1900 - 1959 Poll

[jamieW]

Hi, all.

Hard to believe I’ve been around nearly four years and this is the first thread I’ve actually started. There’s been some discussion about the 1900-1959 poll this year, but so far we haven’t had any volunteers. I know it’s a little different from the typical format of our decade polls, but I was wondering if anyone would be interested in simplifying the first step and have everyone submit a list of up to 150 favorite songs and (since albums were scarce, to put things mildly) 50 favorite albums between 1900-1959. Once I have all of the lists, I can calculate the results, and we can then return to tradition by having everyone rank the overall top 150 songs and top 50 albums. Since we already have a lot going on, and since we usually don’t commence our final decade rankings until December of each year (not to mention how busy I am), I plan on making the deadline for submissions not until October 31st, which should give everyone plenty of time. I will then take a couple of weeks to compile/double-check the results, and we can have a month and a half or so to rank all the songs/albums we’ve heard. The only thing I ask is for a volunteer to roll out the results in January, since presentations are not my strong suit, and a very high standard has been set by our past poll hosts.

Basically, I just think there was so much wonderful music in the first half of the 1900s, and it would be a shame to let this year go by without celebrating them (and then just move on to the 2000s next year like an entire half-century of music never existed). Please let me know your thoughts. If there is enough interest, I will create a thread for list submissions and just give it a bump throughout the year as a reminder that the poll is still ongoing.

[babydoll]

I honestly think there is interest while maybe not as much as the later decades. Nonetheless it's still an important era in music (I mean 60 years of it!) and there are possibilities of great and wonderful discoveries to be found. And to be honest, I really am grateful that you just ask for both a straight up 150 songs and a straight up 50 albums lists, because it really simplifies things a bit more for me. Also thank you for starting this!

[DaveC]

This would be a great way to go. As for the final rollout, I'm just not sure how busy I will be at the time, but I can go down as a possible volunteer to be confirmed (or not) at a later date.

[notbrianeno]

I would really like to participate in this poll, if only to increase my (limited) knowledge of an era which so many on this forum love.

[babydoll]

I am wondering if there'll be a recommendation thread for it can be very helpful especially in exploring foreign-language songs/albums and generally unknown songs/albums.

[bonnielaurel]

Yes, this poll should definitely be held. I think 150 songs and 50 albums is fine.

A recommendation thread is surely a good idea, otherwise lots of good songs would just get one vote and remain unnoticed by the others.

[PlasticRam]

Yeah sorry I kind of randomly volunteered and left it in the open. Turns out I have kind of a bad schedule and wouldn't have been able to do this. Thanks JamieW, looking forward to this!

[jamieW]

It looks like there is some initial interest in doing this. I plan on leaving this open for discussion/suggestions until next Monday, and then I can start the official thread with the rules for submitting lists, etc. based upon the consensus. I also think a recommendation thread is a great idea! If somebody else doesn't create one beforehand, I will also start a separate thread myself.

Also, thanks to DaveC for volunteering to be a (possible) host for the results rollout. I'm willing to start this with the good faith that someone will have time to put together the countdown when January arrives. (If not, my presentation compared to past presentations might be the equivalent of comparing "Steamboat Willie" to Miyazaki!)

Please keep the thoughts/ideas coming everyone!

[BleuPanda]

I think doing a straight up list here would work well. It's one of those things where I'd feel awkward contributing to the 'yearly' polls due to my lack of knowledge, since I'd feel like I'd weigh the era toward songs that are simply better known. As long as people have some suggested playlists, I'll be set.

[Listyguy]

The one problem I have with a "just everything from 1900-1959" list is that it will probably be very 50s heavy, which I think defeats the purpose of this poll. Maybe users can submit a separate list for each decade or something so they all get representation? Obviously albums would basically just be for the 50s but I think the songs could have a good turnout even for the early decades.

[babydoll]

The one problem I have with a "just everything from 1900-1959" list is that it will probably be very 50s heavy, which I think defeats the purpose of this poll. Maybe users can submit a separate list for each decade or something so they all get representation? Obviously albums would basically just be for the 50s but I think the songs could have a good turnout even for the early decades.

Don't forget that albums were made in the 1940s, of perhaps lesser quality, and Leadbelly even released an album in 1939.

I propose top 45 songs from the 1950s, 35 from the 1940s, 1930s, and 1900-1929. That gives an extra leverage to the 1950s which everyone loves just a tad bit more, but fair representation of the other decades than perhaps 1900-1919 (which still wouldn't be popular either way).

[Romain]

And, as usual, we have to be clear with classical and film music. it's an extraordinary period for classical with some huge revolution.
I'm for exluded classical music (not sure for film music even if, by this time, it's often the same composers).

And I totally agree with the two previous post about the sure predominance of the 50's mostly for the album, we have to balance that.



Advertising: for the "foreign" language songs Babydoll, I know a certain thread for some French songs...

[jamieW]

It’s an excellent point that the way I’m constructing this would weigh too heavily in favor of the fifties. Does everyone think it would work if we still just have everyone submit an overall top 150 songs list (as planned) and we’ll decide beforehand (no time like the present!) how many songs we’re taking from each decade? This way, it keeps the process simple, since I can just rank everything based upon points, and then take the decided-upon number of songs from each decade for the final poll.

Also, Romain, I had planned on including both classical and film music. As you said, it was an extraordinary period for both, and I think it’s fine if people list Stravinsky, Gershwin, etc. One of the things I love most about our forum polls is the variety; so I think the more, the better! (Again, though, I’m completely open for suggestions.)

[babydoll]

And, as usual, we have to be clear with classical and film music. it's an extraordinary period for classical with some huge revolution.
I'm for exluded classical music (not sure for film music even if, by this time, it's often the same composers).

And I'm totally agree with the two previous post about the sure predominance of the 50's mostly for the album, we have to balance that.



Advertising: for the "foreign" language songs Babydoll, I know a certain thread for some French songs...

No, I think film scores should be in, and why not allow classical music if you mention a specific recording? I might be really wanting to vote for Leonard Bernstein's awesome interpretation of Le Sacre du printemps under the album poll.

And yes, I do know about your wonderful series of recommendations, but they only focus on French songs. What about Spanish, Japanese, Italian, Russian, German, etc.?

[DaveC]

It’s an excellent point that the way I’m constructing this would weigh too heavily in favor of the fifties. Does everyone think it would work if we still just have everyone submit an overall top 150 songs list (as planned) and we’ll decide beforehand (no time like the present!) how many songs we’re taking from each decade? This way, it keeps the process simple, since I can just rank everything based upon points, and then take the decided-upon number of songs from each decade for the final poll.

Also, Romain, I had planned on including both classical and film music. As you said, it was an extraordinary period for both, and I think it’s fine if people list Stravinsky, Gershwin, etc. One of the things I love most about our forum polls is the variety; so I think the more, the better! (Again, though, I’m completely open for suggestions.)

Totally agree on both counts.

The last 1900-1949 poll (http://pub37.bravenet.com/forum/static/ ... 3&cmd=show) had a good mix of different genres.

[Romain]

Totally agree on both counts.

The last 1900-1949 poll (http://pub37.bravenet.com/forum/static/ ... 3&cmd=show) had a good mix of different genres.

In fact, if I want to excluded classical music, it's because, if we accept the kind of music, my final list might only contains classical music. Always fot he same reason, how to compare a 2' songs with an 1h30 hour piece of music?

But, whatever, the game will be sensational anyway

[Listyguy]

It’s an excellent point that the way I’m constructing this would weigh too heavily in favor of the fifties. Does everyone think it would work if we still just have everyone submit an overall top 150 songs list (as planned) and we’ll decide beforehand (no time like the present!) how many songs we’re taking from each decade? This way, it keeps the process simple, since I can just rank everything based upon points, and then take the decided-upon number of songs from each decade for the final poll.

Also, Romain, I had planned on including both classical and film music. As you said, it was an extraordinary period for both, and I think it’s fine if people list Stravinsky, Gershwin, etc. One of the things I love most about our forum polls is the variety; so I think the more, the better! (Again, though, I’m completely open for suggestions.)

Totally agree on both counts.

The last 1900-1949 poll (http://pub37.bravenet.com/forum/static/ ... 3&cmd=show) had a good mix of different genres.

We could follow the path that was taken back in 2011, and have the 50s songs poll separate from the 1900-1949 poll. We've got a while to decide on this if the deadline isn't until the end of October anyway.

As an aside, looking over the 2011 list, I had no idea "Limehouse Blues" was that big of a favorite on the forum.

[jamieW]

I definitely wouldn't have any problem separating the two. (I think this would probably be the fairest way to give the 1900-1949 songs a chance to shine, too.) What we could do is have those interested in participating submit a Top 100 list for 1900-1949 and a Top 100 list for 1950-1959. (Of course, people are welcome to submit less songs or submit a list for only one of the two.) Then I could just take the Top 100 from each period and have us rank the songs accordingly. (In other words, two separate Top 100 polls.) The albums poll could remain the same (an overall Top 50). Again, feel free to keep posting suggestions and ideas. As I said, if nobody does it sooner, I'll create a recommendations thread on Monday. It will be around that time that I'll also attempt to develop a tentative formula, etc. going forward.

[sonofsamiam]

I like that idea of a 50s and a 1900-1949 poll, at least for songs; albums should probably be blended as it is SO '50s heavy.

Also, for the songs of '00-'49, we solved a lot of problems then in two ways, since the idea of the recording and the song were fairly different then:

1. Count all the votes for the song itself, rather than the recording artist (that can apply to both various versions of classical recordings, as well as standards, which can have many different singers). The key is the song needs to have been written in that time period.

2. For classical, vote for movements / arias rather than entire works.

If you look at the old '00-'49 results, it worked out great.

For the albums list, I guess classical recordings could be included, but with the caveat that the recording be from the pre-1960 time period, and the composition from post-1899.

Does any of the above make sense?

[babydoll]

I like that idea of a 50s and a 1900-1949 poll, at least for songs; albums should probably be blended as it is SO '50s heavy.

Also, for the songs of '00-'49, we solved a lot of problems then in two ways, since the idea of the recording and the song were fairly different then:

1. Count all the votes for the song itself, rather than the recording artist (that can apply to both various versions of classical recordings, as well as standards, which can have many different singers). The key is the song needs to have been written in that time period.

2. For classical, vote for movements / arias rather than entire works.

If you look at the old '00-'49 results, it worked out great.

For the albums list, I guess classical recordings could be included, but with the caveat that the recording be from the pre-1960 time period, and the composition from post-1899.

Does any of the above make sense?

Just as long as I can vote for Leonard Bernstein's recording of The Rite of Spring.

I think your idea concerning classical music being eligible is more probable than mine.

Of course, I wonder if jamieW feels like he is up to the task of running two different polls considering we started pretty late on this.

[jamieW]

I like that idea of a 50s and a 1900-1949 poll, at least for songs; albums should probably be blended as it is SO '50s heavy.

Also, for the songs of '00-'49, we solved a lot of problems then in two ways, since the idea of the recording and the song were fairly different then:

1. Count all the votes for the song itself, rather than the recording artist (that can apply to both various versions of classical recordings, as well as standards, which can have many different singers). The key is the song needs to have been written in that time period.

2. For classical, vote for movements / arias rather than entire works.

If you look at the old '00-'49 results, it worked out great.

For the albums list, I guess classical recordings could be included, but with the caveat that the recording be from the pre-1960 time period, and the composition from post-1899.

Does any of the above make sense?

Both make perfect sense. I had already begun to worry about vote-splitting in the first-half of the century, since there were numerous popular versions of so many great songs. (Of course, the same does apply somewhat to the fifties, but not nearly as much.) I feared there might be songs that didn't make the Top 100, simply because there was no consensus on a definitive version. When we reach the ranking stage, I can just include the artists that received Top 100 votes for the songs, and people are free to rank it based upon their favorite version.

I also kind of assumed that for the songs list we would be voting for classical movements, arias, etc. and saving the completed works for the albums poll. This is definitely something I should've clarified. (Hopefully, there aren't any other thoughts I'm keeping to myself just because I'm assuming everyone else is thinking the same!)

As always, I welcome any and all input. Is everyone okay with establishing these as guidelines?

[jamieW]

Also, babydoll, it won't be much trouble to run these two song polls separately. It's only an overall increase of 50 songs, since it's two Top 100 polls instead of one Top 150 poll. And really we're not getting that late of a start, since I don't have to worry about calculating decade-by-decade as is usually the case. (That was the reason I suggested the overall list idea, since I don't know how busy I'll be month to month.) As the lists start to roll in, I'll try to keep on top of it, so I should be fine. (Of course, people are still welcome to edit their lists right up to the deadline.)

[bonnielaurel]

Yes, separating the songs before and after 1950 seems like a good idea.

The inclusion of classical music is the biggest problem. The best recordings of classical music from this period were made after 1960. I see it mostly as a poll for early popular music.

[jamieW]

Yes, separating the songs before and after 1950 seems like a good idea.

The inclusion of classical music is the biggest problem. The best recordings of classical music from this period were made after 1960. I see it mostly as a poll for early popular music.

But wouldn't this only be an issue with the albums poll? It's typically been our policy in the past to go by performance years for classical pieces and film scores, since many have pointed out that there haven't been actual recordings of some of them for even decades later. Admittedly, it would affect the albums poll, since the best recordings of most complete classical works would have come post-sixties, but I would still like to include all music from this era.

Obviously, nothing's carved in stone yet, so we have plenty of time to decide. I have a really busy day ahead, but will check back tonight. I look at it that it's everybody else's poll, and I'm just the host, so for everything I plan on going with the consensus.

Thanks, everyone!

[PlasticRam]

I'm excluding classical music, but that's just me.

[jamieW]

Okay, after taking a few days to consider everything, I’ve assembled my thoughts. Since there are many things I found I hadn’t considered, I will delay starting the actual thread for this poll until Friday, just to give everyone who plans on participating a chance to respond before continuing…

1. The general format will be this: I will begin the customary list-submission thread in which people can post their top 100 songs of 1900-49; top 100 songs of 1950-59; and top 50 albums from the entire era. You’re welcome (and encouraged) to submit lists as long as you’d like, but only the top 100 songs from each era and top 50 albums will garner points. The minimum for songs lists will be 40 songs, and for albums (since some may not have an opportunity to listen to as many albums) will be only 10. The deadline for submitting lists will be October 31st. (I still need to tinker with the formula I’ll use, so I’m open to suggestions!) Multiple versions of songs will be combined, with all artists receiving votes listed, to avoid vote-splitting amongst frequently recorded standards.
2. Unless there is a wave of objections, I plan on including classical music/film scores, since my general inclination is always to be inclusive instead of exclusive. I have read (and reread) Honorio’s incredible presentation of the last 1900-1949 poll and it included just about the widest variety of music I’ve ever seen. If he would’ve chosen to exclude classical music (or any genre) it just wouldn’t have been the same. This way anyone who wishes to exclude classical, etc. for any reason certainly can, but at least it will be represented.
3. I’m also wondering if we really even need to make this a two-part poll. From the looks of things, it was a single stage poll last time based upon calculated list submissions (the way we conduct our all-time polls) and worked out extraordinarily well. I think this would work fine for the fifties and albums portions of the poll, too. (And certainly save me a lot of work!) I would simply calculate the individual lists for both the songs 1900-49 and 1950-59, and all albums, and send them to the (eventual) volunteer for the rollout.
4. I still intend to start a recommendation thread, but I can’t imagine a better one than the results of the previous poll itself that DaveC has already posted a link to above. Honorio’s presentation is beyond fantastic (and makes me very grateful I didn’t volunteer for the rollout, since I couldn’t come close to the heart and dedication that went into his!). This will be the source I primarily use for my own list. I do think that the new recommendation thread would be a great place for people to submit their preliminary lists, giving everyone a chance to explore before posting their own.
5. Finally (and this will likely be the most controversial thought I have), would everyone be okay with compiling the 1900-1949 songs portion of the poll the same way Daniel did the Christmas songs this year? My fear is that there haven’t been a lot of “discoveries” of pre-1950s music for many of the voters from that first poll, so they aren’t likely to participate again, since their lists would look essentially the same. (Of the “Magnificent 7” that Honorio references, only sonofsamiam has posted in this thread, although all have been regular posters since I joined the forum.) To exclude these incredible lists simply because the knowledgeable people who created them didn’t have anything new to add just doesn’t seem right to me. This way, if we’re fortunate enough to have someone like sonofsamiam post an updated list, that’s great! However, if Honorio and others don’t wish to basically regenerate their lists from not too long ago, then at least their extensive expertise of this era will still be represented. I’m really hoping people will agree with me about this point in particular, because I can’t imagine not including the lists of these legendary AM forum members. (Just take a look at Mindrocker’s list, for example!) The fifties and albums polls would be based solely upon newly submitted lists, since I do anticipate a slightly larger turnout for this portion.

Needless to say, I don’t expect the same level of participation that we typically have in our polls. Overall, this is a younger forum; and many members simply aren’t going to have the same interest in music from this period as others, which is completely understandable. After repeatedly reading through Honorio’s presentation, I nearly backed out of hosting this poll, since it almost feels like that list should be the definitive, final word on this era. However, I do know there has been some expressed interest in doing this; and many (including myself) who didn’t have the opportunity to participate in the last poll are looking forward to the opportunity to explore this great musical period and make a lot of terrific discoveries. Please let me know your thoughts/concerns, and I will get the ball rolling later this week.

Thanks, everyone!

[babydoll]

Okay, I cannot access the 1900-1949 poll and the 1950s poll in its entirety. I only can see the lists submissions for the 1950-1952 poll. If someone can direct me towards the entire thing to gather some recommendations, I would love it.

[Listyguy]

Multiple versions of songs will be combined, with all artists receiving votes listed, to avoid vote-splitting amongst frequently recorded standards.

Is that for both polls or just the 1900-1949 poll? I feel like it would be wrong to combine Big Mama Thornton's "Hound Dog" with Elvis' for example.

[jamieW]

Good question, Listyguy. It would only be for the 1900-1949 poll. You gave a good example of why I didn't want to do it for the fifties poll. (Another off the top of my head would be "Blue Suede Shoes," by Carl Perkins and Elvis.)

Babydoll: aren't you able to access the 1900-49 poll via the link DaveC provided?

[babydoll]

Oh, there's a link in this thread! Yeah, I was trying to access it through the History of AM Forum Polls, but I couldn't access it through there.

Is there a thread for the 1950s poll (especially the albums part) that someone can upload?

[Honorio]

No time right now to write on the thread the many things I want to say (especially about rules, elegibility, different versions, original albums vs. compilations, etc...).
Only three quick comments for now and I'll come back later:

1. Many many thanks JamieW for your kind comments about my presentation of 2011, I'm proud of what we did then and I have fond memories of that (and in general of the Forum back then, even if the Forum right now is equally awesome). I got plans to post on the new Forum that thread, updating the pictures and Youtube links (almost all of them have disappeared). But I got no time right now, maybe in May.

2. Here are the links for the 1950s Songs Poll:
http://pub37.bravenet.com/forum/static/ ... 9&cmd=show
and the Albums Poll:
http://pub37.bravenet.com/forum/static/ ... 4&cmd=show

3. I will participate on the new poll, you can count on me. I will also participate on the recommendation thread and I got plans also to make a playlist of the Top 500 songs of 1900-1949 of the 2011 Poll. For now I've added only the Top 10 but I'll keep adding songs on the next months…

[jamieW]

Thanks so much, Honorio. The main reason I want to include the lists from the original poll if people aren’t able to participate is that I’m in awe of those individual lists and want to make sure they are well-represented. I just didn’t want those that contributed lists last time to feel obligated to participate this time – especially people like you, who have already expressed what a busy year it will be for you.

To hear that you will not only participate, but also be updating the links from the 2011 poll and even adding a Top 500 playlist is so much more than I ever could’ve asked. But, again, don’t feel obligated if you do become too busy. I understand and appreciate that family and work needs to come first, so I’m just extremely thankful for anything you are able to do. I also look forward to any ideas/suggestions you have to offer whenever you do have the time.

[Brad]

My fear is that there haven’t been a lot of “discoveries” of pre-1950s music for many of the voters from that first poll, so they aren’t likely to participate again, since their lists would look essentially the same. (Of the “Magnificent 7” that Honorio references, only sonofsamiam has posted in this thread, although all have been regular posters since I joined the forum.)

Just an FYI - I absolutely plan on submitting lists for this. And I'm quite certain they will be much different than my lists from 5 years ago.

Thanks for picking this up jaimeW!

[jamieW]

My fear is that there haven’t been a lot of “discoveries” of pre-1950s music for many of the voters from that first poll, so they aren’t likely to participate again, since their lists would look essentially the same. (Of the “Magnificent 7” that Honorio references, only sonofsamiam has posted in this thread, although all have been regular posters since I joined the forum.)

Just an FYI - I absolutely plan on submitting lists for this. And I'm quite certain they will be much different than my lists from 5 years ago.

Thanks for picking this up jaimeW!

It's absolutely my pleasure, Brad. And thank you for participating again - I'm looking forward to your new list!

[Dan]

Thanks very much for doing this, jamieW. Three or four years ago I listened to individual songs lists for that 1900-1949 poll that took place in the old forum, as well as lists for the 1950s poll (they can be accessed from here)... and it was definitely one of my most rewarding experiences since joining the forum. I've listened to lots of other pre-1960s music, but I feel that there's quite a lot I haven't explored yet, and I'm looking forward to doing that over the next few months. I'm really pleased that most of the people who participated in the previous poll have said that they will participate again, and it's nice that there will seemingly be a larger amount of participants this time round.

I don't usually include classical music in polls whose main focus is popular music, but I think I'll just have to get over it for this.

[jamieW]

Glad to hear you'll be participating, Dan! (Given your love of classical and world music, I was hoping you would.) I enjoy all of our forum polls, but the ones I look forward to the most are those that will expose me to the largest variety of previously unheard music (such as the World Cup and unacclaimed games). I've already started exploring the lists from the last poll; and, as much as I thought I had a pretty decent knowledge of this era, there are so many great songs that are entirely new to me.

I understand the concerns some have about including classical music, but part of what I love about the previous poll was the incredible variety. Our forum polls always seem to produce eclectic lists that cannot be found anywhere else. I remember sonofsamiam commenting on how great it was to see William Parker and Justin Bieber back-to-back in our year end poll. I think it's safe to say something like that could only happen on the AMF, which is one of many reasons why I love this site so much!

[Charlie Driggs]

My fear is that there haven’t been a lot of “discoveries” of pre-1950s music for many of the voters from that first poll, so they aren’t likely to participate again, since their lists would look essentially the same. (Of the “Magnificent 7” that Honorio references, only sonofsamiam has posted in this thread, although all have been regular posters since I joined the forum.)

As far as I am concerned, the opposite is true. I can hardly wait to dive into these decades and make a lot of new discoveries.

[luney6]

Most likely, I'll be participating. Thanks for hosting, jamieW!

[jamieW]

More great news! Thanks, Charlie Driggs & luney6. (I think I might have been a little pessimistic thinking that the participants of the first poll may not participate again in this one. I guess I just looked at those amazing lists and thought to myself "What more could they have to hear?" I should know from experience that there's always more to hear and shouldn't have spoken for others. I just wanted to throw the possibility of including the lists of the non-participants out there so I didn't suddenly try to change the rules down the line.)

I will be busy over the next couple of days, but plan on creating the recommendation and submissions threads (with the general rules we've discussed) Sunday. If somebody wants to create the recommendation thread in the meantime, that would be fine. I fear my rather bland introduction to this great era will pale in comparison to those we're used to seeing!

[Bruno]

Bruce would love to make these lists

By the way, you guys can count on me

[babydoll]

Bruce would love to make these lists

By the way, you guys can count on me

At least this poll would be more peaceful! And diverse!

[Bruno]

At least this poll would be more peaceful! And diverse!

Agreed!

[sonofsamiam]

Jamie, I've got a question about this -- I was getting all psyched up to throw down a big list in the recommendations thread, and realized a weird loophole -- we talked about counting votes for songs together, even if there were multiple performers. Here is my problem -- in many cases I have favorite songs that were standards written prior to 1950, but where my favorite performances are post-1950. Here are a few examples:

Ev'ry Time We Say Goodbye (written in 1944, Ella Fitzgerald version in 1956)
Time After Time (1947, Chet Baker version in 1954)
But Not for Me (1930, Chet again in 1954)
My Funny Valentine (1937, Chet yet again, in '54)
All of Me (1931, Esquivel version in 1959)
I Only Have Eyes for You (1934, ubiquitous Flamingos version in 1959)
I've Got You Under My Skin (1936, Sinatra in 1956)
Don't Get Around Much Anymore (1943 by Duke Ellington, great in its own right, even better by Ella in 1957)
Love Is Here To Stay (1938, Ella & Louis in 1957)
One for My Baby (and One More for The Road) (1943, Sinatra in 1958)
Come Rain or Come Shine (1946, Ray Charles in 1959)
I Get a Kick Out of You (1936, Clifford Brown/Max Roach instrumental in 1954)
Summertime (1935 in Porgy and Bess, Sarah Vaughan in 1950)
Little Girl Blue (1935, Nina Simone in 1957)
His Eye is on the Sparrow (1905, Mahalia Jackson in 1951)

And there are more...you get the picture. Any thoughts on how to handle? Recommend as standards in the 00-49 thread, and vote for performances in the '50s? I hate to split votes up for some of these greats, though a few may do fine by themselves in the '50s (I've Got You Under My Skin, I Only Have Eyes for You, My Funny Valentine).

[jamieW]

Jamie, I've got a question about this -- I was getting all psyched up to throw down a big list in the recommendations thread, and realized a weird loophole -- we talked about counting votes for songs together, even if there were multiple performers. Here is my problem -- in many cases I have favorite songs that were standards written prior to 1950, but where my favorite performances are post-1950. Here are a few examples:

Ev'ry Time We Say Goodbye (written in 1944, Ella Fitzgerald version in 1956)
Time After Time (1947, Chet Baker version in 1954)
But Not for Me (1930, Chet again in 1954)
My Funny Valentine (1937, Chet yet again, in '54)
All of Me (1931, Esquivel version in 1959)
I Only Have Eyes for You (1934, ubiquitous Flamingos version in 1959)
I've Got You Under My Skin (1936, Sinatra in 1956)
Don't Get Around Much Anymore (1943 by Duke Ellington, great in its own right, even better by Ella in 1957)
Love Is Here To Stay (1938, Ella & Louis in 1957)
One for My Baby (and One More for The Road) (1943, Sinatra in 1958)
Come Rain or Come Shine (1946, Ray Charles in 1959)
I Get a Kick Out of You (1936, Clifford Brown/Max Roach instrumental in 1954)
Summertime (1935 in Porgy and Bess, Sarah Vaughan in 1950)
Little Girl Blue (1935, Nina Simone in 1957)
His Eye is on the Sparrow (1905, Mahalia Jackson in 1951)

And there are more...you get the picture. Any thoughts on how to handle? Recommend as standards in the 00-49 thread, and vote for performances in the '50s? I hate to split votes up for some of these greats, though a few may do fine by themselves in the '50s (I've Got You Under My Skin, I Only Have Eyes for You, My Funny Valentine).

It’s indeed a tricky one. My initial thought would be to rank your favorite pre-fifties version in the 1900-49 poll (provided you feel that any of these versions are good enough to make it); and then vote for the 1950’s versions you listed in the fifties poll. I see your point that we’re voting for the songs themselves in the 1900-49 poll and not the artists; so by not voting for your favorite version of these standards (if they were released post-forties) it could adversely affect the ranking of a great standard. However, I just don’t see any easy way to transport versions recorded in the 1950s to a previous era.

As I said, I’m going to be very flexible with this, so you’re free to use your own judgment. But, using my way of thinking, you could rank Duke Ellington’s “Don’t Get Around Much Anymore,” in the 1900-49 poll, and then rank your preferred Ella version even higher in the 1950s poll. And, as another example, you could abstain from voting for the Porgy and Bess version of “Summertime” in the 1900-49 poll (if you didn’t feel it was worthy); and then vote for Sarah Vaughan’s version in the 1950’s poll.

Please let me know if you think this would be a fair way to go.

[jamieW]

Sonofsamiam - after rereading your question this morning, I'm not sure I even answered it, since it sounds like your asking about how to handle posting your recommendations and not how to vote for the songs themselves. Since the recommendations thread is all-encompassing, you can post as many versions of a song as you like. I don't think this will cause any vote-splitting between the 1900-49 and 1950s polls since, as you said, many of the 50s versions you listed are going to do quite well regardless. I'm also not averse to people who vote in the 1900-49 poll to list multiple artists, if there are a couple of different versions they like almost equally.

Hopefully, I've answered your question. Since I first read your post yesterday when I got home after a long day at work; and then reread it this morning when I'm still groggy and about to go to work, I may not be picking the best times of the day to attempt to answer questions...

[sonofsamiam]

Sonofsamiam - after rereading your question this morning, I'm not sure I even answered it, since it sounds like your asking about how to handle posting your recommendations and not how to vote for the songs themselves. Since the recommendations thread is all-encompassing, you can post as many versions of a song as you like. I don't think this will cause any vote-splitting between the 1900-49 and 1950s polls since, as you said, many of the 50s versions you listed are going to do quite well regardless. I'm also not averse to people who vote in the 1900-49 poll to list multiple artists, if there are a couple of different versions they like almost equally.

Hopefully, I've answered your question. Since I first read your post yesterday when I got home after a long day at work; and then reread it this morning when I'm still groggy and about to go to work, I may not be picking the best times of the day to attempt to answer questions...

Actually, you answered it precisely well the first time. I think this makes a ton of sense, and I was leaning in this direction all along. Mostly, I wanted to post about it here to clarify things for any others that will be voting.

[jamieW]

Glad to hear it, sonofsamiam! Funny how I can have two different interpretations of a question from night to morning. (This afternoon, I made myself a cup of coffee before checking into the forum, just to make sure I'm alert.)

[nicolas]

hi everybody !
Great thread !
I won't be able to participate in these polls the way I did a few years ago, because I'm waaaaaaay more busy than back then. But of course you can use my 1900-49 list, that hasn't changed much since.
Maybe I'll post new lists, especially for the 50's , as I've been discovering new stuff since.
Good luck and congratulations for hosting this !

[jamieW]

hi everybody !
Great thread !
I won't be able to participate in these polls the way I did a few years ago, because I'm waaaaaaay more busy than back then. But of course you can use my 1900-49 list, that hasn't changed much since.
Maybe I'll post new lists, especially for the 50's , as I've been discovering new stuff since.
Good luck and congratulations for hosting this !

Great to hear from you, nicolas! I'll gladly use your previous list if you don't have time to make a new one. (You were one of the people I had in mind when I said I wanted to use the previous lists, since it's a great list and I remembered you'd said before how busy you are now.) Best of luck with everything, and I look forward to your new 50s list if you do have time.

[Brad]

Bumping this to keep it on our minds...