Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

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ordinaryperson
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Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by ordinaryperson »

Vote for your favorite out of each of the match ups. Voting for this week will end on the 29th of April at 7:00pm EST.

Image

Brackets:
Albums
Songs

Albums
Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back vs. Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly
OutKast - Stankonia vs. Drake - Take Care
De La Soul - 3 Feet High and Rising vs. Beastie Boys - Paul’s Boutique
Wu-Tang Clan - Enter the Wu Tang (36 Chambers) vs. Kendrick Lamar - Section.80

Songs
N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton vs. 2pac - Dear Mama
Dr. Dre - Nuthin But a ‘G’ Thang vs. UGK - Int'l Players Anthem (I Choose You)
Jay Z - Empire State of Mind vs. Mobb Deep - Survival of the Fittest
Jay Z - 99 Problems vs. MC Solaar - Le Nouveau Western
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five - The Message vs. Kanye West - Gone
Beastie Boys - Sabotage vs. Public Enemy - Bring the Noise
Public Enemy - Fight the Power vs. LL Cool J - I Need Love
Afrika Bambaataa & The Soul Sonic Force - Planet Rock vs. Missy Elliott - Get Ur Freak On

There is No More Firmament.
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by andyd1010 »

Albums
Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back vs. Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly
OutKast - Stankonia vs. Drake - Take Care
De La Soul - 3 Feet High and Rising vs. Beastie Boys - Paul’s Boutique
Wu-Tang Clan - Enter the Wu Tang (36 Chambers) vs. Kendrick Lamar - Section.80

Songs
N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton vs. 2pac - Dear Mama
Dr. Dre - Nuthin But a ‘G’ Thang vs. UGK - Int'l Players Anthem (I Choose You)
Jay Z - Empire State of Mind vs. Mobb Deep - Survival of the Fittest
Jay Z - 99 Problems vs. MC Solaar - Le Nouveau Western
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five - The Message vs. Kanye West - Gone
Brutal first-round matchup. Gone is probably my 2nd-favorite Kanye song.

Beastie Boys - Sabotage vs. Public Enemy - Bring the Noise
Public Enemy - Fight the Power vs. LL Cool J - I Need Love
Afrika Bambaataa & The Soul Sonic Force - Planet Rock vs. Missy Elliott - Get Ur Freak On
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by slick »

Albums
Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back
OutKast - Stankonia
De La Soul - 3 Feet High and Rising
Wu-Tang Clan - Enter the Wu Tang (36 Chambers)

Songs
N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton
Dr. Dre - Nuthin But a ‘G’ Thang
Mobb Deep - Survival of the Fittest
Jay Z - 99 Problems
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five - The Message
Beastie Boys - Sabotage
Public Enemy - Fight the Power
Afrika Bambaataa & The Soul Sonic Force - Planet Rock
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by bootsy »

Albums
Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back
OutKast - Stankonia
De La Soul - 3 Feet High and Rising
Wu-Tang Clan - Enter the Wu Tang (36 Chambers)

Songs
N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton ( a tough choice)
Dr. Dre - Nuthin But a ‘G’ Thang
Jay Z - Empire State of Mind (get this Survival of the Fittest crap outta here)
Jay Z - 99 Problems
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five - The Message
Beastie Boys - Sabotage
Public Enemy - Fight the Powe
Afrika Bambaataa & The Soul Sonic Force - Planet Rock
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by jamieW »

Albums
Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back
OutKast - Stankonia
Beastie Boys - Paul’s Boutique
Wu-Tang Clan - Enter the Wu Tang (36 Chambers)

Favorite album I couldn't vote for: Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly (Easily my second favorite of the week. In fact, when I looked at my album ratings, I actually had Kendrick rated higher. But I'm going by emotion - as much as I love "TPAB," I just can't vote against PE here.

Songs
N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton
Dr. Dre - Nuthin But a ‘G’ Thang
Mobb Deep - Survival of the Fittest
MC Solaar - Le Nouveau Western
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five - The Message
Public Enemy - Bring the Noise
Public Enemy - Fight the Power
Afrika Bambaataa & The Soul Sonic Force - Planet Rock

Favorite song I couldn't vote for: Beastie Boys - Sabotage
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by StevieFan13 »

Albums
Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back\
OutKast - Stankonia
Beastie Boys - Paul’s Boutique
Wu-Tang Clan - Enter the Wu Tang (36 Chambers)

Songs
2pac - Dear Mama
Dr. Dre - Nuthin But a ‘G’ Thang
Jay Z - Empire State of Mind
Jay Z - 99 Problems vs. MC Solaar - Le Nouveau Western
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five - The Message
Beastie Boys - Sabotage
Public Enemy - Fight the Power
Missy Elliott - Get Ur Freak On
Music is a world within itself, with a language we all understand - Sir Duke (1976)
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by EmilienDelRey »

bootsy wrote:get this Survival of the Fittest crap outta here
...


SONGS
2. N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton
vs.
7. 2pac - Dear Mama

5. Dr. Dre - Nuthin But a ‘G’ Thang
vs.
4. UGK - Int'l Players Anthem (I Choose You)

8. Jay Z - Empire State of Mind
vs.
1. Mobb Deep - Survival of the Fittest

15. Jay Z - 99 Problems
vs.
13. MC Solaar - Le Nouveau Western

3. Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five - The Message
vs.
11. Kanye West - Gone

14. Beastie Boys - Sabotage
vs.
9. Public Enemy - Bring the Noise

6. Public Enemy - Fight the Power
vs.
10. LL Cool J - I Need Love

12. Afrika Bambaataa & The Soul Sonic Force - Planet Rock
vs.
16. Missy Elliott - Get Ur Freak On
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by Bang Jan »

Albums
Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly
OutKast - Stankonia
Beastie Boys - Paul’s Boutique
Wu-Tang Clan - Enter the Wu Tang (36 Chambers)

Songs
N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton
UGK - Int'l Players Anthem (I Choose You)
Jay Z - Empire State of Mind
Jay Z - 99 Problems
Kanye West - Gone
Beastie Boys - Sabotage
Public Enemy - Fight the Power
Afrika Bambaataa & The Soul Sonic Force - Planet Rock
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by antonius »

Albums
Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back
OutKast - Stankonia
De La Soul - 3 Feet High and Rising
Wu-Tang Clan - Enter the Wu Tang (36 Chambers)

Songs
N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton
Dr. Dre - Nuthin But a ‘G’ Thang
Jay Z - Empire State of Mind
MC Solaar - Le Nouveau Western
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five - The Message
Public Enemy - Bring the Noise
Public Enemy - Fight the Power
Missy Elliott - Get Ur Freak On
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by bootsy »

EmilienDelRey wrote:
bootsy wrote:get this Survival of the Fittest crap outta here
...
Image
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by Rocky Raccoon »

Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back (Still not sure how the seeding worked to pit these two albums against each other so soon)
OutKast - Stankonia
De La Soul - 3 Feet High and Rising
Wu-Tang Clan - Enter the Wu Tang (36 Chambers)

Songs
N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton
Dr. Dre - Nuthin But a ‘G’ Thang
Jay Z - Empire State of Mind
Jay Z - 99 Problems
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five - The Message
Beastie Boys - Sabotage
Public Enemy - Fight the Power
Missy Elliott - Get Ur Freak On
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by acroamor »

Albums
Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back
OutKast - Stankonia
De La Soul - 3 Feet High and Rising
Wu-Tang Clan - Enter the Wu Tang (36 Chambers)

Songs
N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton
UGK - Int'l Players Anthem (I Choose You)
Jay Z - Empire State of Mind
Jay Z - 99 Problems
Kanye West - Gone
Beastie Boys - Sabotage
Public Enemy - Fight the Power
Missy Elliott - Get Ur Freak On

Nuthin But a G Thang versus International Player's Anthem was brutally difficult, two pinnacles of hip-hop. I decided to go with regional bias in the end.
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by Honorio »



2. Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back
vs.
3. Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly

4. OutKast – Stankonia
vs.
8. Drake - Take Care

1. De La Soul - 3 Feet High and Rising
vs.
5. Beastie Boys - Paul’s Boutique

6. Wu-Tang Clan - Enter the Wu Tang (36 Chambers)
vs.
7. Kendrick Lamar - Section.80




8. N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton
vs.
15. 2Pac - Dear Mama

11. Dr. Dre feat. Snoopy Doggy Dogg- Nuthin But a ‘G’ Thang
vs.
10. UGK feat. Outkast - Int'l Players Anthem (I Choose You)

3. Jay Z feat. Alicia Keys - Empire State of Mind
vs.
14. Mobb Deep - Survival of the Fittest

12. Jay Z - 99 Problems
vs.
6. MC Solaar - Le Nouveau Western

4. Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five feat. Melle Mel & Duke Bootee - The Message
vs.
13. Kanye West feat. Cam'ron & Consequence - Gone

2. Beastie Boys – Sabotage
vs.
5. Public Enemy - Bring the Noise

1. Public Enemy - Fight the Power
vs.
16. LL Cool J - I Need Love

9. Afrika Bambaataa & The Soul Sonic Force - Planet Rock
vs.
7. Missy Elliott - Get Ur Freak On

Studio version of "Le Nouveau Western"
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by jimmyj »

Albums
Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back
OutKast - Stankonia
Beastie Boys - Paul’s Boutique
Wu-Tang Clan - Enter the Wu Tang (36 Chambers)

Songs
N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton
Dr. Dre - Nuthin But a ‘G’ Thang
Jay Z - Empire State of Mind
Jay Z - 99 Problems
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five - The Message
Public Enemy - Bring the Noise
Public Enemy - Fight the Power
Afrika Bambaataa & The Soul Sonic Force - Planet Rock
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by Nassim »

Albums
Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly
2 albums whose acclaim I really understand (they're both huge cultural landmarks with real artistic accomplishment and forward thinking music) but don't enjoy listening at all. TPaB has i and The Blacker the Berry though, so here goes my vote.
OutKast - Stankonia
Beastie Boys - Paul’s Boutique
Need to listen to section.80

Songs
pass
UGK - Int'l Players Anthem (I Choose You)
Mobb Deep - Survival of the Fittest
MC Solaar - Le Nouveau Western
Kanye West - Gone
Beastie Boys - Sabotage
Public Enemy - Fight the Power
Missy Elliott - Get Ur Freak On

"I Need Love" hasn't aged very well imo but the rest goes from good to great.
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by Neil »

Albums
Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back
OutKast - Stankonia
De La Soul - 3 Feet High and Rising
Wu-Tang Clan - Enter the Wu Tang (36 Chambers)

Songs
N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton
UGK - Int'l Players Anthem (I Choose You)
Jay Z - Empire State of Mind
Jay Z - 99 Problems
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five - The Message
Beastie Boys - Sabotage
Public Enemy - Fight the Power
Afrika Bambaataa & The Soul Sonic Force - Planet Rock
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by IllumiThottie »

Albums

It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back by Public Enemy
Stankonia by OutKast
3 Feet High and Rising by De La Soul
Enter the Wu Tang (36 Chambers) by the Wu-Tang Clan

Songs

Straight Outta Compton by N.W.A.
Nuthin But a ‘G’ Thang by Dr. Dre
Survival of the Fittest by Mobb Deep
Le Nouveau Western by MC Solaar
The Message by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five
Bring the Noise by Public Enemy
Fight the Power by Public Enemy
Get Ur Freak On by Missy Elliott
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by EmilienDelRey »

4. Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back vs. 2. Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly
7. OutKast - Stankonia vs. 8. Drake - Take Care
1. De La Soul - 3 Feet High and Rising vs. 5. Beastie Boys - Paul’s Boutique
3. Wu-Tang Clan - Enter the Wu Tang (36 Chambers) vs. 6. Kendrick Lamar - Section.80
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by spiritualized »

Albums
Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back (4.0) vs. Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly (4.0)
REALLY enjoyed listening to TPaB for the first time. It takes the biscuit over an album which is showing its age. Besides, I am getting slightly annoyed by the seemingly constant trill noise on PE's album.

OutKast - Stankonia (2.5) vs. Drake - Take Care (1.5)
Meh.

De La Soul - 3 Feet High and Rising (4.0) vs. Beastie Boys - Paul’s Boutique (4.0)
PASS

Wu-Tang Clan - Enter the Wu Tang (36 Chambers) (3.5) vs. Kendrick Lamar - Section.80 (2.0)

Songs

N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton (3.5) vs. 2pac - Dear Mama (2.0)
Dr. Dre - Nuthin But a ‘G’ Thang (3.5) vs. UGK - Int'l Players Anthem (I Choose You) (2.5)
Jay Z - Empire State of Mind (3.0) vs. Mobb Deep - Survival of the Fittest (4.0)
Jay Z - 99 Problems (3.5) vs. MC Solaar - Le Nouveau Western (5.0)
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five - The Message (3.0) vs. Kanye West - Gone (3.5)
Beastie Boys - Sabotage (4.5) vs. Public Enemy - Bring the Noise (3.5)
Public Enemy - Fight the Power (4.0) vs. LL Cool J - I Need Love (2.0)
Afrika Bambaataa & The Soul Sonic Force - Planet Rock (3.5) vs. Missy Elliott - Get Ur Freak On (5.0)
Last edited by spiritualized on Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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andyd1010
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by andyd1010 »

Nassim wrote:Albums
Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly
2 albums whose acclaim I really understand (they're both huge cultural landmarks with real artistic accomplishment and forward thinking music) but don't enjoy listening at all. TPaB has i and The Blacker the Berry though, so here goes my vote.
I agree with that about It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back. To those who voted for it, I'm curious, do you really enjoy listening to it and think it's great music? I find Public Enemy very hard to listen to in general. It just doesn't strike me as musical. Most hip hop isn't particularly melodic, but a lot of the great artists still weave melodic lines into their beats or choruses (this is especially why I think Kanye is such a great artist). Public Enemy almost never does that. A lot of people respect them for their use of samples too, but I find that most of the time they create a cluttered, noisy background that just sounds like a mess to me.
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by spiritualized »

Mmmm on another note, I urge the voters for the Jay z-MC Solaar matchup who based their vote on the Spotify version to reconsider and re-listen to the YT link. The studio version is miles ahead of the live version.
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by notbrianeno »

Albums
Public Enemy | It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back vs. Kendrick Lamar | To Pimp a Butterfly
OutKast | Stankonia vs. Drake | Take Care
De La Soul | 3 Feet High and Rising vs. Beastie Boys | Paul’s Boutique
Wu-Tang Clan | Enter the Wu Tang (36 Chambers) vs. Kendrick Lamar | Section.80

Songs
N.W.A. | Straight Outta Compton vs. 2pac | Dear Mama
Dr. Dre | Nuthin But a ‘G’ Thang vs. UGK | Int'l Players Anthem (I Choose You)
Jay Z | Empire State of Mind vs. Mobb Deep | Survival of the Fittest
Jay Z | 99 Problems vs. MC Solaar | Le Nouveau Western
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five | The Message vs. Kanye West | Gone
Beastie Boys | Sabotage vs. Public Enemy | Bring the Noise
Public Enemy | Fight the Power vs. LL Cool J | I Need Love
Afrika Bambaataa & The Soul Sonic Force | Planet Rock vs. Missy Elliott | Get Ur Freak On
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by jamieW »

andyd1010 wrote:
Nassim wrote:Albums
Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly
2 albums whose acclaim I really understand (they're both huge cultural landmarks with real artistic accomplishment and forward thinking music) but don't enjoy listening at all. TPaB has i and The Blacker the Berry though, so here goes my vote.
I agree with that about It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back. To those who voted for it, I'm curious, do you really enjoy listening to it and think it's great music? I find Public Enemy very hard to listen to in general. It just doesn't strike me as musical. Most hip hop isn't particularly melodic, but a lot of the great artists still weave melodic lines into their beats or choruses (this is especially why I think Kanye is such a great artist). Public Enemy almost never does that. A lot of people respect them for their use of samples too, but I find that most of the time they create a cluttered, noisy background that just sounds like a mess to me.
I think much of it may have to do with age. I can't begin to explain how unique and powerful "Millions" sounded when it first came out - like an explosive, social and political punch in the gut. I still think it sounds great all these years later, and so many of the topics are equally (if not even more) relevant today. (For example, "She Watch Channel Zero?!" was before the pathetic reality TV boom - which, incidentally, helped create our current political environment.) To put things mildly, PE were pioneers. This may not help you enjoy their music any more, but hopefully it explains the massive effect they've had on music (and people like me).
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by PlasticRam »

Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back vs. Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly

N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton vs. 2pac - Dear Mama
Beastie Boys - Sabotage vs. Public Enemy - Bring the Noise

For me I like 'It Takes a Nation of Millions' precisely cos it does some weird shit where it's like they're trying to make it so that it's not easy to listen to. And it still sounds dope.
I feel like that
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by StevieFan13 »

PlasticRam wrote:
For me I like 'It Takes a Nation of Millions' precisely cos it does some weird shit where it's like they're trying to make it so that it's not easy to listen to. And it still sounds dope.
I agree.
Music is a world within itself, with a language we all understand - Sir Duke (1976)
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by Rocky Raccoon »

jamieW wrote:
andyd1010 wrote:
Nassim wrote:Albums
Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly
2 albums whose acclaim I really understand (they're both huge cultural landmarks with real artistic accomplishment and forward thinking music) but don't enjoy listening at all. TPaB has i and The Blacker the Berry though, so here goes my vote.
I agree with that about It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back. To those who voted for it, I'm curious, do you really enjoy listening to it and think it's great music? I find Public Enemy very hard to listen to in general. It just doesn't strike me as musical. Most hip hop isn't particularly melodic, but a lot of the great artists still weave melodic lines into their beats or choruses (this is especially why I think Kanye is such a great artist). Public Enemy almost never does that. A lot of people respect them for their use of samples too, but I find that most of the time they create a cluttered, noisy background that just sounds like a mess to me.
I think much of it may have to do with age. I can't begin to explain how unique and powerful "Millions" sounded when it first came out - like an explosive, social and political punch in the gut. I still think it sounds great all these years later, and so many of the topics are equally (if not even more) relevant today. (For example, "She Watch Channel Zero?!" was before the pathetic reality TV boom - which, incidentally, helped create our current political environment.) To put things mildly, PE were pioneers. This may not help you enjoy their music any more, but hopefully it explains the massive effect they've had on music (and people like me).
I'll second JamieW. I still remember the first time I heard the album. It was 27 years ago, a couple of years after it came out, and I was chopping wood. I had my boom box (look it up if you don't know) outside with me to pass the time listening to music. I put in this tape a friend lent me. I had seen it ranked in Rolling Stone's albums of the '80s, so I was curious. My mind was absolutely blown. The sonic barrage paired with Chuck D's hard delivery is perfect (he also had lots to say), and Flavor Flav is a great comic sidekick. Nothing sounded like it before, and very little has come close since.
What I really enjoyed on the album was the diversity, something there wasn't a lot of in rap music back then. If it was just "Bring the Noise" over and over again, it wouldn't have had the same effect. But it's all over the map, from the great guitar riff, booming beats, and killer scratch effects of "She Watch Channel Zero?!" to the eerie sonic atmosphere of the jailbreak drama "Black Steel in the Hour of Chaos" to the funky fun of "Don't Believe the Hype." And that's just scratching the surface.
So, yeah, I do really enjoy listening to it, and I do think it's great music.
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by andyd1010 »

Rocky Raccoon wrote: So, yeah, I do really enjoy listening to it, and I do think it's great music.
Sorry, my question you're retorting to there was ill-advised. It probably sounded ridiculous to you, especially about such a highly acclaimed album. It came out before I was born, and I have never met anyone who (to my knowledge) was a big fan of Public Enemy or this album. Plenty of my friends are into old-school hip hop, but that mostly means 2pac, Biggie, Jay-Z, Nas, Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg. Since it never registered with anyone in my life, and I didn't appreciate it when I listened through it, I wondered if people were just voting for it out of some sense of obligation due to its status and impact...You have demonstrated otherwise.

There are a few other "classic" albums I feel similarly about, where I don't connect at all with the music, and it makes me wonder how much other factors like impact have swayed people's opinions...I'll try to find more polite ways to delve into that next time.
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by jamieW »

andyd1010 wrote:Since it never registered with anyone in my life, and I didn't appreciate it when I listened through it, I wondered if people were just voting for it out of some sense of obligation due to its status and impact...You have demonstrated otherwise.
Hopefully, this isn't a reference to me stating I had Kendrick ranked higher, but couldn't vote against PE. The reason I voted for them is because I threw my silly ratings to the side and voted for the album I enjoy the most. I would never vote for something out of a sense of "obligation," since there are many, many masterpieces that don't resonate with me. (Just for one example, I'm certainly not going to vote for "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" in the 2002 poll because of its status and impact. I respect it, and like parts of it, but overall it's not for me.)
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by andyd1010 »

jamieW wrote:
andyd1010 wrote:Since it never registered with anyone in my life, and I didn't appreciate it when I listened through it, I wondered if people were just voting for it out of some sense of obligation due to its status and impact...You have demonstrated otherwise.
Hopefully, this isn't a reference to me stating I had Kendrick ranked higher, but couldn't vote against PE. The reason I voted for them is because I threw my silly ratings to the side and voted for the album I enjoy the most. I would never vote for something out of a sense of "obligation," since there are many, many masterpieces that don't resonate with me. (Just for one example, I'm certainly not going to vote for "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" in the 2002 poll because of its status and impact. I respect it, and like parts of it, but overall it's not for me.)
No, that wasn't aimed at you. The other reason I felt that way was because, in another thread when I posted my ranking of the top 100 albums, a lot of people posted their lists with this album near the bottom, and bootsy said it didn't surprise him since this isn't a hip hop-heavy forum...Now all the sudden, it's dominating a strong opponent.

Actually, StevieFan is the only one I'm aware of who admitted to initially ranking albums highly despite not liking them, due to their status and impact...But he also said this is one of his personal favorite albums.
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by jamieW »

andyd1010 wrote:
jamieW wrote:
andyd1010 wrote:Since it never registered with anyone in my life, and I didn't appreciate it when I listened through it, I wondered if people were just voting for it out of some sense of obligation due to its status and impact...You have demonstrated otherwise.
Hopefully, this isn't a reference to me stating I had Kendrick ranked higher, but couldn't vote against PE. The reason I voted for them is because I threw my silly ratings to the side and voted for the album I enjoy the most. I would never vote for something out of a sense of "obligation," since there are many, many masterpieces that don't resonate with me. (Just for one example, I'm certainly not going to vote for "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" in the 2002 poll because of its status and impact. I respect it, and like parts of it, but overall it's not for me.)
No, that wasn't aimed at you. The other reason I felt that way was because, in another thread when I posted my ranking of the top 100 albums, a lot of people posted their lists with this album near the bottom, and bootsy said it didn't surprise him since this isn't a hip hop-heavy forum...Now all the sudden, it's dominating a strong opponent.

Actually, StevieFan is the only one I'm aware of who admitted to initially ranking albums highly despite not liking them, due to their status and impact...But he also said this is one of his personal favorite albums.
Sorry about the misunderstanding, andy1010. Now that you mention it, I remember the same thing. I had "Millions" ranked at #28 and "TPAB" at #21 in that thread (because I ranked them entirely by the ratings in my spreadsheet), which probably was why I jumped to the wrong conclusion. I'm not surprised there may be a generational divide in this, since I think a younger generation may have the same reaction to Kendrick's great album that people from mine did when "Millions" was released.
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by bootsy »

andyd1010 wrote:
Nassim wrote:Albums
Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly
2 albums whose acclaim I really understand (they're both huge cultural landmarks with real artistic accomplishment and forward thinking music) but don't enjoy listening at all. TPaB has i and The Blacker the Berry though, so here goes my vote.
I agree with that about It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back. To those who voted for it, I'm curious, do you really enjoy listening to it and think it's great music? I find Public Enemy very hard to listen to in general. It just doesn't strike me as musical. Most hip hop isn't particularly melodic, but a lot of the great artists still weave melodic lines into their beats or choruses (this is especially why I think Kanye is such a great artist). Public Enemy almost never does that. A lot of people respect them for their use of samples too, but I find that most of the time they create a cluttered, noisy background that just sounds like a mess to me.
UH YEAH I fucking enjoy listening to it. Constant noise? I know you didn't say it but someone else did. Please, that's the hallmark of PE's sound, Terminator X chopping shit up and Chuck D giving you those hard, motivating rhymes. That's a lot more meaningful and memorable than anything off of TPAB. I like the album but this Kendrick love is going a little bit over the top. Let's slow way down on this guy.

Do I really enjoy listening to it? Nah man I just voted for it for the hell of it.

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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by andyd1010 »

jamieW wrote:I'm not surprised there may be a generational divide in this, since I think a younger generation may have the same reaction to Kendrick's great album that people from mine did when "Millions" was released.
I would expect this too.
bootsy wrote: UH YEAH I fucking enjoy listening to it. Constant noise? I know you didn't say it but someone else did. Please, that's the hallmark of PE's sound, Terminator X chopping shit up and Chuck D giving you those hard, motivating rhymes. That's a lot more meaningful and memorable than anything off of TPAB.

Do I really enjoy listening to it? Nah man I just voted for it for the hell of it.
Once again, sorry for the dumb and disrespectful question.

I'll give an example to illustrate more of what I meant. Rod Laver was an all-time great tennis player who had a more impressive career than Andy Murray. But if you had the two play each other in their prime with the equipment they had, Andy Murray would dismantle Laver, who played with a small wooden racquet. Just by observing the level of play, one would conclude that Murray is the better player. By assessing their accomplishments and impact on tennis, one would conclude that Laver is better.

Same thing applies there...Asking if someone today enjoyed watching Laver play would still be disrespectful, because he was a great player. But it would still surprise me if people thought he looked like he played at a higher level than Murray does at his peak.

You might still think it's a dumb question, but it would have been better if I asked whether people enjoyed listening to Millions more than TPAB, or whether they voted for other reasons.

Clearly it's different with art; a lot of my favorite music is old, and plenty of new music is terrible. But in sports and music, certain things were very impressive at first, and then they were mimicked and improved upon. It can be hard to imagine what things were like when they were brand new, if you didn't live through it.
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by Rocky Raccoon »

andyd1010 wrote:
Rocky Raccoon wrote: So, yeah, I do really enjoy listening to it, and I do think it's great music.
Sorry, my question you're retorting to there was ill-advised. It probably sounded ridiculous to you, especially about such a highly acclaimed album. It came out before I was born, and I have never met anyone who (to my knowledge) was a big fan of Public Enemy or this album. Plenty of my friends are into old-school hip hop, but that mostly means 2pac, Biggie, Jay-Z, Nas, Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg. Since it never registered with anyone in my life, and I didn't appreciate it when I listened through it, I wondered if people were just voting for it out of some sense of obligation due to its status and impact...You have demonstrated otherwise.

There are a few other "classic" albums I feel similarly about, where I don't connect at all with the music, and it makes me wonder how much other factors like impact have swayed people's opinions...I'll try to find more polite ways to delve into that next time.
No problem, I understand what you were getting at. I just felt the need to offer a defense of one of my favorite albums. There are also some highly-acclaimed albums/sacred cows around here that I can't wrap my head around the appeal.
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by jimmyj »

andyd1010 wrote:
Nassim wrote:Albums
Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly
2 albums whose acclaim I really understand (they're both huge cultural landmarks with real artistic accomplishment and forward thinking music) but don't enjoy listening at all. TPaB has i and The Blacker the Berry though, so here goes my vote.
I agree with that about It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back. To those who voted for it, I'm curious, do you really enjoy listening to it and think it's great music? I find Public Enemy very hard to listen to in general. It just doesn't strike me as musical. Most hip hop isn't particularly melodic, but a lot of the great artists still weave melodic lines into their beats or choruses (this is especially why I think Kanye is such a great artist). Public Enemy almost never does that. A lot of people respect them for their use of samples too, but I find that most of the time they create a cluttered, noisy background that just sounds like a mess to me.
I may be able to provide a perspective on this.
I grew up in the late eighties/early nineties listening to "Millions" as well as the other great albums by PE of the time. Yo Bum rush and Black Planet.
I actually considered myself their #1 fan at the time.
I still feel those three albums are one of the best if not the best 3 album string in Music history.

The music is just so energetic, and emotional. Between the beats by X, Chuck D's powerful voice and rap flow, and Flavor Flav's raps and comedic partner to Chucks seriousness.
The piercing shrill that is found on some songs on Millions, always sounded great to me. I can see how it could be a little piercing for some. But with Millions I think it works and it adds an emotional significance or weight, if you will, to the music. It adds a sense of urgency.
As far as messy samples, and the music itself, I urge you to listen again, and pay attention to just the density of some of the sounds on Millions. Listen to Party for your Right. And hear the 2 vocal tracks of Chuck and Flav layered over each other. I feel that they are competing but at the same time rapping together. Fires me up every time.

Fast forward 20+ years later, I have both Millions and TPAB in my car right now. I have listened to TPAB many times. And though I think TPAB has some great music, when I listen to Millions, I still get that charge when hearing Black Steel or Baseheads. It just fires me up in a way that TPAB doesn't.

So to answer the question, I absolutely 100%, feel Millions is better than TPAB. As always, music being music, and all bring their unique perspectives.

Hope that helps.
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by andyd1010 »

jimmyj wrote:
andyd1010 wrote:
Nassim wrote:Albums
Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly
2 albums whose acclaim I really understand (they're both huge cultural landmarks with real artistic accomplishment and forward thinking music) but don't enjoy listening at all. TPaB has i and The Blacker the Berry though, so here goes my vote.
I agree with that about It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back. To those who voted for it, I'm curious, do you really enjoy listening to it and think it's great music? I find Public Enemy very hard to listen to in general. It just doesn't strike me as musical. Most hip hop isn't particularly melodic, but a lot of the great artists still weave melodic lines into their beats or choruses (this is especially why I think Kanye is such a great artist). Public Enemy almost never does that. A lot of people respect them for their use of samples too, but I find that most of the time they create a cluttered, noisy background that just sounds like a mess to me.
I may be able to provide a perspective on this.
I grew up in the late eighties/early nineties listening to "Millions" as well as the other great albums by PE of the time. Yo Bum rush and Black Planet.
I actually considered myself their #1 fan at the time.
I still feel those three albums are one of the best if not the best 3 album string in Music history.

The music is just so energetic, and emotional. Between the beats by X, Chuck D's powerful voice and rap flow, and Flavor Flav's raps and comedic partner to Chucks seriousness.
The piercing shrill that is found on some songs on Millions, always sounded great to me. I can see how it could be a little piercing for some. But with Millions I think it works and it adds an emotional significance or weight, if you will, to the music. It adds a sense of urgency.
As far as messy samples, and the music itself, I urge you to listen again, and pay attention to just the density of some of the sounds on Millions. Listen to Party for your Right. And hear the 2 vocal tracks of Chuck and Flav layered over each other. I feel that they are competing but at the same time rapping together. Fires me up every time.

Fast forward 20+ years later, I have both Millions and TPAB in my car right now. I have listened to TPAB many times. And though I think TPAB has some great music, when I listen to Millions, I still get that charge when hearing Black Steel or Baseheads. It just fires me up in a way that TPAB doesn't.

So to answer the question, I absolutely 100%, feel Millions is better than TPAB. As always, music being music, and all bring their unique perspectives.

Hope that helps.
Thanks. I am starting to appreciate it more.
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by Listyguy »

Here's my album vote (songs to come later):

Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back vs. Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly
Niether of these albums is an all time favorite, but they're both solid. "Black Steel" is a tour de force.
OutKast - Stankonia vs. Drake - Take Care
I have no interest in listening to an 80-minute Drake album (and I don't really have the time to this week), so I must abstain from this one.
De La Soul - 3 Feet High and Rising vs. Beastie Boys - Paul’s Boutique
3 Feet High and Rising has never tickled me the right way. Beasties are always great though.
Wu-Tang Clan - Enter the Wu Tang (36 Chambers) vs. Kendrick Lamar - Section.80
Kendrick's weakest release (I haven't heard his new album yet) gets bested by Wu-Tang.
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by prosecutorgodot »

It was quite a process to go through these albums, and now I'm all hip-hopped out. I don't know if I can keep this up for another 3 weeks...

Album Thoughts:
ITANOMTHUB --- The sound still doesn't quite *click* with me, but I don't dislike it. I get the cultural aspect blah blah. I don't get, and have never gotten, the Chuck D/Flava Flav dynamic. It's definitely not a full-blown rap duo like Run the Jewels, but it's not like Flava Flav is simply hypeman/adlibs, because he gets a full song on here, and occasionally has a few bars here and there. So it's like 1 1/4 of a duo. It's confusing me. I'm starting to get the hang of Chuck D's delivery and lyrics. Fave track: "She Watch Channel Zero??"

TPAB --- My second favorite hip-hop album only to Section.80. Great songs, great concept, great experimentation with jazz on songs like "for free?" Fave track: "for sale?"

Stankonia --- Fun skits, good tracks. Fave track: "Ms. Jackson"

Take Care --- I hadn't heard this album prior to this week. Not a bad album, but it's overlong, and there is quite a bit of corn. Drake also sounds inauthentic to me. As I said before, Kendrick's DAMN. improves on most if not all of the elements on this album. I liked the beat on the Rick Ross track.

3FHAR --- Pioneering album in skits, and wonky colorful beats. I really enjoy the positivity on this album. Fave track: "Eye Know" / "Tread Water"

Paul's Boutique --- Another album, like ITANOMTHUB, which I respect more than I actually enjoy. I get that this was a pioneering album in sampling. I personally prefer the straightforward energy of Licensed to Ill. I don't really have a fave track, it kinda bled together for me.

36 Chambers --- Of course Section.80 couldn't compete with this. This is an album that is impossible to dislike, unless you're super conservative and can't understand fantasy and humor. I quite enjoy the beats, and I love that the emcees all sound different. Ol' Dirty Bastard sticks out to me the most. Fave track: "C.R.E.A.M." and I love Method Man's skit too.

Section.80 --- This is a freaking fantastic album. It sucks that I'll probably be the only one to vote for this album. On the surface, this is a very laid-back album, and Kendrick's delivery does sound boring at several points on the album. I think the Achilles' heel of this album (at least in this tournament) is how safe it is. You can hear the MBDTF influences in the beats, and it is the least original of these 8 albums with the exception of maybe Take Care and Stankonia. But I was drawn in by Kendrick's storytelling and focused songwriting pretty quickly. If you listen to his lyrics, he is incredibly passionate and authentic, he doesn't say anything he doesn't actually feel, and it shows. Probably I am way too in awe of Kendrick's personality; his head is screwed on so good, I can't think of an artist with a better head on his shoulders after listening to this album. The beats on this album are more diverse on this album than his other studio albums. I would argue that the last six song stretch is the best closing third of a hip-hop album of all time. Fave track: "HiiiPoWeR"

Picks:

Albums
Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly
OutKast - Stankonia
De La Soul - 3 Feet High and Rising
Kendrick Lamar - Section.80

Songs
N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton
Dr. Dre - Nuthin But a ‘G’ Thang
Jay Z - Empire State of Mind
Jay Z - 99 Problems
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five - The Message
Public Enemy - Bring the Noise
Public Enemy - Fight the Power
Missy Elliott - Get Ur Freak On
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by phil »

Albums
Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back vs. Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly
OutKast - Stankonia vs. Drake - Take Care
-
-

Songs
N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton vs. 2pac - Dear Mama
Dr. Dre - Nuthin But a ‘G’ Thang vs. UGK - Int'l Players Anthem (I Choose You)
Jay Z - Empire State of Mind vs. Mobb Deep - Survival of the Fittest
Jay Z - 99 Problems vs. MC Solaar - Le Nouveau Western
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five - The Message vs. Kanye West - Gone
Beastie Boys - Sabotage vs. Public Enemy - Bring the Noise
Public Enemy - Fight the Power vs. LL Cool J - I Need Love
Afrika Bambaataa & The Soul Sonic Force - Planet Rock vs. Missy Elliott - Get Ur Freak On
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by Dan »

I don't have nearly enough listening time at the moment to participate in all the games I would like to participate in. :? But hey, life happens. I'm choosing this game this week.

Albums
2. Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back
vs.
4. Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly

1. OutKast - Stankonia
vs.
8. Drake - Take Care

6. De La Soul - 3 Feet High and Rising
vs.
3. Beastie Boys - Paul’s Boutique

5. Wu-Tang Clan - Enter the Wu Tang (36 Chambers)
vs.
7. Kendrick Lamar - Section.80

It feels a little absurd to me to have 3 Feet High and Rising as low as number 6 out of 8 on a list of hip hop albums.

Songs
5. N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton
vs.
15. 2pac - Dear Mama

7. Dr. Dre - Nuthin But a ‘G’ Thang
vs.
10. UGK - Int'l Players Anthem (I Choose You)

12. Jay Z - Empire State of Mind
vs.
11. Deep - Survival of the Fittest

4. Jay Z - 99 Problems
vs.
6. MC Solaar - Le Nouveau Western

9. Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five - The Message
vs.
13. Kanye West - Gone

1. Beastie Boys - Sabotage
vs.
8. Public Enemy - Bring the Noise

2. Public Enemy - Fight the Power
vs.
14. LL Cool J - I Need Love

16. Afrika Bambaataa & The Soul Sonic Force - Planet Rock
vs.
3. Missy Elliott - Get Ur Freak On

Sometimes I wish I could love those early 80s pioneers of hip hop more than I do. But I can't help but feel that the legends of the late 80s and beyond are more evolved.
...will keep us together.
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by ordinaryperson »

WINNERS

Albums
Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back vs. Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly (17-5)
OutKast - Stankonia vs. Drake - Take Care (19-1)
De La Soul - 3 Feet High and Rising vs. Beastie Boys - Paul’s Boutique (12-7)
Wu-Tang Clan - Enter the Wu Tang (36 Chambers) vs. Kendrick Lamar - Section.80 (18-1)

Songs
N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton vs. 2pac - Dear Mama (17-3)
Dr. Dre - Nuthin But a ‘G’ Thang vs. UGK - Int'l Players Anthem (I Choose You) (12-8)
Jay Z - Empire State of Mind vs. Mobb Deep - Survival of the Fittest (11-9)
Jay Z - 99 Problems vs. MC Solaar - Le Nouveau Western (11-8)
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five - The Message vs. Kanye West - Gone (15-5)
Beastie Boys - Sabotage vs. Public Enemy - Bring the Noise (13-8)
Public Enemy - Fight the Power vs. LL Cool J - I Need Love (19-1)
Afrika Bambaataa & The Soul Sonic Force - Planet Rock vs. Missy Elliott - Get Ur Freak On (8-12)
There is No More Firmament.
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by bootsy »

ordinaryperson wrote:WINNERS


Songs

Jay Z - Empire State of Mind vs. Mobb Deep - Survival of the Fittest (11-9)
Image
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by StevieFan13 »

bootsy wrote:
ordinaryperson wrote:WINNERS


Songs

Jay Z - Empire State of Mind vs. Mobb Deep - Survival of the Fittest (11-9)
Image
NYC represent!
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Re: Music of Hip Hop: Round 1, Week 1

Post by EmilienDelRey »

StevieFan13 wrote:
bootsy wrote:
ordinaryperson wrote:WINNERS


Songs

Jay Z - Empire State of Mind vs. Mobb Deep - Survival of the Fittest (11-9)
Image
NYC represent!
-__-
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