sing any of those songs. Doug Yule did.

Cold Butterfly
Let's Get It On
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:28 am
Location: Ashburn, Virginia

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Cold Butterfly » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:50 pm

Harold wrote:
Hymie wrote:
Cold Butterfly wrote: I can understand your views on song lyrics, because that’s just personal taste. But dude, have you heard “Candy Says”, “Who Loves The Sun”, or “Oh Sweet Nuthin!”. You can’t tell me that Reed isn’t in the same class as vocalists as Berry or Diddley, if not better.
Sorry to jump in here like this, but since no one else has pointed this out: Cold Butterfly, definitely on your side here, but if you're using those three specific songs as evidence for Lou Reed's greatness as a vocalist, you kind of run headlong into the brick wall of fact that Reed didn't sing any of those songs. Doug Yule did.
No worries Harold, and I was made aware of my error in the thread LiveInPhoenix created. It still doesn’t change my opinion about the role of vocal techniques in songs, and on Reed’s vocals in general.

Fred
Let's Get It On
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:30 am

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Fred » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:18 pm

Biggest omissions so far (IMHO):

1. Frank Zappa (at no. 155)

Together with Dylan, Young, Bowie, Lennon and maybe McCartney one of few who could put up a hundred good songs. Some would add Prince. Who reminded of Zappa (+band) at the end.Of course number of songs with melody is not the only criteria...

Almost agree with Pink Floyd at no. 8 as they were quite a phenomenon when I grew up. But quantitative they were a step lower than artists above.

User avatar
Listyguy
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 2135
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:34 pm

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Listyguy » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:08 pm

Jirin wrote: Most people who use the popularity argument apply it selectively to dismiss something nichey they personally do not like when they have no real arguments against it besides “This is not to my taste and is therefore objectively trash.” Which is Hymiebruce’s real position in every case I’ve ever seen him argue.
Well said. Sometimes it's better to just not feed the fire.

Hymie
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Hymie » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:36 pm

Harold wrote:
Hymie wrote:
Cold Butterfly wrote: I can understand your views on song lyrics, because that’s just personal taste. But dude, have you heard “Candy Says”, “Who Loves The Sun”, or “Oh Sweet Nuthin!”. You can’t tell me that Reed isn’t in the same class as vocalists as Berry or Diddley, if not better.
Sorry to jump in here like this, but since no one else has pointed this out: Cold Butterfly, definitely on your side here, but if you're using those three specific songs as evidence for Lou Reed's greatness as a vocalist, you kind of run headlong into the brick wall of fact that Reed didn't sing any of those songs. Doug Yule did.
ROFLMAO!!!!!

User avatar
Henrik
Site Admin
Posts: 5158
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:09 am
Location: Älvsjö, Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Henrik » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:56 pm

Hymie wrote:
Harold wrote:
Hymie wrote:
Sorry to jump in here like this, but since no one else has pointed this out: Cold Butterfly, definitely on your side here, but if you're using those three specific songs as evidence for Lou Reed's greatness as a vocalist, you kind of run headlong into the brick wall of fact that Reed didn't sing any of those songs. Doug Yule did.
ROFLMAO!!!!!
If someone feels it's really necessary to follow up on this...or any other argument in this topic...please use the new debate topic. And keep things civil!!
Everyone you meet fights a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. Always.

User avatar
Moonbeam
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1812
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:40 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Moonbeam » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:12 pm

The upper ranks here definitely aren't featuring Moonbeam-friendly position changes, but it's still fascinating and exciting to watch. Thanks, TheLastEnemy!

Neil
Let's Get It On
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:50 pm
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Neil » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:30 pm

We never really seem to learn from the past.

TheLastEnemy
Let's Get It On
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:31 pm

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by TheLastEnemy » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:32 pm

Image

Wezzo
Strange Fruit
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:38 pm
Contact:

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Wezzo » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:13 am

Great result for R.E.M.!

Sad to see Bruce drop a little but still a decent showing.

User avatar
Honorio
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 2509
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:38 am
Location: L'Eliana, Valencia, Spain

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Honorio » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:25 pm

I endorse a Spotify playlist with the songs by The Velvet Underground that does not feature Lou Reed as lead vocalist as my little homage to Cold Butterfly who got unfairly laughed at. He simply made an (understandable) mistake with Doug Yule and Lou Reed voices. My mistake was worse, during many years I thought that "Sunday Morning" was sung by Nico and it was Lou Reed with a falsetto, so I even mixed genres.
The name of the playlist is "VU w/o Lou" and includes every the (to my knowledge) officially released studio tracks without Reed on lead vocals. The songs are:
1. Femme Fatale (1966), Nico
2. All Tomorrow's Parties (1966), Nico
3. I'll Be Your Mirror (1966), Nico
4. The Gift (1968), John Cale
5. Lady Godiva's Operation (1968), John Cale (w/ Lou Reed)
6. Candy Says (1969), Doug Yule
7. The Murder Mystery (1969), Sterling Morrison, Doug Yule and Maureen Tucker (w/ Lou Reed)
8. After Hours (1969), Maureen Tucker
9. Who Loves the Sun (1970), Doug Yule
10. New Age (1970), Doug Yule
11. Lonesome Cowboy Bill (1970), Doug Yule
12. Oh! Sweet Nuthin' (1970), Doug Yule
13. She's My Best Friend (1985), Doug Yule (or so it says in the Internet, not sure about this one).
14. I'm Stickin with You (1985), Maureen Tucker (w/ Lou Reed)
15. Ride Into the Sun (1986), Doug Yule


User avatar
Rob
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 2469
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:53 pm
Location: Nijmegen, The Netherlands

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Rob » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:26 pm

After 10 days of absense, it is good to see the list developing, but why is the finale being done this slow all of a sudden?

One funny mistake: TheLastEnemy apparently thought that the suggestiveness of the song title Let's Get It On was too safe and changed it in the more direct Let's Get It In.

Harold
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1940
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Harold » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:35 pm

Honorio wrote: 13. She's My Best Friend (1985), Doug Yule (or so it says in the Internet, not sure about this one).
Yes, that's definitely Yule singing lead on the VU version of this song (revived by Reed, in a drastically different version, on Coney Island Baby).

User avatar
Henrik
Site Admin
Posts: 5158
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:09 am
Location: Älvsjö, Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Henrik » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:42 pm

Rob wrote:One funny mistake: TheLastEnemy apparently thought that the suggestiveness of the song title Let's Get It On was too safe and changed it in the more direct Let's Get It In.
:D
Everyone you meet fights a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. Always.

TheLastEnemy
Let's Get It On
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:31 pm

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by TheLastEnemy » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:56 pm

Rob wrote:After 10 days of absense, it is good to see the list developing, but why is the finale being done this slow all of a sudden?
Apologies, I am new to this and thought that was the speed previous rollouts happened at.

Image

User avatar
Edre Peraza
Let's Get It On
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Edre Peraza » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:59 pm

Im shocked that Stevie is always so high up there
Depeche Malone Head Day

User avatar
Live in Phoenix
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1095
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:50 am

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Live in Phoenix » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:03 pm

I thought the rollout always kinda slowed down to a tease.

TheLastEnemy
Let's Get It On
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:31 pm

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by TheLastEnemy » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:11 pm

Rob wrote:One funny mistake: TheLastEnemy apparently thought that the suggestiveness of the song title Let's Get It On was too safe and changed it in the more direct Let's Get It In.
No point beating around the bush, I thought

User avatar
Henrik
Site Admin
Posts: 5158
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:09 am
Location: Älvsjö, Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Henrik » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:59 pm

TheLastEnemy wrote:
Rob wrote:One funny mistake: TheLastEnemy apparently thought that the suggestiveness of the song title Let's Get It On was too safe and changed it in the more direct Let's Get It In.
No point beating around the bush, I thought
:D
Everyone you meet fights a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. Always.

Henry
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1336
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:39 pm

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Henry » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:00 pm

Interesting to see that Prince and Led Zeppelin have the most votes so far (46), followed closely by Nirvana and Stevie Wonder (45).

I wonder how many poll participants voted the top vote getter.
Last edited by Henry on Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Henry
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1336
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:39 pm

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Henry » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:02 pm

Henry wrote:
Edre Peraza wrote:Im shocked that Stevie is always so high up there
I prefer Stevie to Nirvana, Prince, Radiohead, Bowie or Dylan, so I'm thrilled to see Stevie right where he is.
Last edited by Henry on Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Live in Phoenix
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1095
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:50 am

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Live in Phoenix » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:18 pm

Rob wrote: One funny mistake: TheLastEnemy apparently thought that the suggestiveness of the song title Let's Get It On was too safe and changed it in the more direct Let's Get It In.
Whoa, this is the first time a poll runner has improved one of the artists' songs!

TheLastEnemy
Let's Get It On
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:31 pm

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by TheLastEnemy » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:25 pm

Image

User avatar
Moonbeam
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1812
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:40 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Moonbeam » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:55 pm

Very happy to see Stevie rise!

User avatar
Moonbeam
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1812
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:40 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Moonbeam » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:10 pm

Posted a question in the locked debate thread so I'll post here instead.

I'm not sure that I'll ever understand why R.E.M. is so widely acclaimed. This isn't a matter of taste and it's by no means a criticism - I surely like a lot of stuff that others can freely question. :mrgreen: While I'm not a fan of R.E.M., I still far prefer them to The Beatles and Bob Dylan and Led Zeppelin, but I can at least understand why those artists made such waves. I'm sure I'm ignorant, but as I've mentioned before, if I woke up suddenly in a world where R.E.M. was the 200th most acclaimed band, it wouldn't surprise me. Even at RYM which seems to have a community that would completely gush over them doesn't feature any R.E.M. albums in the top 200.

Are they considered pioneers or jangle pop or alternative? If so, I don't see why artists like The Feelies and Violent Femmes aren't given the same adulation. Maybe I'll never fully understand it, but I'm curious.

Fred
Let's Get It On
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:30 am

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Fred » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:47 pm

Rob wrote:After 10 days of absense, it is good to see the list developing, but why is the finale being done this slow all of a sudden?

One funny mistake: TheLastEnemy apparently thought that the suggestiveness of the song title Let's Get It On was too safe and changed it in the more direct Let's Get It In.
Get It On - Get It In - Bring It Up!

User avatar
Edre Peraza
Let's Get It On
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Edre Peraza » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:51 pm

Moonbeam wrote:Posted a question in the locked debate thread so I'll post here instead.

I'm not sure that I'll ever understand why R.E.M. is so widely acclaimed. This isn't a matter of taste and it's by no means a criticism - I surely like a lot of stuff that others can freely question. :mrgreen: While I'm not a fan of R.E.M., I still far prefer them to The Beatles and Bob Dylan and Led Zeppelin, but I can at least understand why those artists made such waves. I'm sure I'm ignorant, but as I've mentioned before, if I woke up suddenly in a world where R.E.M. was the 200th most acclaimed band, it wouldn't surprise me. Even at RYM which seems to have a community that would completely gush over them doesn't feature any R.E.M. albums in the top 200.

Are they considered pioneers or jangle pop or alternative? If so, I don't see why artists like The Feelies and Violent Femmes aren't given the same adulation. Maybe I'll never fully understand it, but I'm curious.
Im not going to lie, I have a soft spot for alternative music from the mid 80s all throughout out the 21st century. But honestly the praise around REM. has always seemed odd to me. They are not bad but are they deserving to be this high. I get it that they influenced most alternative bands to come after them but still, as a band they are nothing special, even if they are influential. And while I have bias for Depeche Mode because they are my personal favorite, I would argue that Depeche Mode and The Cure are way more influential 80s bands than they get credit for and are way much more solid than REM.

Also when looking at the alternative genres and waves I enjoy, I personally would take late 80s - mid 90s skate punk, 80s & 90s synth, wave of alt bands in the 2000s, and the modern "soundloud/emo" style hip hop in the 2010s over the sound of REM.
Depeche Malone Head Day

TheLastEnemy
Let's Get It On
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:31 pm

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by TheLastEnemy » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:28 pm

Image

User avatar
andyd1010
Rust Never Sleeps
Posts: 851
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:08 am

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by andyd1010 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:42 pm

Moonbeam wrote:Posted a question in the locked debate thread so I'll post here instead.

I'm not sure that I'll ever understand why R.E.M. is so widely acclaimed. This isn't a matter of taste and it's by no means a criticism - I surely like a lot of stuff that others can freely question. :mrgreen: While I'm not a fan of R.E.M., I still far prefer them to The Beatles and Bob Dylan and Led Zeppelin, but I can at least understand why those artists made such waves. I'm sure I'm ignorant, but as I've mentioned before, if I woke up suddenly in a world where R.E.M. was the 200th most acclaimed band, it wouldn't surprise me. Even at RYM which seems to have a community that would completely gush over them doesn't feature any R.E.M. albums in the top 200.

Are they considered pioneers or jangle pop or alternative? If so, I don't see why artists like The Feelies and Violent Femmes aren't given the same adulation. Maybe I'll never fully understand it, but I'm curious.
Dug up when you brought this up last poll and this was the only defense of R.E.M. at the time:
VanillaFire1000 wrote:Great lists guys and gals! I'm a bit late to the REM chat before, but as the person who voted them number 1 I just want to explain my vote. REM were the peak of the 80s and 90s alternative movement and were key in the change in rock and pop music during that era. They were able to grow as artists for over 30 years while consistently putting out quality material : they put out fifteen albums and 14 are well respected. They paved the way for musicians to get big and not sell out. And this was a gut Poll and I went with my gut: if I was going to start making music, I would want to make music like them. I would write more but I'm phone posting in a car.
I still don't understand how that merits them being above artists like Bruce Springsteen. Anyone care to explain further? I voted for R.E.M., but I like a lot of alternative bands and I don't see what makes them tower over the other ones in so many people's eyes.

User avatar
Live in Phoenix
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1095
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:50 am

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Live in Phoenix » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:17 am

In theory, though not musically, you could sort of compare R.E.M. to Talking Heads: they don’t sound straightforward, like, say, a Journey song; there’s something odd about them – for R.E.M., their lyrics and album artwork were typically very odd, and like Talking Heads they gave off a non-rock star vibe when the rock star was king (they arguably helped further a shift in sound and attitude away from masculine stereotypes in music); they developed their own sound apart from current radio trends, didn’t make significant concessions, and became famous on their own schedule (I think Spin once said that R.E.M.’s major accomplishment was getting alternative rock to believe in itself); also, crucial to the two bands’ widespread appeal, you didn’t have to like really weird stuff to like them – no musical bystander is going to tear their hair out having to listen to their music. In R.E.M.’s case, “Radio Free Europe” was accessible enough for a bunch of no-names to be a hit with American Bandstand. (You could say that R.E.M. gets more acclaim than Talking Heads because they arguably had more hot albums, or had a longer hot period. As far as how you literally argue quality with someone, best of luck to you...)

R.E.M.’s first LP was a major hit with critics, anachronistically winning Album of the Year over 1982's Thriller with Rolling Stone, and ranking 2nd place behind Thriller with Village Voice. If you feel like famous musicians eventually are bestowed a kind of auto-goodwill with every release, here is a review of them and their appeal when they were a bunch of no-names:
Rolling Stone -- May 26, 1983

R.E.M.’s Chronic Town EP was one of last year’s more invigorating, tuneful surprises: a record from an Athens, Georgia, band that cared not a whit for the fashionable quirks of that town’s dance-rock outfits like the B-52’s or Pylon. R.E.M. fashioned its own smart, propulsive sound out of bright pop melodies, a murky, neopsychedelic atmosphere and a host of late-Sixties pop-rock touches. The execution wasn’t always up to the ideas — instrumentally, the band was still stumbling at times — but Chronic Town served notice that R.E.M. was an outfit to watch. Murmur is the record on which they trade that potential for results: an intelligent, enigmatic, deeply involving album, it reveals a depth and cohesiveness to R.E.M. that the EP could only suggest.

Murmur is a darker record than Chronic Town, but this band’s darkness is shot through with flashes of bright light. Vocalist Michael Stipe’s nasal snarl, Mike Mills’ rumbling bass and Bill Berry’s often sharp, slashing drums cast a cloudy, postpunk aura that is lightened by Peter Buck’s folk-flavored guitar playing. Many of the songs have vague, ominous settings, a trait that’s becoming an R.E.M. trademark. But not only is there a sense of detachment on the record — these guys, as one song title says, “Talk about the Passion” more often than they experience it — but the tunes relentlessly resist easy scanning. There’s no lyric sheet, Stipe slurs his lines, and they even pick a typeface that’s hard to read. But beyond that elusiveness is a restless, nervous record full of false starts and images of movement, pilgrimage, transit.

In the end, though, what they’re saying is less fascinating than how they say it, and Murmur‘s indelible appeal results from its less elusive charms: the alternately anthemic and elegiac choruses of such stubbornly rousing tunes as “Laughing” and “Sitting Still”; instrumental touches as apt as the stately, elegant piano in the ballad “Perfect Circle” and the shimmering folkish guitar in “Shaking Through”; above all, an original sound placed in the service of songs that matter. R.E.M. is clearly the important Athens band.

BobPatience
Different Class
Posts: 290
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:24 am
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by BobPatience » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:31 am

I did not participate in the poll, but the thing I like about R.E.M. is how they evolved their music over 15+ years while staying relevant, but not necessarily doing what their contemporaries were doing, and having an arguably more 'accesible' sound. They were never a big part of the new wave in the 80s, and when the 90s' grunge came around they dropped their Out of Time and Automatic for the People albums in a 2 year span, containing anything from Everybody Hurts to Shiny Happy People. R.E.M. to me is both unique in their variety of styles but also the uniqueness of their sound. From The jangly So. Central Rain (I'm Sorry), the folky Losing My Religion, the country Man on the Moon, the glam What's The Frequency Kenneth? to their political Orange Crush. Yet it still all obviously is R.E.M. Whereas with many other artists (like the aformentioned Depeche Mode, Cure and Springsteen) their names are, at least to me, tied to just one or two types of music, especially regarding their most acclaimed works. Other artists that I like for their 'evolving' music are for example: Arcade Fire, Kinks or Dire Straits.
Festina Lente

User avatar
Moonbeam
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1812
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:40 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Moonbeam » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:55 am

Thanks for the responses, everyone!

Cold Butterfly
Let's Get It On
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:28 am
Location: Ashburn, Virginia

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Cold Butterfly » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:19 am

Gotta say, i’m extremely pleased to see Stevie Wonder’s high placement. I’m also really excited that Radiohead will be in the top three, considering that they are my favorite band of all time.

On R.E.M. - It’s really their first five albums which defines their legacy to me. I never dug a lot of the stuff they did after Document, with the exception of songs such as “Losing My Religion”, and “What’s The Frequency, Kenneth?”, which are classics imo. That alone cements their place in music history for me.

Even so, i would agree with Moonbeam when I say they’re a bit overrated. It ticks me off too, that groups like Big Star, The Soft Boys, and The dB’s, don’t get the same credit, if not more, for pioneering R.E.M.’s sound. And ultimately, if we are talking about the sphere of alternative rock, i’d say in a heartbeat that they don’t hold a candle to groups such as Nirvana, Radiohead, the Pixies, Sonic Youth, My Bloody Valentine, or Husker Du, in my eyes. And if we’re talking about “proto-alternative” or what not, they don’t hold a candle to The Velvet Underground, The Stooges, or The Monks for that matter either, in my opinion.

R.E.M. got their acclaim in the Springsteen and Talking Heads mold, in which they’re all acts who started out as critics’ darlings, and eventually found mass commercial success as well to balance out that critical acclaim. And let me tell you, music history has shown that a marriage between the record-buying public and critical community can cement a specific artists’ canonization. That’s not to completely discount them however. Although R.E.M. didn’t pioneer their sound, they helped spread it to a mass audience, and once they hit the big time, they kept striding to make leaps with their sound, not worrying if it was radio-friendly at all (I will admit that in spite that I might be the only person on this forum who can’t get into Automatic For The People). They also influenced a vast number of musicians, and helped forward alternative rock in a lot of ways. So there’s no doubt that they played an important role in popular music’s history.

However, ultimately, there’s no way in hell I can view R.E.M. as one of the top seven acts in musical history. Most of the acts I already mentioned far surprass R.E.M. in importance and influence, in my opinion. R.E.M. is one of alternative’s greatest bands, but good enough to be this high on this poll? I’m sorry, but I can’t agree with that at all.

User avatar
StevieFan13
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 4392
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:00 pm
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by StevieFan13 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:04 am

Yay Stevie!
Music is a world within itself, with a language we all understand - Sir Duke (1976)

BobPatience
Different Class
Posts: 290
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:24 am
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by BobPatience » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:15 am

Cold Butterfly wrote: R.E.M. got their acclaim in the Springsteen and Talking Heads mold, in which they’re all acts who started out as critics’ darlings, and eventually found mass commercial success as well to balance out that critical acclaim. And let me tell you, music history has shown that a marriage between the record-buying public and critical community can cement a specific artists’ canonization. That’s not to completely discount them however. Although R.E.M. didn’t pioneer their sound, they helped spread it to a mass audience, and once they hit the big time, they kept striding to make leaps with their sound, not worrying if it was radio-friendly at all (I will admit that in spite that I might be the only person on this forum who can’t get into Automatic For The People). They also influenced a vast number of musicians, and helped forward alternative rock in a lot of ways. So there’s no doubt that they played an important role in popular music’s history.

However, ultimately, there’s no way in hell I can view R.E.M. as one of the top seven acts in musical history. Most of the acts I already mentioned far surprass R.E.M. in importance and influence, in my opinion. R.E.M. is one of alternative’s greatest bands, but good enough to be this high on this poll? I’m sorry, but I can’t agree with that at all.

Sorry, but I'm honestly curious. I thought that this was a poll about the music of artists, not their importance or influence on later artists. I don't think that R.E.M. is a top 10 influential band, but that doesn't meant that their music isn't top 10 worthy.
Festina Lente

Hymie
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Hymie » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:17 am

Cold Butterfly wrote: However, ultimately, there’s no way in hell I can view R.E.M. as one of the top seven acts in musical history.
We agree on something. They are not even among the top 70 acts in music history IMO. Not even close. I would say that they are not even among the top 70 acts in rock music history. In a Rank The Hall of Famers project we did they are currently ranked 60th. The list includes all of the Cleveland Hall of Famers, plus other acts that we voted in. VU is at #128.

MOST DESERVING HALL OF FAMERS

1 - Beatles
2 - Elvis Presley
3 - Chuck Berry
4 - Little Richard
5 - James Brown and the Famous Flames
6 - Bob Dylan
7 - Ray Charles
8 - Rolling Stones
9 - Beach Boys
10 - Aretha Franklin
11 - Stevie Wonder
12 - Bo Diddley
13 - Fats Domino
14 - The Who
15 - Buddy Holly and the Crickets
16 - Michael Jackson
17 - Sam Cooke
18 - Marvin Gaye
19 - Temptations
20 - Led Zeppelin
21 - Smokey Robinson and the Miracles
22 - Everly Brothers
23 - Jimi Hendrix Experience
24 - Louis Jordan
25 - Otis Redding
26 - Bruce Springsteen
27 - Jerry Lee Lewis
28 - Prince
29 - Madonna
30 - Run-D.M.C.
31 - Pink Floyd
32 - Supremes
33 - Drifters
34 - U2
35 - Muddy Waters
36 - Elton John
37 - Jackie Wilson
38 - Bill Haley and His Comets
39 - David Bowie
40 - Bob Marley
41 - Queen
42 - Roy Orbison
43 - Sly and the Family Stone
44 - Kinks
45 - Doors
46 - Byrds
47 - Neil Young
48 - Isley Brothers
49 - Howlin' Wolf
50 - Creedence Clearwater Revival
51 - Impressions
52 - Clyde McPhatter
53 - Simon & Garfunkel
54 - The Clash
55 - Wynonie Harris
56 - Black Sabbath
57 - Grateful Dead
58 - Nirvana
59 - Carl Perkins
60 - R.E.M.
61 - Bee Gees
62 - Platters
63 - Four Tops
64 - Roy Brown
65 - Hank Williams
66 - B.B. King
67 - Eagles
68 - Shirelles
69 - Grand Master Flash and the Furious Five
70 - Parliament / Funkadelic
71 - Four Seasons
72 - Cream
73 - Van Halen
74 - Wilson Pickett
75 - Big Joe Turner
76 - Ramones
77 - Ruth Brown
78 - Fleetwood Mac
79 - Clovers
80 - Yardbirds
81 - Willie Dixon
82 - Paul McCartney
83 - Dion
84 - Public Enemy
85 - Billy Ward and the Dominoes
86 - Ike & Tina Turner
87 - Johnny Otis
88 - Leadbelly
89 - Metallica
90 - Pearl Jam
91 - Crosby, Stills & Nash
92 - John Lennon
93 - Aerosmith
94 - Billy Joel
95 - Eddie Cochran
96 - Rod Stewart
97 - Hank Ballard and the Midnighters
98 - Dells
99 - Coasters
100 - Louis Armstrong
101 - Eric Clapton
102 - Johnny Cash
103 - Lloyd Price
104 - Ravens
105 - Donna Summer
106 - AC/DC
107 - Les Paul
108 - Woody Guthrie
109 - Earth, Wind & Fire
110 - Robert Johnson
111 - Sonny Til & the Orioles
112 - Elvis Costello & the Attractions
113 - Van Morrison
114 - Janet Jackson
115 - T-Bone Walker
116 - Deep Purple
117 - 2Pac
118 - Gene Vincent and His Blue Caps
119 - Beastie Boys
120 - Al Green
121 - N.W.A.
122 - Paul Simon
123 - Gladys Knight & the Pips
124 - Allman Brothers Band
125 - Joni Mitchell
126 - The Police
127 - Martha & the Vandellas
128 - Velvet Underground
129 - Janis Joplin
130 - Ricky Nelson
131 - Etta James
132 - "5" Royales
133 - Jackson 5
134 - Sam & Dave
135 - Guns N' Roses
136 - Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers
137 - Eric B. & Rakim
138 - Green Day
139 - Red Hot Chili Peppers
140 - Curtis Mayfield
141 - Abba
142 - Chubby Checker
143 - Sister Rosetta Tharpe
144 - Ink Spots
145 - Talking Heads
146 - Santana
147 - John Lee Hooker
148 - Radiohead
149 - Frank Zappa
150 - The Band
151 - Genesis
152 - Isaac Hayes
153 - Johnny Ace
154 - LL Cool J
155 - Sex Pistols
156 - Jefferson Airplane
157 - Chicago
158 - Frankie Lymon & Teenagers
159 - Jimmy Reed
160 - Hall & Oates
161 - Carole King
162 - Bobby "Blue" Bland
163 - O'Jays
164 - Solomon Burke
165 - LaVern Baker
166 - Professor Longhair
167 - Jerry Butler
168 - Mills Brothers
169 - Alice Cooper
170 - Lynyrd Skynyrd
171 - Yes
172 - War
173 - Animals
174 - James Taylor
175 - Charles Brown
176 - Ventures
177 - Booker T. & MG's
178 - Blondie
179 - Chuck Willis
180 - Monkees
181 - Bob Seger
182 - Kool and the Gang
183 - Spinners
184 - Kiss
185 - Steely Dan
186 - Stooges
187 - Rush
188 - Hollies
189 - Soul Stirrers
190 - Neil Diamond
191 - Billie Holiday
192 - Afrika Bambaataa
193 - Mamas & Papas
194 - ZZ Top
195 - Joe Tex
196 - Chic
197 - Dr. Dre
198 - Amos Milburn
199 - Elmore James
200 - George Harrison
201 - Bon Jovi
202 - Ivory Joe Hunter
203 - Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup
204 - Jesse Belvin
205 - Kraftwerk
206 - Little Willie John
207 - Big Jay McNeely
208 - Tommy James & the Shondells
209 - Jimmie Rodgers
210 - Nine Inch Nails
211 - Tina Turner
212 - Bob Wills & the Texas Playboys
213 - Duane Eddy
214 - Moody Blues
215 - De La Soul
216 - Mahalia Jackson
217 - Salt-N-Pepa
218 - Barry White
219 - Little Walter
220 - Jackson Browne
221 - Brenda Lee
222 - Rascals
223 - Lovin’ Spoonful
224 - Iron Maiden
225 - Jethro Tull
226 - Bobby Darin
227 - Harold Melvin & the Blue Notes
228 - Steve Miller Band
229 - Big Maybelle
230 - Pointer Sisters
231 - Roxy Music
232 - Heart
233 - Smashing Pumpkins
234 - Smiths
235 - Cars
236 - John Cougar Mellencamp
237 - Chantels
238 - Electric Light Orchestra
239 - Flamingos
240 - Link Wray
241 - Patti Smith
242 - Jr. Walker & the All-Stars
243 - Roy Milton
244 - Def Leppard
245 - Paul Revere & the Raiders
246 - Jan & Dean
247 - Cher
248 - Mariah Carey
249 - Kurtis Blow
250 - Cliff Richard
251 - Righteous Brothers
252 - Sonic Youth
253 - Buddy & Ella Johnson
254 - Mary Wells
255 - Stylistics
256 - Bessie Smith
257 - Three Dog Night
258 - Mary J. Blige
259 - Dinah Washington
260 - Huey "Piano" Smith
261 - The Cure
262 - Linda Ronstadt
263 - Lee Dorsey
264 - Moonglows
265 - Gram Parsons
266 - Charley Patton
267 - Doobie Bothers
268 - Del Shannon
269 - George Michael
270 - Phil Collins
271 - Boogie Down Productions
272 - Alice in Chains
273 - Joe Liggins
274 - Toots and the Maytals
275 - Bill Monroe
276 - Brook Benton
277 - Luther Vandross
278 - Lucky Millinder
279 - A Tribe Called Quest
280 - Duran Duran
281 - Kate Bush
282 - Donovan
283 - Bjork
284 - Depeche Mode
285 - Dave Clark 5
286 - Lionel Hampton
287 - Nat King Cole
288 - Huey Lewis & the News
289 - The Pretenders
290 - Johnny Rivers
291 - Marvelettes
292 - Neil Sedaka
293 - Buffalo Springfield
294 - Ben E. King
295 - Bull Moose Jackson
296 - Charlie Christian
297 - Joe Cocker
298 - Little Anthony and the Imperials
299 - Dire Straits
300 - Jimmy Yancey
301 - TLC
302 - Chaka Khan
303 - Lenny Kravitz
304 - Judas Priest
305 - Brian Eno
306 - Massive Attack
307 - Todd Rundgren
308 - MC5
309 - Tiny Bradshaw
310 - Ronettes
311 - Fela Kuti
312 - The Replacements
313 - Dixie Hummingbirds
314 - KC and the Sunshine Band
315 - The Zombies
316 - Cat Stevens
317 - Son House
318 - Pete Seeger
319 - Jelly Roll Morton
320 - Nina Simone
321 - Five Keys
322 - Journey
323 - Dusty Springfield
324 - T. Rex
325 - Eurythmics
326 - Staple Singers
327 - Joan Jett and the Blackhearts
328 - Bobby Womack
329 - Gene Chandler
330 - Peter Gabriel
331 - Cheap Trick
332 - Gene Pitney
333 - Ma Rainey
334 - Stevie Ray Vaughan and Double Trouble
335 - Traffic
336 - Leonard Cohen
337 - Bill Withers
338 - Lou Reed
339 - Delta Rhythm Boys
340 - Tom Waits
341 - Squeeze
342 - Jeff Beck
343 - Darlene Love
344 - Randy Newman
345 - Larry Darnell
346 - Billy Wright
347 - Albert King
348 - Jimmy Cliff
349 - Bonnie Raitt
350 - Julia Lee
351 - The Small Faces/The Faces
352 - Dr. John
353 - Blind Willie McTell
354 - Miles Davis
355 - Wanda Jackson
356 - Freddie King
357 - Buddy Guy
358 - Joan Baez
359 - Stevie Nicks
360 - Percy Sledge
361 - The Paul Butterfield Blues Band
362 - Ritchie Valens
363 - Laura Nyro

Hymie
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Hymie » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:23 am

BobPatience wrote:I thought that this was a poll about the music of artists, not their importance or influence on later artists. I don't think that R.E.M. is a top 10 influential band, but that doesn't meant that their music isn't top 10 worthy.
You're right about that. The poll is the poll. It shows the favorites of the people here who voted in the poll. It's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy that the results would be fairly close to the most acclaimed acts, as most people would not join and stay around this forum unless they more or less agreed on much of the most acclaimed acts here in the first place.

Cold Butterfly
Let's Get It On
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:28 am
Location: Ashburn, Virginia

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Cold Butterfly » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:26 am

BobPatience wrote:
Cold Butterfly wrote: R.E.M. got their acclaim in the Springsteen and Talking Heads mold, in which they’re all acts who started out as critics’ darlings, and eventually found mass commercial success as well to balance out that critical acclaim. And let me tell you, music history has shown that a marriage between the record-buying public and critical community can cement a specific artists’ canonization. That’s not to completely discount them however. Although R.E.M. didn’t pioneer their sound, they helped spread it to a mass audience, and once they hit the big time, they kept striding to make leaps with their sound, not worrying if it was radio-friendly at all (I will admit that in spite that I might be the only person on this forum who can’t get into Automatic For The People). They also influenced a vast number of musicians, and helped forward alternative rock in a lot of ways. So there’s no doubt that they played an important role in popular music’s history.

However, ultimately, there’s no way in hell I can view R.E.M. as one of the top seven acts in musical history. Most of the acts I already mentioned far surprass R.E.M. in importance and influence, in my opinion. R.E.M. is one of alternative’s greatest bands, but good enough to be this high on this poll? I’m sorry, but I can’t agree with that at all.

Sorry, but I'm honestly curious. I thought that this was a poll about the music of artists, not their importance or influence on later artists. I don't think that R.E.M. is a top 10 influential band, but that doesn't meant that their music isn't top 10 worthy.
In several of my posts on here, i’ve explained that the music matters too. I’ve just happened to use influence in a lot of my arguments. Either way, i don’t think R.E.M.’s music is top ten worthy, as explained already.

Cold Butterfly
Let's Get It On
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:28 am
Location: Ashburn, Virginia

Re: AMF All Time Artists List 2019 - Results

Post by Cold Butterfly » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:33 am

My bad if it seems like I keep questioning this poll’s results, but i’m just expressing my opinion on the results of them. The point of polls like these are to provoke discussion, and i’m simply just taking part in that.

Post Reply