Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

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BleuPanda
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Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby BleuPanda » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:11 pm

After recent discussions in the Hall of Acclaim, demographic survey, and All-Time album poll results topic, I have decided to host three surveys about women in music: a top 250 song, 100 album, and 100 artist poll. Here's a few rules for eligibility:
1. Any woman who performs as a solo act is obviously eligible
2. Any band with a woman as a lead singer, or where the majority of its members are women are eligible. She must be the lead singer the majority of the time to be eligible for the artist poll (so Arcade Fire songs with Regine as the lead are fine for the song poll, but Arcade Fire would not be acceptable for the album or artist poll)
3. For the artist poll, I will accept votes for individual women to represent multiple projects, or for women who would otherwise be ineligible due to the above rules (so you can specifically vote for the only woman in a band full of men if you think they are individually notable enough). Specific people I want to draw attention to:
a. Karin Elisabeth Dreijer to represent both The Knife and her solo work as Fever Ray
b. Kathleen Hanna for her work with Bikini Kill, Le Tigre, and other projects
c. Stevie Nicks for her work with Fleetwood Mac and her solo career
d. Kim Deal for work with Pixies and The Breeders
e. Lauryn Hill for work with Fugees and solo

Rules on submissions:
1. You can submit up to a top 250 song list, a top 100 album list, and a top 100 artist list
2. The minimum list size for songs is 100, the minimum for albums and artists is 50
3. I think the final results will be 500 songs, 250 albums, and 250 artists, but I'll make the final decision once I see how the results look
4. Post your lists in this topic
5. The deadline will be December 31 at midnight CST.

I will use the formulas from recent all-time polls for the results.
Last edited by BleuPanda on Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Pierre
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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Submissions (Until December 31)

Postby Pierre » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:29 pm

BleuPanda wrote:2. Any band with a woman as a lead singer, or where the majority of its members are women are eligible. She must be the lead singer the majority of the time to be eligible for the artist poll (so Arcade Fire songs with Regine as the lead are fine for the song poll, but Arcade Fire would not be acceptable for the album or artist poll)
c. Stevie Nicks for her work with Fleetwood Mac and her solo career


Let's settle this already: Fleetwood Mac albums starting in 1975 are eligible, but Sonic Youth definitely not. Am I right?

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Submissions (Until December 31)

Postby Live in Phoenix » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:31 pm

Haha, someone else has simultaneously asked a Fleetwood Mac question...

So, I guess Fleetwood Mac and Rumours would be a wash, and not eligible. Would My Bloody Valentine and Isn't Anything and Loveless be eligible?

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Submissions (Until December 31)

Postby BleuPanda » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:40 pm

Artists I'm not sure about:
The Human League (decided to include)
The xx (I went with just Romy at a lower position than I would rank the full band)
Fleetwood Mac (went with just Stevie Nicks)
My Bloody Valentine (excluded entirely)


Top 100 Artists for now (I plan to delve deeper into many of these artists over the next couple months):
1. Bjork
2. Karin Elisabeth Dreijer
3. St. Vincent
4. PJ Harvey
5. Portishead
6. Patti Smith
7. Grimes
8. Kate Bush
9. Beyonce
10. The Supremes
11. Yeah Yeah Yeahs
12. M.I.A.
13. Madonna
14. Missy Elliot
15. Kathleen Hanna
16. Courtney Barnett
17. ANOHNI/Antony and the Johnsons
18. Blondie
19. Joni Mitchell
20. Aretha Franklin
21. Jefferson Airplane
22. Kim Deal
23. The Human League
24. Sleater-Kinney
25. Stevie Nicks
26. Sleigh Bells
27. Janelle Monae
28. Romy Madley Croft (The xx)
29. FKA twigs
30. Beach House
31. Lorde
32. Solange
33. Janis Joplin
34. Cyndi Lauper
35. Joanna Newsom
36. Tune-Yards
37. Lauryn Hill
38. Chvrches
39. Donna Summer
40. Billie Holiday
41. Go-Go's
42. Santigold
43. Hole
44. The Sundays
45. Amy Winehouse
46. Julia Holter
47. Jessie Ware
48. Robyn
49. Nina Simone
50. Dusty Springfield
51. Sharon Van Etten
52. Tracy Chapman
53. Chic
54. X-Ray Spex
55. The Go! Team
56. Julee Cruise
57. Eurythmics
58. Mitski
59. Nicki Minaj
60. Erykah Badu
61. Nico
62. Fiona Apple
63. Pretenders
64. The Slits
65. Angel Olsen
66. Savages
67. Bat for Lashes
68. Lana Del Rey
69. Carly Rae Jepsen
70. The Ronettes
71. Chromatics
72. Elastica
73. Lauryn Hill
74. Anais Mitchell
75. Sheena Ringo
76. Les Rita Mitsouko
77. Kylie Minogue
78. Nancy Sinatra
79. Laurie Anderson
80. Sinead O'Connor
81. Liz Phair
82. Suzanne Vega
83. Carole King
84. Althea and Donna
85. Frida Hyvonen
86. Edith Piaf
87. Nelly Furtado
88. Adele
89. Feist
90. Mazzy Star
91. Kelis
92. Heart
93. Destiny's Child
94. Alanis Morrisette
95. CSS
96. Deee-Lite
97. Patsy Cline
98. Lady Gaga
99. EMA
100. Martha and the Vandellas

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Submissions (Until December 31)

Postby Pierre » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:40 pm

Live in Phoenix wrote:Haha, someone else has simultaneously asked a Fleetwood Mac question...

So, I guess Fleetwood Mac and Rumours would be a wash, and not eligible. Would My Bloody Valentine and Isn't Anything and Loveless be eligible?


Funny, I have the opposite conclusion about Fleetwood Mac. Interesting question about My Bloody Valentine, and weird I didn't think of it first. I guess eligibility is complicated, although Bilinda Butcher is definitely one of the main reasons I love that band so much.

Also, another ambiguous situation: I guess Against Me! may be eligible starting with Transgender Dysphoria Blues.

There's also the less famous case of Wayne/Jayne County, but I guess nobody's going to vote for her anyway.

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Submissions (Until December 31)

Postby BleuPanda » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:42 pm

Pierre wrote:
BleuPanda wrote:2. Any band with a woman as a lead singer, or where the majority of its members are women are eligible. She must be the lead singer the majority of the time to be eligible for the artist poll (so Arcade Fire songs with Regine as the lead are fine for the song poll, but Arcade Fire would not be acceptable for the album or artist poll)
c. Stevie Nicks for her work with Fleetwood Mac and her solo career


Let's settle this already: Fleetwood Mac albums starting in 1975 are eligible, but Sonic Youth definitely not. Am I right?



This is the struggle for both Fleetwood Mac and the xx. I'd need to double-check how many tracks on each album has which vocalist; as long as it's a majority, that's fine. The xx has many duets between a man and woman, so I'm not sure how to count those, especially when I get to songs...

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Submissions (Until December 31)

Postby BleuPanda » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:45 pm

Pierre wrote:Also, another ambiguous situation: I guess Against Me! may be eligible starting with Transgender Dysphoria Blues.

There's also the less famous case of Wayne/Jayne County, but I guess nobody's going to vote for her anyway.



All transwomen are eligible for all of their work, before and after coming out. (I originally had a paragraph where I contemplated the inclusion of non-binary artists, but the only one it would likely affect would be Shamir, since most other major non-binary artists are treated like women, such as Grimes and Miley Cyrus - they, of course, are eligible).

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Submissions (Until December 31)

Postby Live in Phoenix » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:04 pm

Certainly duets must count...I'm thinking of Stevie Nicks duetting on her own solo album with Don Henley, for instance ("Leather and Lace"). Or Whitney Houston duetting with...some guy on her debut album. I feel like it's still Stevie's, and Whitney's, show. Some other cases might be odder.

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Submissions (Until December 31)

Postby Listyguy » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:22 pm

Live in Phoenix wrote:Certainly duets must count...I'm thinking of Stevie Nicks duetting on her own solo album with Don Henley, for instance ("Leather and Lace"). Or Whitney Houston duetting with...some guy on her debut album. I feel like it's still Stevie's, and Whitney's, show. Some other cases might be odder.

I agree with this. Obviously something like "Gimme Shelter" shouldn't count, but I feel like any straight up duet should be allowed.

I'm sure we'll have plenty more edge cases come up in the coming months....maybe make a separate thread for them to be discussed?

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Submissions (Until December 31)

Postby StevieFan13 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:26 pm

Gonna get the jump on songs.

1. Sixpence None the Richer - Kiss Me
2. Aretha Franklin - Respect
3. The Pretenders - Brass in Pocket
4. Yeah Yeah Yeahs - Maps
5. Kitten - Kill the Light
6. 10,000 Maniacs - Because the Night
7. Grimes - Oblivion
8. Adele - Rolling in the Deep
9. Kacey Musgraves - Follow Your Arrow
10. Beyonce - Countdown
11. The Pogues feat. Kirsty MacColl - Fairytale of New York
12. The Breeders - Cannonball
13. Fiona Apple - Criminal
14. Edith Piaf - Non, je ne regrette rien
15. M.I.A. - Paper Planes
16. Tracy Chapman - Fast Car
17. ABBA - Dancing Queen
18. Madonna - Like a Prayer
19. Ella Fitzgerald - Mack the Knife
20. Kate Bush - Wuthering Heights
21. Sinead O'Connor - Mandinka
22. Billie Holiday - Strange Fruit
23. Fleetwood Mac - Landslide
24. Missy Elliott - Get Ur Freak On
25. Carly Rae Jepsen - Run Away with Me
26. Mark Ronson feat. Amy Winehouse - Valerie
27. Charli XCX - Boom Clap
28. Sleater-Kinney - Get Up
29. Joan Jett and the Blackhearts - Bad Reputation
30. Sinead O'Connor - Nothing Compares 2 U
31. Kate Bush - Running Up That Hill (A Deal with God)
32. Natalie Imbruglia - Torn
33. Nina Simone - Mississippi Goddam
34. Tori Amos - Cruel
35. Tori Amos - Silent All These Years
36. Beyonce feat. Jay-Z - Crazy in Love
37. The Ronettes - Be My Baby
38. Madonna - Hung Up
39. Kelly Clarkson - Since U Been Gone
40. Big Brother and the Holding Company - Piece of My Heart
41. Justice - D.A.N.C.E. (I mean, the vocals are by women...)
42. Philippa Soo - Burn
43. Lana del Rey - Video Games
44. Judee Sill - Crayon Angels
45. Joni Mitchell - A Case of You
46. M.I.A. - Galang
47. The Gossip - Standing in the Way of Control
48. The Mamas and the Papas - California Dreamin'
49. Donna Summer - I Feel Love
50. Robyn - Dancing on My Own
51. Sky Ferreira - Lost in My Bedroom
52. ABBA - Take a Chance on Me
53. Christine and the Queens - Tilted
54. The Staple Singers - I'll Take You There
55. TLC - Waterfalls
56. Aretha Franklin - (You Make Me Feel Like) A Natural Woman
57. Carole King - It's Too Late
58. Nelly Furtado - Say It Right
59. Madonna - Vogue
60. Neneh Cherry - Buffalo Stance
61. Britney Spears - Toxic
62. Massive Attack - Unfinished Sympathy
63. Beth Leavel - As We Stumble Along
64. Kate Bush - Hounds of Love
65. Duffy - Mercy
66. Kylie Minogue - Can't Get You Out of My Head
67. Madonna - Into the Groove
68. Joan Jett and the Blackhearts - I Love Rock 'N Roll
69. Taylor Swift - Style
70. Martha and the Vandellas - Dancing in the Streets
71. Portishead - Sour Times
72. Amy Winehouse - Back to Black
73. Kate Nash - Foundations
74. Fugees - Killing Me Softly
75. Nina Simone - Sinnerman
76. Shirley & Company - Shame, Shame, Shame
77. Lauryn Hill - Doo Wop (That Thing)
78. Ofra Haza - Im Nin'alu
79. Dirty Projectors - Stillness is the Move
80. Nico - These Days
81. t.A.T.u. - All the Things She Said
82. Bikini Kill - Rebel Girl
83. PJ Harvey - Sheela-Na-Gig
84. Carole King - I Feel the Earth Move
85. The Go-Go's - Our Lips Are Sealed
86. Elis Regina and Antonio Carlos Jobim - Aguas de Marco
87. Fleetwood Mac - Tusk
88. Santigold - L.E.S. Artistes
89. Shakira feat. Wyclef Jean - Hips Don't Lie
90. Blondie - Call Me
91. Saint Etienne - Only Love Can Break Your Heart
92. Patti Smith - Gloria
93. Dixie Chicks - Not Ready to Make Nice
94. Sleater-Kinney - Dig Me Out
95. Bonnie Raitt - I Can't Make You Love Me
96. Blondie - Hanging on the Telephone
97. Alannah Myles - Black Velvet
98. Althea and Donna - Uptown Top Ranking
99. Stan Getz and Astrud Gilberto - Garota de Ipanema
100. Madonna - Crazy for You
101. Blondie - Rapture
102. Lena Horne - Stormy Weather
103. Shania Twain - You're Still the One
104. Chic - Good Times
105. Gladys Knight and the Pips - Midnight Train to Georgia
106. The Cardigans - Lovefool
107. Erykah Badu - On & On
108. The Bangles - Walk Like an Egyptian
109. Cyndi Lauper - True Colors
110. Jean Knight - Mr. Big Stuff
111. Aretha Franklin - Think
112. Gwen Stefani feat. Akon - The Sweet Escape
113. The Passions - I'm in Love with a German Film Star
114. Elastica - Connection
115. Mary J. Blige and Method Man - I'll Be There for You/You're All I Need to Get By
116. Beth Orton - She Cries Your Name
117. X-Ray Spex - Oh Bondage! Up Yours!
118. Madonna - Don't Tell Me
119. Metric - Gold Guns Girls
120. Mtume - Juicy Fruit
121. The Seekers - I'll Never Find Another You
122. The Crystals - Da Doo Ron Ron
123. The Pointer Sisters - The Neutron Dance
124. Divinyls - Boys in Town
125. Amy Winehouse - Rehab
126. Bobbie Gentry - Ode to Billie Joe
127. Patsy Cline - Crazy
128. Dionne Warwick - Walk on By
129. Lizzo - Good as Hell
130. Peaches - Fuck the Pain Away
131. ABBA - S.O.S.
132. Courtney Barnett - Pedestrian at Best
133. Dusty Springfield - Son of a Preacher Man
134. Kim Carnes - Bettie Davis Eyes
135. Laura Nyro - Wedding Bell Blues
136. Nena - 99 Luftballons
137. Celia Cruz - La Vida es Un Carnaval
138. Secret Garden - Nocturne
139. Sugababes - Freak Like Me
140. Salt-N-Pepa - Push It
141. Feist - 1234
142. Linda Jones - I Just Can't Live My Life (Without You Babe)
143. Laurie Anderson - O Superman
144. Lorde - Green Light
145. Lorde - Royals
146. Sandy Denny - Blackwater Side
147. Tune-Yards - Gangsta
148. Billie Holiday - God Bless the Child
149. Aretha Franklin - The Weight
150. Blondie - Heart of Glass
151. Gloria Gaynor - I Will Survive
152. Antony and the Johnsons - Hope There's Someone
153. The Pretenders - Talk of the Town
154. Eurythmics - Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This)
155. AURORA - Through the Eyes of a Child
156. Regina Spektor - Small Bill$
157. Dolly Parton - Jolene
158. Alanis Morrissette - You Oughta Know
159. Holly McNarland - Numb
160. Ellie Goulding - Lights
161. Amy Winehouse - Tears Dry on Their Own
162. Cub - New York City
163. Vice Squad - Black Sheep
164. Vera Lynn - We'll Meet Again
165. Norah Jones - Don't Know Why
166. Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds feat. Kylie Minogue - Where the Wild Roses Grow
167. ABBA - Waterloo
168. Katrina & The Waves - Love Shine a Light
169. Lena - Satellite
170. Madonna - Borderline
171. Annie - Heartbeat
172. Talk in Tongues - Still Don't Seem to Care
173. Miriam Makeba - The House of the Rising Sun
174. Amy Winehouse - Fuck Me Pumps
175. No Doubt - Don't Speak
176. Stevie Nicks feat. Tom Petty - Stop Draggin' My Heart Around
177. No Doubt - Spiderwebs
176. The Interrupters - She Got Arrested
177. Pixies - Gigantic
178. Lucy Dacus - I Don't Wanna Be Funny Anymore
179. Brandy and Monica - The Boy is Mine
180. Soho - Hippychick

May add onto this later
Music is a world within itself, with a language we all understand - Sir Duke (1976)

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Submissions (Until December 31)

Postby bonnielaurel » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:28 pm

So for the artsist's poll should I vote for Diana Ross + The Supremes as one artist rather than treat them as two separate acts? The same for Beyoncé + Destiny's Child.

I think I'll include bands with female lead singers like Sade, ABBA, Blondie, Pretenders, Paramore, Garbage, Portishead etc., but not bands that are predominantly male, like Talking Heads, Arcade Fire or The VU + Nico. I'll vote for Stevie Nicks + Fleetwood Mac as one act, only counting the songs where she contributes.
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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Submissions (Until December 31)

Postby BleuPanda » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:37 pm

bonnielaurel wrote:So for the artsist's poll should I vote for Diana Ross + The Supremes as one artist rather than treat them as two separate acts? The same for Beyoncé + Destiny's Child.

I think I'll include bands with female lead singers like Sade, ABBA, Blondie, Pretenders, Paramore, Garbage, Portishead etc., but not bands that are predominantly male, like Talking Heads, Arcade Fire or The VU + Nico. I'll vote for Stevie Nicks + Fleetwood Mac as one act, only counting the songs where she contributes.



Hmm...I guess this is also an issue with Kathleen Hanna. Maybe, if someone is part of two all-woman acts, all groups should be counted separately.

Would other people agree that Diana Ross and The Supremes/Beyonce and Destiny's Child/Le Tigre and Bikini Kill should be counted separately because both sides are fully eligible? Meanwhile, I still support people like Stevie Nicks and Kim Deal as standalone because they're big names, but at least partially for their work with non-eligible groups.

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Submissions (Until December 31)

Postby BleuPanda » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:42 pm

...perhaps I should turn this into a planning topic and then start the actual submission topic at the beginning of next month.

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Submissions (Until December 31)

Postby Hymie » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:43 pm

It's a dark dreary day here, and it will be pouring rain soon, so I am gonna work on my song list.

This will have a prominent spot:



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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby Hymie » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:45 pm

Okay, I know that there will be a new thread for lists, but here is my song list:


1 ¦ I Need Your Lovin' ¦ Don Gardner & Dee Dee Ford - 62
2 ¦ Feel So Good ¦ Shirley & Lee - 55
3 ¦ Your Daddy's Dogging Around ¦ Todd Rhodes (Connie Allen) - 52
4 ¦ No Need Acting Like That ¦ Mamie Ree - 55
5 ¦ Jim Dandy ¦ LaVern Baker - 56
6 ¦ Rocket 69 ¦ Todd Rhodes (Connie Allen) - 52
7 ¦ Baby Loves Him ¦ Wanda Jackson - 57
8 ¦ Aged And Mellow ¦ Little Esther - 52
9 ¦ Upside Your Head ¦ Buddy & Ella Johnson - 55
10 ¦ Wang Dang Doodle ¦ Koko Taylor - 66
11 ¦ Respect ¦ Aretha Franklin - 67
12 ¦ Let The Good Times Roll ¦ Shirley & Lee - 56
13 ¦ The Deacon Moves In ¦ Little Esther & the Dominoes - 51
14 ¦ Monday, Monday ¦ Mamas & Papas - 66
15 ¦ I Heard It Through The Grapevine ¦ Gladys Knight and the Pips - 67
16 ¦ Hound Dog ¦ Big Mama Thornton - 63
17 ¦ Fine And Mellow (Live) ¦ Billie Holiday - 57
18 ¦ Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On ¦ Big Maybelle - 55
19 ¦ Tweedle Dee ¦ LaVern Baker - 54
20 ¦ Ain't That Love ¦ Brenda Lee - 57
21 ¦ Don't Shout At Me, Daddy ¦ Buddy & Ella Johnson - 58
22 ¦ Cool Love ¦ Wanda Jackson - 57
23 ¦ A Rockin' Good Way ¦ Brook Benton & Dinah Washington - 60
24 ¦ Saturday Night Daddy ¦ Little Esther - 52
25 ¦ Fujiama Mama ¦ Wanda Jackson - 57
26 ¦ That's How I Feel About You ¦ Buddy & Ella Johnson - 53
27 ¦ Don't Mess With My Man ¦ Irma Thomas - 59
28 ¦ 5-10-15 Hours ¦ Ruth Brown - 52
29 ¦ Good Rockin' Daddy ¦ Etta James - 55
30 ¦ Send For Me ¦ Big Maybelle - 53
31 ¦ Hot Dog! That Made Him Mad ¦ Wanda Jackson - 56
32 ¦ I'm Gonna Make You Love Me ¦ Supremes & Temptations - 68
33 ¦ Lovable Lily ¦ Mellows - 55
34 ¦ Come And Get These Memories ¦ Martha and the Vandellas - 63
35 ¦ The One Who Really Loves You ¦ Mary Wells - 62
36 ¦ Since You've Been Gone ¦ Aretha Franklin - 68
37 ¦ Venus ¦ Shocking Blue - 69
38 ¦ I'll Take You There ¦ Staple Singers - 72
39 ¦ Any Day Now ¦ Buddy & Ella Johnson - 54
40 ¦ Long John Blues ¦ Dinah Washington - 49
41 ¦ Go Where You Wanna Go ¦ 5th Dimension - 66
42 ¦ That's What I'll Do ¦ Shirley & Lee - 56
43 ¦ (Mama) He Treats Your Daughter Mean ¦ Ruth Brown - 53
44 ¦ Hittin' On Me ¦ Buddy & Ella Johnson - 53
45 ¦ Poor Fool ¦ Ike & Tina Turner - 61
46 ¦ Drugstore Rock And Roll ¦ Janis Martin - 56
47 ¦ Broken Hearted Melody ¦ Sarah Vaughan - 59
48 ¦ One Monkey Don't Stop No Show ¦ Big Maybelle - 55
49 ¦ Sleigh Ride ¦ Ronettes - 63
50 ¦ Walkin' After Midnight ¦ Patsy Cline - 57
51 ¦ Honey Bop ¦ Wanda Jackson - 58
52 ¦ The Wallflower ¦ Etta James - 55
53 ¦ California Dreamin' ¦ Mamas and Papas - 65
54 ¦ The Walkin' Blues ¦ Jesse Powell (Fluffy Hunter) - 52
55 ¦ Mixed Up Shook Up Girl ¦ Patty and the Emblems - 64
56 ¦ Bring It Home To Me ¦ Buddy & Ella Johnson - 56
57 ¦ Double Crossing Blues ¦ Johnny Otis (Little Esther and the Robins) - 50
58 ¦ I Will Move On Up A Little Higher ¦ Mahalia Jackson - 55
59 ¦ Annie's Answer ¦ Hazel McCollum & the El Dorados - 54
60 ¦ I Wanna Know ¦ Dolly Cooper - 53
61 ¦ Love Contest ¦ Ruth Brown - 54
62 ¦ Yes Indeed! ¦ Orioles featuring Moms Mabley - 52
63 ¦ Think ¦ Aretha Franklin - 68
64 ¦ Clean Up Woman ¦ Betty Wright - 71
65 ¦ Your Precious Love ¦ Linda Jones - 72
66 ¦ Didn't You Know (You'd Have To Cry Sometime) ¦ Gladys Knight & Pips - 69
67 ¦ I'm Gonna Do All I Can (To Do Right By My Man) ¦ Ike & Tina Turner - 69
68 ¦ Chicken Shack ¦ Ike & Tina Turner - 65
69 ¦ Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On ¦ Valerie Wellington - 89
70 ¦ No! I Ain't Gonna Let You Go ¦ Buddy & Ella Johnson - 57
71 ¦ Sick And Tired ¦ Lula Reed - 54
72 ¦ Mercy Me ¦ Lil Greenwood & the Lamplighters - 54
73 ¦ Winter Wonderland ¦ Darlene Love - 63
74 ¦ Tell Me Something Good ¦ Rufus - 74
75 ¦ Heart of Glass ¦ Blondie - 78
76 ¦ Think (About It) ¦ Lynn Collins - 72
77 ¦ The Plea ¦ Chantels - 57
78 ¦ (The Best Part of) Breakin' Up ¦ Ronettes - 64
79 ¦ Barefoot Baby ¦ Janis Martin - 56
80 ¦ When The Lovelight Starts Shining Through His Eyes ¦ Supremes - 63
81 ¦ Baby Don't Go ¦ Sonny & Cher - 64
82 ¦ Love Makes A Woman ¦ Barbara Acklin - 68
83 ¦ Mr. Big Stuff ¦ Jean Knight - 71
84 ¦ Midnight Train To Georgia ¦ Gladys Knight & Pips - 73
85 ¦ Take Out Your False Teeth Daddy ¦ Margie Day - 54
86 ¦ Hoy Hoy ¦ Collins Kids - 57
87 ¦ I Diddie ¦ Dinah Washington - 55
88 ¦ One Step At A Time ¦ Brenda Lee - 57
89 ¦ Beer Bottle Boogie ¦ Koko Taylor - 85
90 ¦ Down Home Blues ¦ Denise LaSalle - 83
91 ¦ I'm Givin' All My Love ¦ Lula Reed - 55
92 ¦ Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep ¦ Mac & Katie Kissoon - 71
93 ¦ You've Been A Good Old Wagon ¦ Bessie Smith - 25
94 ¦ Rock It For Me ¦ Ella Fitzgerald - 37
95 ¦ Shout, Sister, Shout ¦ Lucky Millinder (Sister Rosetta Tharpe) - 42
96 ¦ Why Don't You Do Right ¦ Benny Goodman (Peggy Lee) - 42
97 ¦ Romance In The Dark ¦ Lil Green - 40
98 ¦ Teardrops From My Eyes ¦ Ruth Brown - 50
99 ¦ Maybe ¦ Chantels - 57
100 ¦ Ruler Of My Heart ¦ Irma Thomas - 63

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby acroamor » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:46 pm

I’m going to assume that Yeah Yeah Yeahs / Karen O would be considered as one artist? As well as Micachu and the Shapes / Mica Levi?

I’m curious how we would count songs like, say, “Scale it Back” by DJ Shadow ft. Little Dragon, which features a female singer on a male-produced instrumental.

And overall, I’m continuously surprised by the lack of support for female artists in this forum. I personally prefer female voices as a general rule, particularly when it comes to newer releases. So to that effect, I support this poll’s existence.

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby Hymie » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:18 pm

My 100 favorite Female Artists:

1 ¦ BUDDY & ELLA JOHNSON
2 ¦ LITTLE ESTHER PHILLIPS
3 ¦ RUTH BROWN
4 ¦ ARETHA FRANKLIN
5 ¦ BIG MAYBELLE
6 ¦ DINAH WASHINGTON
7 ¦ SHIRLEY & LEE
8 ¦ IKE & TINA TURNER
9 ¦ WANDA JACKSON
10 ¦ LAVERN BAKER
11 ¦ LINDA JONES
12 ¦ WILLIE MAE "BIG MAMA" THORNTON
13 ¦ SUPREMES
14 ¦ GLADYS KNIGHT & THE PIPS
15 ¦ BILLIE HOLIDAY
16 ¦ LULA REED
17 ¦ CHANTELS
18 ¦ ETTA JAMES
19 ¦ CARLA THOMAS
20 ¦ DOLLY COOPER
21 ¦ VARETTA DILLARD
22 ¦ CAPRIS (Renee Hinton)
23 ¦ MELLOWS (Lillian Leeech)
24 ¦ IRMA THOMAS
25 ¦ ANNIE LAURIE
26 ¦ MARY WELLS
27 ¦ BRENDA LEE
28 ¦ MARTHA & THE VANDELLAS
29 ¦ KO KO TAYLOR
30 ¦ BABY WASHINGTON
31 ¦ BESSIE SMITH
32 ¦ JULIA LEE
33 ¦ GRIFFIN BROTHERS & MARGIE DAY
34 ¦ MAXINE BROWN
35 ¦ FIFTH DIMENSION
36 ¦ CHRISTINE KITTRELL
37 ¦ MAMAS & PAPAS
38 ¦ JANIS MARTIN
39 ¦ DENISE LaSALLE
40 ¦ DARLENE LOVE
41 ¦ CRYSTALS
42 ¦ CONNIE ALLEN
43 ¦ DON GARDNER & DEE DEE FORD
44 ¦ FAYE ADAMS
45 ¦ STAPLE SINGERS
46 ¦ DIONNE WARWICK
47 ¦ RONETTES
48 ¦ BETTY WRIGHT
49 ¦ MARVELETTES
50 ¦ SHIRELLES
51 ¦ ELLA FITZGERALD
52 ¦ LAURA LEE
53 ¦ SUGAR PIE DeSANTO
54 ¦ NELLIE LUTCHER
55 ¦ MICKEY & SYLVIA
56 ¦ HONEY CONE
57 ¦ CAROLE KING
58 ¦ PATSY CLINE
59 ¦ JACKIE ROSS
60 ¦ KAY STARR
61 ¦ SISTER ROSETTA THARPE
62 ¦ BOSWELL SISTERS / CONNEE BOSWELL
63 ¦ BLONDIE
64 ¦ SHIRLEY GUNTER
65 ¦ BARBARA LEWIS
66 ¦ JACKIE DESHANNON
67 ¦ DONNA SUMMER
68 ¦ ANNISTEEN ALLEN
69 ¦ MAHALIA JACKSON
70 ¦ THE HEARTS
71 ¦ COLLINS KIDS
72 ¦ PEGGY LEE
73 ¦ ANN COLE
74 ¦ PATTI LABELLE & BLUE BELLES / LABELLE
75 ¦ DUSTY SPRINGFIELD
76 ¦ LIL GREEN
77 ¦ COOKIES
78 ¦ ORLONS
79 ¦ CARPENTERS
80 ¦ BETTY EVERETT
81 ¦ JOAN JETT
82 ¦ BARBARA LYNN
83 ¦ PETULA CLARK
84 ¦ TAMMI TERRELL
85 ¦ ANDREWS SISTERS
86 ¦ NINA SIMONE
87 ¦ LINDA HAYES
88 ¦ ETHEL WATERS
89 ¦ SOPHIE TUCKER
90 ¦ MILDRED BAILEY
91 ¦ JANIS JOPLIN
92 ¦ BARBARA ACKLIN
93 ¦ WAITRESSES
94 ¦ BETTYE SWANN
95 ¦ GLORIA GAYNOR
96 ¦ KEELY SMITH
97 ¦ PAT BENETAR
98 ¦ BARBARA MASON
99 ¦ RUBY AND THE ROMANTICS
100 ¦ AD-LIBS

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Submissions (Until December 31)

Postby Jackson » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:55 pm

BleuPanda wrote:My Bloody Valentine (excluded entirely)


5. Portishead


Both of these artists are in somewhat of a gray area for this poll, but why would Portishead (1 of 3 female members) be eligible if My Bloody Valentine (2 of 4 female members) is not?

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Submissions (Until December 31)

Postby BleuPanda » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:07 pm

Jackson wrote:
BleuPanda wrote:My Bloody Valentine (excluded entirely)


5. Portishead


Both of these artists are in somewhat of a gray area for this poll, but why would Portishead (1 of 3 female members) be eligible if My Bloody Valentine (2 of 4 female members) is not?



I guess for me, I see Beth Gibbons as the face of Portishead, but I see Kevin Shields as the face of My Bloody Valentine. Same thing with Yeah Yeah Yeah; it's two guys and a girl, but I always think of Karen O when I think of that band. I guess a big part of it is perception...

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby madzong » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:03 am

1. Blondie
2. Patti Smith/Patti Smith Band
3. Headless Chickens
4. Hole
5. M.I.A.
6. No Doubt
7. Kim Deal/The Breeders
8. Yeah Yeah Yeahs
9. The Pretenders
10. Lorde
11. Portishead
12. Florence & The Machine
13. Garbage
14. Stevie Nicks/Fleetwood Mac
15. Elastica
16. L7
17. X-Ray Spex
18. The Slits
19. Janis Joplin/Big Brother & The Holding Company
20. Jefferson Airplane
21. Bjork
22. Neneh Cherry
23. The Go-Go's
24. The Mamas & The Papas (Hopefully this counts?)
25. Chromatics
26. Chvrches
27. Cyndi Lauper
28. Eurythmics
29. Mazzy Star
30. The Sundays
31. The Bangles
32. Human League
33. Amy Winehouse
34.. Sleater-Kinney
35. Alanis Morrisette
36. Sheryl Crow
37. PJ Harvey
38. Tori Amos
39. Lana Del Rey
40. Fiona Apple
41. Cocteau Twins
42. Kate Bush
43. Sinead O'Connor
44. Santigold
45. Grimes
46. Bat For Lashes
47. Cat Power
48. St. Vincent
49. Dee-Lite
50. Grimes
51. Missy Eliott
52. Madonna
53. Beyonce
54. Kylie Minogue
Last edited by madzong on Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:29 am, edited 9 times in total.

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby Moonbeam » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:39 am

Very excited for this! One suggestion might be to lower the minimum thresholds for participation. I know we want to have large lists, but I wouldn't want anyone failing to participate because they don't want to list 50 albums or whatever. Maybe I'm being too paranoid.

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Submissions (Until December 31)

Postby DocBrown » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:49 am

BleuPanda wrote:
Jackson wrote:
BleuPanda wrote:My Bloody Valentine (excluded entirely)


5. Portishead


Both of these artists are in somewhat of a gray area for this poll, but why would Portishead (1 of 3 female members) be eligible if My Bloody Valentine (2 of 4 female members) is not?



I guess for me, I see Beth Gibbons as the face of Portishead, but I see Kevin Shields as the face of My Bloody Valentine. Same thing with Yeah Yeah Yeah; it's two guys and a girl, but I always think of Karen O when I think of that band. I guess a big part of it is perception...


The horns of a dilemma...

Can I suggest a Solomonic compromise? Let's be inclusive rather than exclusionary. If you feel that Arcade Fire is greater for the presence of Regine Chassagne and Sarah Neufeld (and having seen them just two weeks ago, I'm not gonna argue if Sarah Neufeld says it's her band) then vote for them. If you feel Portishead can't be included because it's two to one against, then don't. The consensus list will reveal how we collectively feel about the contributions women make in a band setting, and if the go-go's are beat out by the b-52's, so be it.

I would agree with BleuPanda, for example that Portishead is a female-fronted band and MBV is not but I can see the argument for including either, both or none. So why don't you permit votes for any band with a significant female presence and see what happens?

Just my two cents.

I'll also agree with Moonbeam. Allow lists of any length in the interest of participation.

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Submissions (Until December 31)

Postby jamieW » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:13 am

DocBrown wrote:Can I suggest a Solomonic compromise? Let's be inclusive rather than exclusionary. If you feel that Arcade Fire is greater for the presence of Regine Chassagne and Sarah Neufeld (and having seen them just two weeks ago, I'm not gonna argue if Sarah Neufeld says it's her band) then vote for them. If you feel Portishead can't be included because it's two to one against, then don't. The consensus list will reveal how we collectively feel about the contributions women make in a band setting, and if the go-go's are beat out by the b-52's, so be it.


I agree with this completely - I think it should be up to individual interpretation. For example, if someone loves the Pixies specifically because Kim Deal is their favorite bassist of all time, then they're voting for them primarily because of her. Just looking at a few of the artists mentioned, for me personally, I would vote:

Arcade Fire: No
Portishead: Yes
MBV: No
Sonic Youth: Yes
Fleetwood Mac: Yes
The XX: No
Garbage: Yes
ABBA: Yes
Pixies: No

Again, this is only how I would vote personally, and many would disagree. That's why I would prefer we were as liberal as possible with the rules for voting. It might also help highlight female musicians who haven't received enough recognition for the great contributions they've made to their bands.

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby Dexter » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:35 am

We should limit the list to female solo artists and women-fronted bands. Kim Deal was not considered the frontwoman for the Pixies. As to Stevie Nicks, she took lead turns with Lindsey Buckingham and should be given a pass, the same goes to Kate Pierson with The B-52's.

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby Jirin » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:42 am

New Pornographers? X?

Just popped in to complicate your life by bringing up bands with male and female leads with arguably equal contribution. ;)

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby luvulongTIM » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:20 am

How about the lead singer of Against Me?
Image

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby Listyguy » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:25 am

DocBrown wrote:Can I suggest a Solomonic compromise? Let's be inclusive rather than exclusionary. If you feel that Arcade Fire is greater for the presence of Regine Chassagne and Sarah Neufeld (and having seen them just two weeks ago, I'm not gonna argue if Sarah Neufeld says it's her band) then vote for them. If you feel Portishead can't be included because it's two to one against, then don't. The consensus list will reveal how we collectively feel about the contributions women make in a band setting, and if the go-go's are beat out by the b-52's, so be it.

I would agree with BleuPanda, for example that Portishead is a female-fronted band and MBV is not but I can see the argument for including either, both or none. So why don't you permit votes for any band with a significant female presence and see what happens?

Just my two cents.

I'll also agree with Moonbeam. Allow lists of any length in the interest of participation.

I agree with most of this. Policing every possible artist is over the top, in my opinion (and I'm sure BleuPanda would find that overwhelming as well). On the other hand, I'd probably be a little bit irritated if Arcade Fire, for example, ended up as our winner....

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby Moonbeam » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:10 am

Listyguy wrote:
DocBrown wrote:Can I suggest a Solomonic compromise? Let's be inclusive rather than exclusionary. If you feel that Arcade Fire is greater for the presence of Regine Chassagne and Sarah Neufeld (and having seen them just two weeks ago, I'm not gonna argue if Sarah Neufeld says it's her band) then vote for them. If you feel Portishead can't be included because it's two to one against, then don't. The consensus list will reveal how we collectively feel about the contributions women make in a band setting, and if the go-go's are beat out by the b-52's, so be it.

I would agree with BleuPanda, for example that Portishead is a female-fronted band and MBV is not but I can see the argument for including either, both or none. So why don't you permit votes for any band with a significant female presence and see what happens?

Just my two cents.

I'll also agree with Moonbeam. Allow lists of any length in the interest of participation.

I agree with most of this. Policing every possible artist is over the top, in my opinion (and I'm sure BleuPanda would find that overwhelming as well). On the other hand, I'd probably be a little bit irritated if Arcade Fire, for example, ended up as our winner....


I think this will come out in the wash, as DocBrown said. There will be plenty of people who won't include Arcade Fire because they don't think they meet the criteria, and hence their position will reflect that.

Another solution would be to have the artist poll be for women in general, so someone could vote for Annie Lennox, which would take into account her contributions to The Tourists, Eurythmics, and as a solo career.

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby Dexter » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:38 am

Moonbeam wrote:Another solution would be to have the artist poll be for women in general, so someone could vote for Annie Lennox, which would take into account her contributions to The Tourists, Eurythmics, and as a solo career.

I could see that work in the songs poll too by including those only sung by women but how about the album poll?

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby Henry » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:30 am

Albums

1. Carole King - Tapestry
2. Sarah McLachlan - Surfacing
3. Anita Baker - Rapture
4. Cowboy Junkies - Lay It Down
5. Carly Simon - No Secrets
6. Linda Rondstadt - Prisoner In Disguise
7. The Pretenders - Pretenders
8. Madonna - True Blue
9. Celine Dion - Falling Into You
10. Renaissance - Ashes Are Burning
11. Heart - Dreamboat Anne
12. Heart - Heart
13. Aretha Franklin - I Never Loved a Man the Way I Love You
14. Tina Turner - Private Dancer
15. The Supremes - The Supremes Sing Holland-Dozier-Holland
16. Linda Ronstadt - Living In The USA
17. The Cranberries - Bury the Hatchet
18. Aretha Franklin - Young, Gifted and Black
19. PJ Harvey - Let England Shake
20. Alanis Morissette - Jagged Little Pill
21. Janelle Monae - The ArchAndroid
22. Aretha Franklin - Aretha Arrives
23. The Supremes - The Supremes A' Go-Go
24. Adele - 21
25. Joan Armatrading - Joan Armatrading
26. Lana Del Rey - Ultraviolence
27. Sheryl Crow - Tuesday Night Music Club
28. Carole King - Music
29. Janelle Monae - The Electric Lady
30. Sheryl Crow - Sheryl Crow
31. Lady Gaga - Born This Way
32. Tracy Chapman - Tracy Chapman
33. Linda Ronstadt - Simple Dreams
34. Blondie - Parallel Lines
35. Janis Joplin, Big Brother and the Holding Company - Cheap Thrills
36. Sinead O'Connor - I Do Not Want What I Haven't Got
37. Sade - Diamond Life
38. Bette Midler - The Divine Miss M
39. Aretha Franklin - Lady Soul
40. Gloria Estefan - Let It Loose
41. Kelly Clarkson - Stronger
42. Laura Nyro - Eli and the Thirteenth Confession
43. Aretha Franklin - Who's Zoomin' Who
44. Madonna - Like A Virgin
45. Suzanne Vega - Solitude Standing
46. Linda Ronstadt - Heart Like a Wheel
47. The Cranberries - No Need To Argue
48. The Supremes - Where Did Our Love Go?
49. Sinead O'Connor - Faith and Courage
50. Whitney Houston - Whitney

51. Joni Mitchell - Court and Spark
52. The Staple Singers - Be Altitude: Respect Yourself
53. Nancy Wilson - Nancy Wilson/Cannonball Adderley
54. Joni Mitchell - Blue
55. Suzanne Vega - Songs In Red and Gray
56. Madonna - Like a Prayer
57. Aimee Mann - Bachelor No. 2
58. Cynid Lauper - She's So Unusual
59. Bonnie Raitt - Slipstream
60. Laura Nyro - New York Tendaberry
61. Whitney Houston - Whitney Houston
62. Laura Nyro - More Than a New Discovery/The First Songs
63. Carly Simon - Anticipation
64. k.d. Lang - Ingenue
65. Natalie Merchant - Ophelia
66. Sade - Promise
67. Madonna - Ray of Light
68. Pink - Missundaztood
69. Barbra Streisand - Stoney End
70. Pat Benatar - Crimes of Passion
71. Sade - Stronger Than Pride
72. Janet Jackson - All For You
73. Aretha Franklin - Aretha Now
74. Eurythmics - Be Yourself Tonight
75. Beyonce - Beyonce
76. Joni Mitchell - Ladies of the Canyon
77. No Doubt - Rock Steady
78. Eurythmics - Touch
79. Bonnie Raitt - Nick of Time
80. M.I.A. - Kala
81. Ximena Sarifiana - Ximena Sarifiana
82. Barbra Streisand - The Barbra Streisand Album
83. Sarah McLachlan - Fumbling Towards Ecstasy
84. Maire Brennan - Perfect Time
85. Etta James - At Last!
86. Liz Phair - Exile In Guyville
87. Gillian Welch - Time (The Revelator)
88. Amy Winehouse - Back to Black
89. Janet Jackson - Control
90. Janis Joplin - Pearl
91. Kelly Clarkson - Breakaway
92. Aimee Mann - Charmer
93. Lauryn Hill- The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill
94. Erykah Badu - Mama's Gun
95. Neko Case - Middle Cyclone
96. Joan Osborne - Righteous Love
97. Joss Stone - Colour Me Free
98. Britney Spears - Oops!...I Did It Again
99. Tracy Chapman - New Beginning
100. Cowboy Junkies - Miles From Our Home

101. Bjork - Vespertine
102. Cat Power - You Are Free
103. Paloma Faith - Fall To Grace
104. St. Vincent/ Actor
105. Summer, Donna Bad Girls
106. No Doubt Tragic Kingdom
107. Robyn Robyn
108. Dusty Springfield / A Girl Called Dusty/Stay Awhile - I Only Want to Be with You
109. Corinne Bailey Rae Corinne Bailey Rae
110. St. Vincent Marry Me
111. The Corrs / Forgiven Not Forgotten
112. Dusty Springfield Dusty in Memphis
113. Ani DiFranco / Dilate
114. Bjork / Post
115. Gillian Welch Revivial
116. Enya - Watermark
117. Florence and the Machine Lungs
118. Jones, Rickie Lee Rickie Lee Jones
119. Cat Power The Greatest
120. Avril Lavigne Let Go
121. Aimee Mann - Whatever
122. Blondie Eat to the Beat
123. Aretha Franklin - Soul '69
124. Imogen Heap Ellipse
125. Annie Lennox - Diva
126. Bjork Debut
127. PJ Harvey Rid of Me
128. Heather Nova Oyster
129. The Cranberries Everybody Else Is Doing It, So Why Can't We
130. Julia Holter Loud City Song
131. Janet Jackson Rhythm Nation
132. Kate Bush The Kick Inside
133. Bjork Homogenic
Last edited by Henry on Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby veganvalentine » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:54 am

With all this talk of Stevie Nicks and Fleetwood Mac, let's not forget Christine McVie. Surely the fact that two of the three singer/songwriters in the band during their glory years were women makes them eligible. Also, I looked up Sarah Neufeld, and she was only considered a core member of Arcade Fire on Neon Bible and The Suburbs, so it's probably a stretch to consider her the leader of the band.

This list is an excellent idea, and thank you for handling it BleuPanda! No one's mentioned bands like Goldfrapp, Morcheeba, and Blackmore's Night, but they will definitely appear on my list.

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby DocBrown » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:13 am

veganvalentine wrote:I looked up Sarah Neufeld, and she was only considered a core member of Arcade Fire on Neon Bible and The Suburbs, so it's probably a stretch to consider her the leader of the band.


Sorry, I thought the sarcasm was implied. Sarah Neufeld has huge upper body strength; she can tell me whatever she wants. The girl lifts.

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby BleuPanda » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:45 pm

I almost feel the easiest method would be to limit the artist list to singular women (either solo artist or specific members of bands), with perhaps the exception of groups that only contain women. That way, debating the eligibility of a full band is irrelevant; no one would be voting for Arcade Fire, they would be explicitly voting for Regine Chassagne (or Sarah Neufeld).

Alternatively, I as the host can allow either and then combine the two? So, votes for the Pixies and votes for Kim Deal get combined in the end results? The only problem with that is people like Kim Deal; what if someone decides to vote for bands and includes both Pixies and The Breeders?

I also think naming specific women would be more in the spirit of what this represents. One could argue that this adds another step to making a list, but if you're going to be voting for Arcade Fire on a 'Best Women in Music' list, you're probably aware of who the women in that band are.

Would other people agree that the artist list should only include individuals? It pretty much eliminates the need to discuss eligibility in that part of the poll; is the individual being discussed a woman? Then she's eligible. Simple as that.

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby BleuPanda » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:37 pm

And to follow that, the only remaining issue if we use that method is albums (since I think we can agree to lead vocals for songs?). I think with albums we go with what DocBrown suggested. So...

Artists: We vote for individual women, completely bypassing the need to determine the eligibility of a band (and I also like the idea of naming specific women in a project like this). The only issue here is girl groups (bands like The Ronettes would do better than any individual member and clearly deserve consideration), who I think can also be allowed
Songs: Made by a woman or contains a woman on a lead vocal part
Albums: albums containing significant contribution from a woman (that significance determined by each individual)

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby Petri » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:50 pm

BleuPanda wrote:I almost feel the easiest method would be to limit the artist list to singular women (either solo artist or specific members of bands), with perhaps the exception of groups that only contain women. That way, debating the eligibility of a full band is irrelevant; no one would be voting for Arcade Fire, they would be explicitly voting for Regine Chassagne (or Sarah Neufeld).

I agree. It's the the most unambiguous way to do this.

So about songs: Every song with female lead vocalist is eligible? So I can vote for any Massive Attack song sung by a woman (even when the vocalist isn't in the band and her name appears only in the album credits tops)? I'm fine with this.

And what about albums by groups/bands with female vocalist who is lead singer of the band but sings only occasionally. For example House Jam by Gang Gang Dance is eligible I guess but is the album Saint Dymphna or any other album by the group? Or Finally We Are No One by múm?

Seems like you already replied and it sounds great. :)
BleuPanda wrote:And to follow that, the only remaining issue if we use that method is albums (since I think we can agree to lead vocals for songs?). I think with albums we go with what DocBrown suggested. So...

Artists: We vote for individual women, completely bypassing the need to determine the eligibility of a band (and I also like the idea of naming specific women in a project like this). The only issue here is girl groups (bands like The Ronettes would do better than any individual member and clearly deserve consideration), who I think can also be allowed
Songs: Made by a woman or contains a woman on a lead vocal part
Albums: albums containing significant contribution from a woman (that significance determined by each individual)


So anyone thinks Saint Dymphna contains significant contribution from a woman.

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby StevieFan13 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:57 pm

Here's my artist list:

1. Sleater-Kinney
2. Stevie Nicks
3. Nina Simone
4. Tina Turner
5. Madonna
6. Aretha Franklin
7. Beyonce
8. Agnetha Falkstog and Anni-Frid Lyngstad
9. Courtney Barnett
10. Kate Bush
11. Hayley Williams
12. Billie Holiday
13. Miriam Makeba
14. Fiona Apple
15. Missy Elliott
16. Adele
17. M.I.A.
18. Kim Deal
19. Janis Joplin
20. Joni Mitchell
21. Big Mama Thornton
22. Ella Fitzgerald
23. Dolly Parton
24. Celia Cruz
25. Debbie Harry
26. Patti Smith
27. Shania Twain
28. Joan Jett
29. Carole King
30. Laura Nyro
31. Diana Ross
32. Chaka Khan
33. Carly Rae Jepsen
34. Natalie Merchant
35. Chrissy Amphlett
36. Lorde
37. St. Vincent
38. Christine and the Queens
39. Lady Gaga
40. Nancy and Ann Wilson
41. Tina Weymouth
42. Bonnie Raitt
43. Feist
44. Elis Regina
45. Gwen Stefani
46. Kathleen Hanna
47. Florence Welch
48. Wendy and Lisa
49. Kate Nash
50. Sinead O'Connor
51. Norah Jones
52. Judee Sill
53. Christine McVie
54. Sandy Denny
55. Mama Cass
56. Anohni
58. Bjork
59. Linda Jones
60. Kacey Musgraves
61. Eimear Quinn
62. Grimes
63. Shirley Manson
64. Tori Amos
65. Alanis Morissette
66. Taylor Swift
67. Ofra Haza
68. Poly Styrene
69. Diana Damrau
70. Karen Carpenter
71. Laurie Anderson
72. Regina Spektor
73. Emily Haines
74. Amy Winehouse
75. Sutton Foster
76. Marian Anderson
77. Amber Coffman
78. Edith Piaf
79. Kylie Minogue
80. Cat Power
81. Jenny Lewis
82. PJ Harvey
83. Linda Ronstadt
84. Tracy Chapman
85. Carly Simon
86. Paloma Faith
87. Whitney Houston
88. Neneh Cherry
89. Lauryn Hill
90. Cindy Wilson and Kate Pierson
91. Rachel Bloom
92. Justine Frischmann
93. Regine Chassagne
94. Etta James
95. Mariah Carey
96. Erykah Badu
97. Annie Lennox
98. Meg White
99. Salt-N-Pepa
100. Sister Rosetta Tharpe
Last edited by StevieFan13 on Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby Hymie » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:34 pm

StevieFan13 wrote:Here's my artist list:

3. Nina Simone
5. Nina Simone

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby StevieFan13 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:40 pm

Hymie wrote:
StevieFan13 wrote:Here's my artist list:

3. Nina Simone
5. Nina Simone

What Can I say? I like Nina Simone. Will fix.
Music is a world within itself, with a language we all understand - Sir Duke (1976)

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby Bruno » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:45 pm

Henry wrote:Albums
61. George Harrison - The Concert for Bangladesh

?

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby Nassim » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:05 pm

Petri wrote:Or Finally We Are No One by múm?
.


Early múm is pretty much 2 guys and 2 ladies with equal contribution so they should count.
I'm more hesitating for albums by Low (I'd say yes), Yo La Tengo (probably not) and Los Campesinos (yes up to 2012?)

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby Live in Phoenix » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:38 pm

madzong wrote:45. Grimes
46. Bat For Lashes
46. Cat Power
48. St. Vincent
49. Dee-Lite
50. Grimes

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby BleuPanda » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:56 pm

I think an important thing to consider when deciding which albums to include, is 'Would I also rank this album if I were doing a list of my favorite albums by men?' If it is just as easy to answer yes, maybe it doesn't belong here; part of the reason to do a poll on women in the arts is to highlight a group that is generally at a disadvantage. I don't think Arcade Fire is put at a cultural disadvantage by having Regine as a member, because people treat Win Butler, a man, as the face of the band. The reason vocals are such a big factor is because that's the most gendered thing a person will notice when people listen to music. When you listen to any song by Portishead or Yeah Yeah Yeahs, if you're not familiar with the band, you're going to at least be aware that a woman is singing. Vocals really do a lot to shape the perception of the artists behind a work (even in cases like Massive Attack's "Unfinished Sympathy" where the main band consists of men).

I think a simpler question is "when I think of the band who made this album, who do I first think of?" If that person is a man, it probably doesn't belong here.

If we end up including a bunch of bands that could technically qualify because they have women who are generally overshadowed by a leading man, I don't think it's going to do a fair job of representing its purpose. "Even when talking exclusively about women in music, our favorite album is by five men and one woman." That really wouldn't sit well with me.



Edit: To add to my second paragraph, if your answer is something like "I don't think of anyone in particular" and it's a group consisting of both men and women, it also probably doesn't belong; I feel most things that lack an obvious gender are assumed masculine and therefore avoid certain stigmas. You should be actively thinking of a work as representing the voice of a woman for it to qualify.

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby Jirin » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:25 pm

What if I like Neko Case but strongly prefer her NP work to her solo work?

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby BleuPanda » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:50 pm

Jirin wrote:What if I like Neko Case but strongly prefer her NP work to her solo work?



Make a note when you make the list. For the presentation of the artist list, I plan to do something like:

xx. Neko Case (The New Pornographers, solo career)
xx. Karin Dreijer Andersson (The Knife, Fever Ray)

So each artist who isn't just a solo act will have their important associated act(s) listed (which I'll have to check - I actually haven't paid much attention to either artist and had no idea Neko Case was a member of NP)

Either way, since I've decide that we're going to list artists individually, you should consider how you view her work as a whole compared to other artists.

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby Gillingham » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:25 pm

Nassim wrote:
Petri wrote:Or Finally We Are No One by múm?
.


Early múm is pretty much 2 guys and 2 ladies with equal contribution so they should count.
I'm more hesitating for albums by Low (I'd say yes), Yo La Tengo (probably not) and Los Campesinos (yes up to 2012?)

I'm having difficulty deciding about Low as well. It's pretty much the Sparhawk/Parker show (so 50/50 and ellegible), but the third band member, the bass player, has always been male.
Thing is, they are one of may favorite bands period, so they would be very prominently featured in any of my lists, but are they representing 'women in music' enough? For bands, I could just include Parker and for songs (which I won't do) I could pick the songs sung by Parker, but for albums it's more difficult.

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby Henry » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:27 pm

Artists:

1. Carole King
2. Linda Ronstadt
3. The Supremes
4. Pretenders
5. Madonna
6. Fleetwood Mac
7. Sarah McLachlan
8. Aretha Franklin
9. Joni Mitchell
10. Whitney Houston
11. Janelle Monae
12. Anita Baker
13. Heart
14. Blondie
15. Bonnie Raitt
16. Carly Simon
17. Janis Joplin
18. Eurythmics
19. Barbra Streisand
20. Tina Turner
21. Alanis Morissette
22. Cyndi Lauper
23. The Mamas and the Papas
24. Diana Ross
25. Pat Benatar
26. Gladys Knight
27. Cowboy Junkies
28. The Cranberries
29. The Fifth Dimension
30. Cher
31. Sheryl Crow
32. Kelly Clarkson
33. Dionne Warwick
34. Garbage
35. Cheap Trick
36. Donna Summer
37. Janet Jackson
38. Martha and the Vandellas (Martha Reeves)
39. Katy Perry
40. Patsy Cline
41. P!nk
42. Dusty Springfield
43. Laura Nyro
44. Tracy Chapman
45. The Carpenters
46. Celine Dion
47. Lady Gaga
48. Kate Bush
49. Mariah Carey
50. Staple Singers
51. The Pointer Sisters
52. Judy Garland
53. The Shirelles
54. Adele
55. Amy Winehouse
56. Beyonce
57. Shania Twain
58. Sade
59. Sinead O'Connor
60. Lily Allen
61. Ella Fitzgerald
62. The Ronettes
63. Billie Holiday
64. Christina Aguilera
65. ABBA
66. The Marvelettes
67. Colbie Caillat
68. No Doubt
69. Taylor Swift
70. Norah Jones
71. Suzanne Vega
72. Mary Wells
73. Rickie Lee Jones
74. The Tubes
75. Alicia Keys
76. Mary Chapin Carpenter
77. Maire Brennan
78. Jackie DeShannon
79. Joan Armatrading
80. Florence and the Machine
81. Nina Simone
82. Kate Smith
83. The Bangles
84. Gloria Gaynor
85. Dolly Parton
86. Neko Case
87. Lady Antebellum
88. Avril Lavigne
89. Lauryn Hill
90. Kaki King
91. Spice Girls
92. Gwen Stefani
93. Joan Jett and The Blackhearts
94. Etta James
95. Dixie Chicks
96. Jewel
97. Aimee Mann
98. Imogen Heap
99. Cat Power
100. Annie Lennox

101. Robyn
102. KT Tunstall
103. Bette Midler
104. Bobbie Gentry
105. Bonnie Tyler
106. Deniece Williams
107. Doris Day
108. Freda Payne
109. Emmylou Harris
110. Hozier
111. The Ides of March
112. Ike and Tina Turner
113. Janis Ian
114. Lana Del Rey
115. Lucinda Williams
116. Melanie
117. Joss Stone
118. Gillian Welch
119. Crystal Gayle
120. Bananarama
121. Betty Everett
122. Sister Sledge
123. Alison Krauss
124. Betty Wright
125. Renaissance
126. Maria Muldaur
127. Petula Clark
128. Lesley Gore
129. Lena Horne
130. Patti Smith
131. Anita Ward
132. Carla Thomas
133. Chvrches
134. Julie Andrews
135. k.d. Lang
136. Katrina and the Waves
137. Mike & The Mechanics
138. Minnie Riperton
139. Shirley Ellis
140. Tammy Wynette
141. Peggy Lee
142. Thelma Houston
143. Vicky Sue Robinson
144. Indigo Girls
145. Jennifer Warnes
146. Yvonne Elliman
147. Melissa Etheridge
148. Annie
149. Natalie Merchant
150. Erykah Badu
151. Chaka Khan
152. Kim Carnes
153. Sarah Vaughan
154. Little Eva
155. Rufus
156. Anne Murray
157. Judy Collins
158. Barbara Lewis
159. Roberta Flack
160. Jean Knight
161. Lee Ann Womack
162. Tammi Terrell
163. Portishead
164. Britney Spears
165. Sara Bareilles
166. The Andrews Sisters
167. Tegan and Sara
168. Doris Troy
169. Mary Hopkins
170. Bjork
171. M.I.A.
172. Rihanna
173. Dinah Washington
174. Julia Holter
175. Ann Peebles
176. Julie London
177. Honey Cone
178. Miley Cyrus
179. Tori Amos
180. Loretta Lynn
181. Brenda Lee
182. Laura Marling
183. Stevie Nicks
184. Lorde
185. Laura Branigan
186. Mary J. Blige
187. Natalie Maines
188. Missy Elliott
189. Michelle Branch
190. Shirley and Lee
191. Swing Out Sister
192. Mercy
193. Aaliyah
194. Wilson Phillips
195. Olivia Newton John
196. Carly Rae Jepsen
197. Neneh Cherry
198. Edie Brickell
199. Quarterflash
200. Michelle Shocked

201. Nicki Minaj
202. The Paris Sisters
203. Vicky Lawrence
204. The Chordettes
205. Joan Baez
206. Faith Hill
207. Belinda Carlisle
208. Shirley Bassey
209. Elizabeth Cotton
210. Irene Cara
211. Liz Phair
212. Debby Boone
213. Bessie Smith
214. Evelyn "Champagne" King
215. Patti Page
216. Willie Mae "Big Mama" Thornton
217. Nena
218. Sheila E.
219. Fiona Apple
220. Nelly Furtado
221. Shelley Fabares
222. Little Peggy March
223. Merrilee Rush
224. Lynn Anderson
225. Toni Braxton
226. Sheena Easton
227. Lisa Loeb & Nine Stories
228. Barbara Lynn
229. LeAnn Rimes
230. Juliana Hatfield Three
231. Jeannie C. Riley
232. Helen Reddy
233. Mama Cass
234. Taylor Dane
235. Sixpence None the Richer
236. Connie Francis
237. Beth Orton
238. Shirley and Co.
239. Natalie Imbruglia
240. Darlene Love

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby jamieW » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:41 pm

I love the idea of listing the women from male/female groups individually. I'll do this for artists like Kim Deal, as well as the female lead singers in predominantly male bands. For solo artists who were also a part of an all-female group, I'll look at them on a case-by-case basis. (For example, I'll probably just list "The Supremes," since I prefer the entire trio to Diana's solo work, while I'll probably include Stevie Nicks' FM and solo stuff together under her name.)

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby madzong » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:30 am

Live in Phoenix wrote:
madzong wrote:45. Grimes
46. Bat For Lashes
46. Cat Power
48. St. Vincent
49. Dee-Lite
50. Grimes


Fixed!

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby DaveC » Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:42 am

I intend to consider the likes of Beth Gibbons & Mimi Parker for the artists poll, but will exclude Portishead and Low from the Albums and Songs lists. These bands would take quite a few high positions in those lists, while there are plenty of female/female dominated bands that are well worth a mention anyway. Furthermore, there are plenty of other polls where I can support Portishead & Low & Massive Attack (who I thought were a bit hard done by in our albums poll) without taking any spotlight away from female artists.

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Re: Women in Music All-Time Lists - Planning (submissions begin November 1)

Postby Live in Phoenix » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:39 am

I would think that in a women's song poll, while the majority of entrants would feature notable female musicians, any song with a primary or sole female vocal would count. "The Great Gig in the Sky" (Clare Torry won a co-writer credit), "When It's Cold I'd Like to Die," The Clash's "Lose This Skin" if you were so inclined, whatever. Songs that might seem unthinkable if you threw a dude in the vocal booth instead. I wouldn't think that determining the artistic helm would matter so much. (I could call this the Johnny Cash "The Wanderer" principle, as I think of that as a Johnny Cash song despite his vocals being his only input.) Well, I feel like we'd be breaking this down into unrecognizable parts if I'm not supposed to think of a woman when I hear a woman singing her own lyrics in Portishead.


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