1) Which version of "Are You Experienced" should I listen to as the "qualifying" one? The original "North American" and "British" versions are very different in terms of the tracks they include, but there are also the 1997 reissues which contain everything in both cases. Still, I am not sure.
2) What is the minimum amount of albums that I should listen to in order to participate, say, in an All-Time Albums Poll here?
Thanks in advance and sorry for the amount of "noobness" in the questions above. Been familiar with the site for a couple of years or so, but I've just only started listening to albums properly for six months.
2 questions
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Henrik
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Re: 2 questions
Hi Barry and welcome to the Acclaimed Music Forum!
1. Very good question. I ask myself the same thing every time it's time to include AYE in a list and I tend to fall somewhere inbetween (the US version with some penalty because the singles weren't on the original version). I don't think there's a right or wrong here and my guess is that most people have the US version in mind as they like it more.
2. Sometimes we have polls where a minimum of albums are required, and of course then you would need to have listened to at least that number of albums. I don't think we have ever used a minimum of listened albums as a stand alone criterion. This is a friendly forum where everyone should feel invited to our games. I look forward to seeing your lists, Barry!
1. Very good question. I ask myself the same thing every time it's time to include AYE in a list and I tend to fall somewhere inbetween (the US version with some penalty because the singles weren't on the original version). I don't think there's a right or wrong here and my guess is that most people have the US version in mind as they like it more.
2. Sometimes we have polls where a minimum of albums are required, and of course then you would need to have listened to at least that number of albums. I don't think we have ever used a minimum of listened albums as a stand alone criterion. This is a friendly forum where everyone should feel invited to our games. I look forward to seeing your lists, Barry!
Everyone you meet fights a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. Always.
Re: 2 questions
Thanks a lot Henrik!
Actually, to be more specific, I should have put the question like this: "How many albums should I listen to in order to make a more reliable list, in terms of personal experience and music taste?"
Actually, to be more specific, I should have put the question like this: "How many albums should I listen to in order to make a more reliable list, in terms of personal experience and music taste?"
Re: 2 questions
Well if you want to compare to some people on the forum like mindrocker or sonofsamiam it would be an impossible mission. For yearly polls I try to listen to the top 20 of the AM list plus the albums I am either most likely to like or am the more curious about (considering that I'm likely to dislike the others, which is not always true but hey, got to make a choice)... That being said, I do that for 90s and 00s polls because I already know a decent part of those decades, will be more complicating for the 80s and even more for my loathed 70s.Barry wrote: Actually, to be more specific, I should have put the question like this: "How many albums should I listen to in order to make a more reliable list, in terms of personal experience and music taste?"
Anyway, for the all-time polls I think it's good to hear as much of the favorites (so basically to listen to the previous forum poll top and go as far down as you can) because those will be the albums for which your vote will make a difference ! And I am also convinced that the AMers often have better tastes than the critics (though there might be a bias in favor of soul, folk and rock vs the other music genres), so it's a good way to discover music.
Re: 2 questions
Thank you too for the advice given Nassim! Although I have already made a list of my own made of suggestions by friends, I will surely check out the favorites from the decade and all-time polls, which I think are also included into this list (well some that pop up in my mind as exceptions are "Illinois" and "Odyssey And Oracle", but I will definitely catch up with them too). Certainly I don't expect to reach the levels of having heard thousands of records, at least not in a short chronical term-but at least I'm going to try and gain a minimum amount of experience in this aspect!
Not trying to be annoying or something because of my obvious verbiage, but your characterisation for the '70s is actually interesting, because most of the time people who listen to music, if they are going to grump about a decade that will be either the '80s ("when crappy mainstream synth-pop conquered the world" they'll say-definitely not true in a decade when indie rock and rap were invented and heavy metal went into mainstream), the '90s ("ewwww! it was all about useless brit-pop, MTV and grunge" forgetting of course the fact that "britpop" itself was a very generical term, used even for bands not including themselves into the movement, like Radiohead, The Verve and Oasis, or the evolution of indie-rock and rap through artists like Pavement, Weezer, A Tribe Called Quest and Wu-Tang Clan in the U.S., obviously more pals than the, mostly great, ones who bothered with grunge like Soundgarden and Pearl Jam aside Nirvana , even the rise of electronica both in U.S. and U.K. with Prodigy, Underworld, Moby, Aphex Twin) or the '00s ("nothing great happened! all club-music and mainstream R&B" the same time when commercials, films and news broadcasts around the world use songs from Arcade Fire, The Strokes and Interpol as soundtrack). '70s, while not as unanimously glorified as the '60s (which were for music what the '70s were for cinema) are rarely described as something negative. Of course I am not describing this opinion as a "wrong" or "unusual" one, but definitely surprising and somewhat refreshing and I am interested in hearing something more about that, if you're willing of course.
Not trying to be annoying or something because of my obvious verbiage, but your characterisation for the '70s is actually interesting, because most of the time people who listen to music, if they are going to grump about a decade that will be either the '80s ("when crappy mainstream synth-pop conquered the world" they'll say-definitely not true in a decade when indie rock and rap were invented and heavy metal went into mainstream), the '90s ("ewwww! it was all about useless brit-pop, MTV and grunge" forgetting of course the fact that "britpop" itself was a very generical term, used even for bands not including themselves into the movement, like Radiohead, The Verve and Oasis, or the evolution of indie-rock and rap through artists like Pavement, Weezer, A Tribe Called Quest and Wu-Tang Clan in the U.S., obviously more pals than the, mostly great, ones who bothered with grunge like Soundgarden and Pearl Jam aside Nirvana , even the rise of electronica both in U.S. and U.K. with Prodigy, Underworld, Moby, Aphex Twin) or the '00s ("nothing great happened! all club-music and mainstream R&B" the same time when commercials, films and news broadcasts around the world use songs from Arcade Fire, The Strokes and Interpol as soundtrack). '70s, while not as unanimously glorified as the '60s (which were for music what the '70s were for cinema) are rarely described as something negative. Of course I am not describing this opinion as a "wrong" or "unusual" one, but definitely surprising and somewhat refreshing and I am interested in hearing something more about that, if you're willing of course.
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irreduciblekoan
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Re: 2 questions
Re: Are You Experienced? For the intents and purposes of forum polls I guess the U.S., or 1997 re-issue, versions would be what most people mean when they mention that album. I personally prefer the UK album (for me, the tracks flow a little more and the inclusion of Red House is essential). What I usually do when I listen to the album is UK track listing + Hey Joe, Purple Haze, and The Wind Cries Mary. I actually don't care for the other 3 tracks, and indeed they were just B-sides and such. UK version is the proper album for me, plus the three A-sides at the end. Just my two cents.
Re: 2 questions
Well, more than "the 70s", I should say that I don't like anything released between 74 and 76 and very little things released from 71 to 73. Punk (in a very broad sense including also Suicide or Television), beginnings of electronic music and in a lesser extend disco make the end of the decade worthwile.
My tastes are a bit different than some of most people on the forum, my favorite decades are the 00s and the 90s because most of the things I love in music heritate from a bunch of albums released in 88 or 89 (the start of indie, the Detroit's house and what still might be the 4 most influential albums in hip-hop history), but I still like punk and everything the DIY spirit made possible. Most people dislike the 80s either for the synth aesthetic or the relative lack of great albums, but that's forgetting how many great singles came either from pop bands not good at releasing a full great albums or from genres single oriented (early hip-hop and electronic music) or from genres where listening to a full album is sometimes a tough experience (hardcore punk in particular).
My first big problem with the middle of the 70s is the lack of eclectism, you basically have to listen either to soul, folk or classic-rock (which probably did not make much sense back then, but it seems like the most explicit way to describe it), and those are 3 genres that most of the time don't talk to me that much. Most of the few ground-breaking artists that would not really fit any of these categories are also artists I don't like much, like Roxy Music or Robert Wyatt. What the 60s lack in variety, they compensate with quality and quantity, I can't say the same for the 70s.
It's also when most of the top 100 albums I really dislike have been released (Blood on Tracks, Rumours and most of all Layla).
Also, save for a handful of albums I really like in this timespan, most of the things I enjoy share the same space on disc as boring tracks. For every couple of great krautrocks song you have to go through a 10 minute experimentation barely audible ; I would say that for every wonderful Stevie Wonder song I have to deal with one or 2 boring ones too, but most of the forum would disagree on that !
And even from artists I like, I lost interest in Bowie after Aladin Sane, I don't enjoy late Led Zeppelin or Who...
My tastes are a bit different than some of most people on the forum, my favorite decades are the 00s and the 90s because most of the things I love in music heritate from a bunch of albums released in 88 or 89 (the start of indie, the Detroit's house and what still might be the 4 most influential albums in hip-hop history), but I still like punk and everything the DIY spirit made possible. Most people dislike the 80s either for the synth aesthetic or the relative lack of great albums, but that's forgetting how many great singles came either from pop bands not good at releasing a full great albums or from genres single oriented (early hip-hop and electronic music) or from genres where listening to a full album is sometimes a tough experience (hardcore punk in particular).
My first big problem with the middle of the 70s is the lack of eclectism, you basically have to listen either to soul, folk or classic-rock (which probably did not make much sense back then, but it seems like the most explicit way to describe it), and those are 3 genres that most of the time don't talk to me that much. Most of the few ground-breaking artists that would not really fit any of these categories are also artists I don't like much, like Roxy Music or Robert Wyatt. What the 60s lack in variety, they compensate with quality and quantity, I can't say the same for the 70s.
It's also when most of the top 100 albums I really dislike have been released (Blood on Tracks, Rumours and most of all Layla).
Also, save for a handful of albums I really like in this timespan, most of the things I enjoy share the same space on disc as boring tracks. For every couple of great krautrocks song you have to go through a 10 minute experimentation barely audible ; I would say that for every wonderful Stevie Wonder song I have to deal with one or 2 boring ones too, but most of the forum would disagree on that !
And even from artists I like, I lost interest in Bowie after Aladin Sane, I don't enjoy late Led Zeppelin or Who...
Re: 2 questions
OK, I'll definitely include this suggestion into consideration, since it clarifies that the UK version is probably the "most qualifying" one, despite the popularity of the US one (something I totally understand regarding the greatness of the singles "Hey Joe" and "Purple Haze" at least-I like "The Wind Cries Mary" but not as much as the other two). Thank you irreduciblekoan!irreduciblekoan wrote:Re: Are You Experienced? For the intents and purposes of forum polls I guess the U.S., or 1997 re-issue, versions would be what most people mean when they mention that album. I personally prefer the UK album (for me, the tracks flow a little more and the inclusion of Red House is essential). What I usually do when I listen to the album is UK track listing + Hey Joe, Purple Haze, and The Wind Cries Mary. I actually don't care for the other 3 tracks, and indeed they were just B-sides and such. UK version is the proper album for me, plus the three A-sides at the end. Just my two cents.
Now, about the '70s issue... Quite an intersting and well expressed opinion about this one, although I have a feeling that those 3 years included a small amount of the things you describe as "likeable" to your musical tastes (like Patti Smith's "Horses", Kraftwerk, Brian Eno, New York Dolls, the debut albums by Ramones and Modern Lovers or stuff like ABBA), but still I understand the point about not enough variety during this period (I would aso add reggae into thos 3 genres). I definitely do not agree though with the point many people make, that '80s was not a decade for iconic albums. I haven't heard probably 90% of these titles YET, I'm naming them though in order to prove this opinion as somewhat invalid, because influence and an "all-time great" status are two factors that despite the personal opinion of everyone of us exist in every single form of art and cannot be denied by anyone: "Thriller", "Purple Rain", "The Queen Is Dead" (the biggest proof that indie was becoming huge from the middle of that decade), "Closer", "Born In The U.S.A.", "The Stone Roses", "The Joshua Tree", "It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back", "Straight Outta Compton", "Paul's Boutique", "3 Feet High And Rising" (the 4 hip-hop masterworks of that era maybe?), "Appetite For Destruction", "Master Of Puppets". No matter what me and you or anybody believes about those works, they have definitely conquered a seat in the pantheon of music, for the right or wrong reasons, deservingly or not and have gathered a massive fanbase over the years to support their classic status in the genre they represent (although I have to note that I might be missing works of more importance and adding works of lesser magnitude, but anyway I'm just giving examples).
I have to admit though that I really enjoy "Blood On The Tracks" and the two late LZ albums I've heard, especially "ZoSo"
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sonofsamiam
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Re: 2 questions
Barry, in this thread alone I think you've already displayed enough knowledge of, and intellectual curiousity about, music to engage in any game or poll on this forum. Do not worry!
Nassim, we'll have to agree to disagree about the '70s. Vive la différence!
Nassim, we'll have to agree to disagree about the '70s. Vive la différence!