Overlooked Songs 2 planning

[BleuPanda]

So, I want to do Overlooked songs again; in the months since, many of the songs from the last tournament have grown on me, including ones I never voted for when it was going on (Marcia Baila, Needle in the Camel's Eye, etc.). I don't think anything else has helped me discover new favorites like this. I have a few ideas going on about how to run it and would like some input. I have a few questions below and my reasoning behind asking them.


1. Should I wait for the next site update?

The next site update is supposed to expand the songs list to 10000 (unless I missed a change in plans); I would like to have that expanded selection of songs available, but I also don't want to wait if it will be too long. I think the last we heard was sometime in August at the earliest, but I also could have missed Henrik's latest update (I feel like this is more of a Henrik-specific question).

1a. If I do wait, how should the bracket be divided?

With 10000 songs, I will need to adjust the bracket divisions. Here's what I figure:
Division 1: #1001-3000
Division 2: #3001-6000
Division 3: #6001-10000
Division 4: bubblers, unacclaimed singles, and other songs off acclaimed albums

We could also have more divisions:
Division 1: #1001-2000
Division 2: #2001-3000
Division 3: #3001-4000
Division 4: #4001-6000
Division 5: #6001-8000
Division 6: #8001-10000
Division 7: Bubblers
Division 8: Unacclaimed songs off acclaimed albums

I don't know how many 'bubblers' will be listed on the site after the next update, though (I figure many will enter that 10000 range).

2. How many songs should this feature?

Since the main purpose of this to me is to have a way of discovering new songs, I would like to maybe bump this up to 256 instead of 128. It would take longer but I like the idea of having more space.

3. How should seeding be decided?

Last time around, I based seeding off rank on acclaimed music (so song number 1001 would face off against 2000, 1002 against 1999, etc.). This time, I was considering simply ordering each division by year. Thus, the two oldest songs in a division will face off, and so on. I think it could be nice to have an even mix of eras through the tourney, but I think both work.

4. Should we allow songs that were featured in our most recent top 1000 forum poll?

Last time I excluded these, but that made the nomination process harder (people had to doublecheck both the acclaimed music list and our forum poll for every song). I figure it could be nice to include them this time, especially since this tournament would be leading us back into the next forum song poll. Since a lot of songs made the all-time song list due to a handful of really enthusiastic fans, I think it would be nice to let these songs have added exposure. Thus, the only songs ranked below #1000 on acclaimed music that would be banned from the tourney would be those featured in the previous Overlooked Songs.

[StevieFan13]

I dunno, I just want to volunteer songs I like that people don't know about. I'm not good with technicalities.

[babydoll]

Can I still say I'm shocked that Dusty Springfield's "The Windmills of Your Mind" made it all the way to the finals? It's well-deserved...

[Madzong]

I dunno, I just want to volunteer songs I like that people don't know about. I'm not good with technicalities.

Same!

[Rob]

2. How many songs should this feature?

Since the main purpose of this to me is to have a way of discovering new songs, I would like to maybe bump this up to 256 instead of 128. It would take longer but I like the idea of having more space.

The thing is, with these polls you see a lack of interest growing over time. I'd love to do 256 songs, but I think 128 keeps the pace up. Besides, we can make this a yearly thing, so songs that miss out one time can be selected the next year.

3. How should seeding be decided?

Last time around, I based seeding off rank on acclaimed music (so song number 1001 would face off against 2000, 1002 against 1999, etc.). This time, I was considering simply ordering each division by year. Thus, the two oldest songs in a division will face off, and so on. I think it could be nice to have an even mix of eras through the tourney, but I think both work.

Rankings feels more natural to me.

4. Should we allow songs that were featured in our most recent top 1000 forum poll?

Last time I excluded these, but that made the nomination process harder (people had to doublecheck both the acclaimed music list and our forum poll for every song). I figure it could be nice to include them this time, especially since this tournament would be leading us back into the next forum song poll. Since a lot of songs made the all-time song list due to a handful of really enthusiastic fans, I think it would be nice to let these songs have added exposure. Thus, the only songs ranked below #1000 on acclaimed music that would be banned from the tourney would be those featured in the previous Overlooked Songs.

A case can be made for or against this, but I don't mind allowing these songs. The song poll is two years ago already.

Also, I would wait until the next update, unless that ends up taking longer than expected. Wait until the end of the Summer and see how far along the update is?

[BleuPanda]

While I wait for other's takes, I decided to share the songs from the last tourney that placed in my last all-time song ranking. I have put the songs that I either didn't know or view as highly before the tournament in bold, to highlight what the tournament introduced me to.

23. Foals - Spanish Sahara
69. Bikini Kill - Rebel Girl
99. Brian Eno - Needles in the Camel's Eye
103. Le Tigre - Deceptacon
120. The Sundays - Here's Where the Story Ends
189. Mercury Rev - Holes
246. The Horrors - Still Life
253. Mogwai - 2 Rights Make 1 Wrong
379. Les Rita Mitsouko - Marcia Baila
408. Van Morrison - Sweet Thing
482. Suicide - Ghost Rider
528. Refused - New Noise
666. Leonard Cohen - So Long, Marianne
696. Air - All I Need
703. Mos Def - Ms. Fat Booty
735. Mobb Deep - Shook Ones, Part 2
744. Metallica - Master of Puppets
753. Henry Mancini - Moon River
786. Tom Waits - In the Neighborhood
849. Air France - Collapsing At Your Doorstep
871. Pixies - Velouria
894. blur - Coffee and TV
897. Boards of Canada - In a Beautiful Place Out in the Country
904. Spoon - Do You
920. Nine Inch Nails - Head Like a Hole
928. First Aid Kit - Emmylou
977. LCD Soundsystem - Home
1005. Fiona Apple - Criminal
1019. The Roots - You Got Me
1061. Manic Street Preachers - If You Tolerate This Your Children Will Be Next
1069. Todd Terje - Delorean Dynamite
1079. Michael Jackson - Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'
1089. Autre ne veut - Play by Play
1129. Nine Inch Nails - Hurt
1168. Of Montreal - Heimdalsgate Like a Promethean Curse
1219. Daniel Johnston - Some Things Last a Long Time
1232. Erykah Badu - Window Seat
1263. Super Furry Animals - Juxtaposed With You
1302. Oasis - Champagne Supernova
1313. Bat for Lashes - Laura
1330. Sonic Youth - Death Valley '69
1390. Blonde Redhead - 23
1464. The Go-Betweens - Streets of Your Town
1501. Pet Shop Boys - Left to My Own Devices
1539. Sade - Smooth Operator
1546. Missy Elliott - Pass That Dutch


This will be a hard bunch to beat, but I'm excited for more new favorites.

[StevieFan13]

Hope I don't accidentally submit a song that's already been featured.

[Sweepstakes Ron]

Hope I don't accidentally submit a song that's already been featured.

Don't worry: submissions are public, so if you make a mistake, someone will catch it.

[StevieFan13]

Hope I don't accidentally submit a song that's already been featured.

Don't worry: submissions are public, so if you make a mistake, someone will catch it.

I already see Criminal and Shook Ones, so those two are already out for me (also, to qualify does a song need to be outside the Am top 1000 or just the top 500?)

[BleuPanda]

Hope I don't accidentally submit a song that's already been featured.

Don't worry: submissions are public, so if you make a mistake, someone will catch it.

I already see Criminal and Shook Ones, so those two are already out for me (also, to qualify does a song need to be outside the Am top 1000 or just the top 500?)

It will be outside the top 1000, and I'll have the full rules once the actual nomination topic goes up. The only thing not eligible are songs inside the top 1000 and songs featured in the previous tourney (I'll list those in the topic in some way).

[StevieFan13]

Don't worry: submissions are public, so if you make a mistake, someone will catch it.

I already see Criminal and Shook Ones, so those two are already out for me (also, to qualify does a song need to be outside the Am top 1000 or just the top 500?)

It will be outside the top 1000, and I'll have the full rules once the actual nomination topic goes up. The only thing not eligible are songs inside the top 1000 and songs featured in the previous tourney (I'll list those in the topic in some way).

Great! So ready to introduce more people to Screenwriters Blues and Jenny Says.

[babydoll]

23. Foals - Spanish Sahara
69. Bikini Kill - Rebel Girl
99. Brian Eno - Needles in the Camel's Eye
103. Le Tigre - Deceptacon
120. The Sundays - Here's Where the Story Ends
189. Mercury Rev - Holes
246. The Horrors - Still Life
253. Mogwai - 2 Rights Make 1 Wrong
379. Les Rita Mitsouko - Marcia Baila
408. Van Morrison - Sweet Thing
482. Suicide - Ghost Rider
528. Refused - New Noise
666. Leonard Cohen - So Long, Marianne
696. Air - All I Need
703. Mos Def - Ms. Fat Booty
735. Mobb Deep - Shook Ones, Part 2
744. Metallica - Master of Puppets
753. Henry Mancini - Moon River
786. Tom Waits - In the Neighborhood
849. Air France - Collapsing At Your Doorstep
871. Pixies - Velouria
894. blur - Coffee and TV
897. Boards of Canada - In a Beautiful Place Out in the Country
904. Spoon - Do You
920. Nine Inch Nails - Head Like a Hole
928. First Aid Kit - Emmylou
977. LCD Soundsystem - Home
1005. Fiona Apple - Criminal
1019. The Roots - You Got Me
1061. Manic Street Preachers - If You Tolerate This Your Children Will Be Next
1069. Todd Terje - Delorean Dynamite
1079. Michael Jackson - Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'
1089. Autre ne veut - Play by Play
1129. Nine Inch Nails - Hurt
1168. Of Montreal - Heimdalsgate Like a Promethean Curse
1219. Daniel Johnston - Some Things Last a Long Time
1232. Erykah Badu - Window Seat
1263. Super Furry Animals - Juxtaposed With You
1302. Oasis - Champagne Supernova
1313. Bat for Lashes - Laura
1330. Sonic Youth - Death Valley '69
1390. Blonde Redhead - 23
1464. The Go-Betweens - Streets of Your Town
1501. Pet Shop Boys - Left to My Own Devices
1539. Sade - Smooth Operator
1546. Missy Elliott - Pass That Dutch

None of my nominations from last year made it. That is disappointing.

[BleuPanda]

So, I'm leaning toward the same as last time; 128 seeds, sorted by rank on acclaimed music, with the divisions adjusted for whatever size the site is after the next update. I also want to consider what to do about Best of the B-Sides, but that will probably warrant its own topic (which I'll mention in the final results).

[Neil]

How about songs that are not even featured in the top 6000? I have not read the rules yet but, please forgive me. There are so many songs that are not even in the top tier although, I feel, they should be. I guess that's what this is all about. It is for those powers that be, to decide what could possibly stand a chance? ha ha I have no issue listening to new stuff, or even old stuff that may have slipped by. There is a lot that has slipped by. How could one person listen to every song that was ever conceived?

We all have our own inclinations and favorites and can be pretty rigiid about our tastes. This is a good exercise to discover new music. I hope it goes well.

[Rob]

How about songs that are not even featured in the top 6000?

You mean unacclaimed songs? They have a separate poll. Or do you mean bubblers? They are included here. As are unacclaimed songs from acclaimed albums.