AM songs with more than one popular/acclaimed version

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Henrik
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AM songs with more than one popular/acclaimed version

Postby Henrik » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:21 pm

I would like to provide information about different popular/acclaimed versions on the song pages. But I’m not sure exactly how it would be presented, so any suggestions are welcome.

I’m thinking that this topic could be used to have a discussion about the presentation, but mainly for people to contribute with song info. For any song on AM that has more than one popular/acclaimed version I would like to know the following for each version:

Artist (including featured artists where applicable)
Title
Year
Release type (single, album track [include album title],...)*
If it’s a re-recording, remix or whatever (if this is not mentioned in the title)

* It would be really nice to have this info about every song, wouldn’t it!? But maybe too much work...

Also, there are some songs that have a lesser known originals. The ’84 version of ”West End Girls” comes to mind. It would be great to catch those here too.

Of course, let me know if you don’t think this is a good idea, but I hope that this is something that many people here are interested to help out with. Thanks in advance!
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Re: AM songs with more than one popular/acclaimed version

Postby StevieFan13 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:28 pm

Gonna figure this format out before I bring up the two first examples that come to mind, the live version of Whipping Post and the remix of Scenario.
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Re: AM songs with more than one popular/acclaimed version

Postby Shaun2oo3 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:41 pm

Flava In Year Ear jumped right to mind. But most sources are not clear on which specific version they are acclaiming, or may even be acclaiming one by default rather than because it's actually deemed to be the best version (i.e., the single edit will always be referenced on a singles list, even where an album edit may be considered superior).

White Christmas got rerecorded many times; the most often-heard version today is probably not the most-acclaimed, that being the original, which was so popular that the master takes were worn to the point that rerecording was necessary to produce additional copies for sale.

Generally, I think the original version of a song ought to be the one referenced at Acclaimed Music, except in cases where the evidence is overwhelming that some other version is preferred, as could be argued for the live No Woman No Cry, or perhaps also West End Girls.

Anyway, this is a great conversation to have. I look forward to everyone's thoughts!

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Re: AM songs with more than one popular/acclaimed version

Postby Sweepstakes Ron » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:44 pm

I have come across this problem at times when making my AM playlist in Apple Music. Some of the choices for which version to put in were fairly obvious, but there have been times when I've struggled with whether to put in the original or an alternate version. I do some research before making my decision of course, and try to avoid personal bias ("try"), but there are moments when I feel a bit guilty for picking one over the other.

Just as one example, I included the Thunderpuss remix of Whitney Houston's "It's Not Right but It's Okay" instead of the original. None of the critic's lists it appears on specifically mention this remix, but the Wikipedia article says "mainstream radio airplay and sales were given for the Thunderpuss Remix", and this article especially convinced me that my decision was right. My decisions can change, though: I had the studio version of "Free Bird" in the playlist for months before replacing it with the live version from "One More From the Road".

Anyways, I'm being a bit obsessive-compulsive about this stuff here, so whatever you have planned, Henrik, I'm happy to help.

EDIT: Not to mention, of course, that I'm fairly young and, for most of these songs, can only go off written accounts of what's been popular rather than actually having lived through their prime popularity.
Last edited by Sweepstakes Ron on Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AM songs with more than one popular/acclaimed version

Postby StevieFan13 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:47 pm

I can't think of how to format it the way you want, Henrik (someone smarter than me, help!), but here are a few I can think of:
- The Allman Brothers Band - Whipping Post (studio/Live at Fillmore East)
- Eric B. and Rakim - Paid in Full (original/7 Minutes of Madness)
- A Tribe Called Quest feat. Leaders of the New School - Scenario (original/remix)
- R. Kelly - Ignition (original which nobody talks about/remix)
- Beyonce - Daddy Lessons (original/Dixie Chicks collab)
- Nirvana - About a Girl/All Apologies (studio/MTV Unplugged)
- Derek and the Dominos/Eric Clapton - Layla (studio/MTV Unplugged/classical collab)
- Foo Fighters - Everlong (electric/acoustic)
- Lynyrd Skynyrd - Free Bird (studio/One More from the Road)
- Bob Marley and the Wailers - No Woman, No Cry (studio/live)
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Re: AM songs with more than one popular/acclaimed version

Postby Romain » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:54 pm

The man who sold the world (Bowie/Nirvana) is the first who come to my mind.

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Re: AM songs with more than one popular/acclaimed version

Postby Henrik » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:19 pm

Romain wrote:The man who sold the world (Bowie/Nirvana) is the first who come to my mind.

Sorry, but I haven’t been clear enough. Covers are not what I had in mind here. It’s for singular AM entries that could be referred to multiple recordings (by the same artist).

Even ATCQ’s ”Scenario” does not apply, as this now has two separate AM entries (since they are drastically different).
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Re: AM songs with more than one popular/acclaimed version

Postby BleuPanda » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:30 pm

I feel like the Fatboy Slim remix of "Brimful of Asha" is the popular version, and as before, I'd argue that the new version of True Love Waits should count as a different song than the 2001 live version (or at least be treated as the primary version).
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Re: AM songs with more than one popular/acclaimed version

Postby Pierre » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:31 pm

The Grateful Dead - Dark Star, perhaps? That's a guess, but the live version from Live/Dead might be acclaimed too.

Also, I remember that Belgian singer Arno's "Les Yeux de ma mère" might have been acclaimed in both a studio and a live version.

Regarding remixes, there's Underworld's "Born Slippy" of course.

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Re: AM songs with more than one popular/acclaimed version

Postby Romain » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:33 pm

Henrik wrote:
Romain wrote:The man who sold the world (Bowie/Nirvana) is the first who come to my mind.

Sorry, but I haven’t been clear enough. Covers are not what I had in mind here. It’s for singular AM entries that could be referred to multiple recordings (by the same artist).
.


My bad :?

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Re: AM songs with more than one popular/acclaimed version

Postby Sweepstakes Ron » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:35 pm

Jessie Ware's "Running": the remix by Disclosure appeared instead of the original in the half-decade lists by Pitchfork and Factmag.
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Re: AM songs with more than one popular/acclaimed version

Postby Henrik » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:15 pm

How about that for these songs the info

Release Year: XXXX

is replaced by

Acclaimed and/or Popular Versions:
Slimboy Fat - ”The Title Is This” on the Album ”The Title Is That” 1998
Slimboy Fat feat. The Funk Soul Brother - ”The Title Is This (Remix)” single 1999

The artist name would only be written out when there is a difference.
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Re: AM songs with more than one popular/acclaimed version

Postby Shaun2oo3 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:01 pm

My feeling is that no attempt should be made toward being exhaustive here, because that's increasingly impossible in a remix-happy recording world, but only where an alternate version's acclaim legitimately rivals or surpasses the original's. Not just, well this particular critic shouted out this particular version.

But that's just my take. It seems like parsing all this could become a full time job quickly, with limited rewards.

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Re: AM songs with more than one popular/acclaimed version

Postby tfguenther » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:33 pm

Like this?

Method Man - "Release Yo'delf" 1994
->
Method Man - "Release Yo'delf" Album Version from "Tical", 1994
Method Man - "Release Yo'delf (Prodigy Remix)", 1997

In this case the "end of the year"-lists refer to the single-version (which is almost identical to the album version). The mention in the all-time-list by Q-Magazine refers to the Prodigy-Remix. If Liam Howlett is referring to his own remix in the "Rough Guide Book" or to the album version remains uncertain, although the album "Tical" is mentioned.

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Re: AM songs with more than one popular/acclaimed version

Postby Jonathon » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:04 pm

Nirvana- About a Girl (Bleach, 1989)
Nirvana- About a Girl (MTV Unplugged in New York, 1994)
Nirvana- All Apologies (In Utero, 1993)
Nirvana- All Apologies (MTV Unplugged in New York, 1994)
Nirvana- Aneurysm ("Smells Like Teen Spirit" single, 1991)
Nirvana- Aneurysm (Incesticide, 1992)
Nirvana- Aneurysm (Muddy Banks of the Wishkah, 1996)
Nirvana- Polly (Nevermind, 1991)
Nirvana- Polly (MTV Unplugged in New York, 1994)
Nirvana- Something in The Way (Nevermind, 1991)
Nirvana- Something in The Way (MTV Unplugged in New York, 1994)

In all cases, the live versions were either posthumous charting hits in the United States, or had a presence on Nirvana's best of collection. After Cobain died, the Nirvana estate used alternate/ live versions of non-hit album stand outs like About a Girl, Polly, Drain You, and Aneurysm to promote MTV Unplugged and Muddy Banks.

In the case of Aneurysm, the B-side was the studio version, the Incesticide version was the radio version, and the Muddy Banks version was actually one of Nirvana's highest charting songs. Being a b-side, the song never really had a definitive album version.
Last edited by Jonathon on Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: AM songs with more than one popular/acclaimed version

Postby Krurze » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:05 pm

Floorplan
Never Grow Old
2013
Album track (Album: Paradise)

Floorplan
Never Grow Old (Re-Plant)
2014
Single

________________________

Cheap Trick
I Want You to Want me
1977
Single/Album track (Album: In Color)


Cheap Trick
I Want You to Want me
1979
Single/Album track (Album: At Budokan)
Live version

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Re: AM songs with more than one popular/acclaimed version

Postby Nassim » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:39 am

There probably should be a clear rule as to what does or doesn't qualify.
I'd say there are 4 that should be included : 2 easy and 2 more shadier :
1. Any version specifically cited at least once in a list that count for the AM ranking. For instance Pitchfork specifically included the Bun B and Rich Boy remix of Paper Planes in their best songs of 2000s list. Same for the EP version of Modern Age in Pitchfork 500... though this one would fit the next category too !
2. Any version that is not the original but that is included in an acclaimed album. That would especially help for deciding which live/unplugged versions should be included (Nirvana songs from MTV unplugged yes, acoustic version of Everlong)
3. Single versions different from the original one (hard part here is defining "different")
4. Potentially, maybe, songs where it is unclear which version is the acclaimed one (though it probably will usually fall in one of the previous categories). I have no idea which version of Temptation or Damaged Goods critics are voting for for instance.

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Re: AM songs with more than one popular/acclaimed version

Postby luney6 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:26 pm

Tim Buckley
Song to the Siren
1970 & 2001 (performed 1968)
Released in Starsailor in 1970. Then rereleased in 2001 on Morning Glory : The Tim Buckley anthology. This version was the one aired live in 1968, on the Monkees show.
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Re: AM songs with more than one popular/acclaimed version

Postby BleuPanda » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:44 pm

Related to this subject, I have a question:
Has "Never Be Alone" actually received acclaim outside of the "We Are Your Friends" version? It seems weird to have We Are Your Friends marked as 2004, and having just listened to the 'original,' it feels more like "We Are Your Friends" simply samples that song, though I see Wikipedia has it marked as a 'remix.' Does anyone here really consider these the same song? With "True Love Waits," you can say the lyrics and chord progressions are the same even if the instrumentation and performance is massively different, but I really don't see "Never Be Alone" deserving credit for what "We Are Your Friends" does. I think they gave it its own name for a reason.

I guess this brings up the question of, where is the line drawn between a remix and an original song consisting of heavy sampling from a single source.
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Re: AM songs with more than one popular/acclaimed version

Postby Henrik » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:31 pm

BleuPanda wrote:Related to this subject, I have a question:
Has "Never Be Alone" actually received acclaim outside of the "We Are Your Friends" version? It seems weird to have We Are Your Friends marked as 2004, and having just listened to the 'original,' it feels more like "We Are Your Friends" simply samples that song, though I see Wikipedia has it marked as a 'remix.' Does anyone here really consider these the same song? With "True Love Waits," you can say the lyrics and chord progressions are the same even if the instrumentation and performance is massively different, but I really don't see "Never Be Alone" deserving credit for what "We Are Your Friends" does. I think they gave it its own name for a reason.

I guess this brings up the question of, where is the line drawn between a remix and an original song consisting of heavy sampling from a single source.

Justice’s remix of Simian’s ”Never Be Alone” (from 2002, which has its own AM entry) was actually first released as ”Never Be Alone” in 2004, before they changed the title to ”We Are Your Friends” in 2006.
https://rateyourmusic.com/release/single/justice_vs_simian/never_be_alone/

Unless I’ve got it totally wrong.
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Re: AM songs with more than one popular/acclaimed version

Postby BleuPanda » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:38 pm

Henrik wrote:
BleuPanda wrote:Related to this subject, I have a question:
Has "Never Be Alone" actually received acclaim outside of the "We Are Your Friends" version? It seems weird to have We Are Your Friends marked as 2004, and having just listened to the 'original,' it feels more like "We Are Your Friends" simply samples that song, though I see Wikipedia has it marked as a 'remix.' Does anyone here really consider these the same song? With "True Love Waits," you can say the lyrics and chord progressions are the same even if the instrumentation and performance is massively different, but I really don't see "Never Be Alone" deserving credit for what "We Are Your Friends" does. I think they gave it its own name for a reason.

I guess this brings up the question of, where is the line drawn between a remix and an original song consisting of heavy sampling from a single source.

Justice’s remix of Simian’s ”Never Be Alone” (from 2002, which has its own AM entry) was actually first released as ”Never Be Alone” in 2004, before they changed the title to ”We Are Your Friends” in 2006.
https://rateyourmusic.com/release/single/justice_vs_simian/never_be_alone/

Unless I’ve got it totally wrong.



Hmm...that's confusing. Why re-release it as "We Are Your Friends" two years later? That makes more sense, I guess...
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