AMF All-Time Film Poll (Submissions closed)

BleuPanda · Post by **BleuPanda** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:39 pm

Just wanted to remind everyone who might not visit the other forum frequently, we are doing our all-time film list, and your ballots are due March 15th at midnight CST. Find more information here:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3356

BleuPanda · Post by **BleuPanda** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:17 pm

There's only 10 days left to send in a list; I only have 6 people so far.

Maschine_Man · Post by **Maschine_Man** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:46 pm

I have a list, I'm just trying to catch a few more before I submit!

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:02 pm

I will submit a list too, hastily trying to watch a few more films so I won't submit until the last day.

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:36 pm

Also trying to watch as many films as I can before the deadline.

BleuPanda · Post by **BleuPanda** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:58 pm

Because I have a self-imposed writing deadline of March 11, I'm not going to actually work on finalizing the results until after that day. As such, the new deadline to submit your list is going to be March 15!

BleuPanda · Post by **BleuPanda** » Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:56 pm

1 week remains!

BleuPanda · Post by **BleuPanda** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:45 am

3 days, gonna start adding the lists tomorrow; can I get a show of hands of people who plan to participate? I'm really hoping you're all waiting for the last day, because this really hasn't gotten much participation.

Live in Phoenix · Post by **Live in Phoenix** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:56 pm

I should be able to

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:09 pm

BleuPanda wrote:3 days, gonna start adding the lists tomorrow; can I get a show of hands of people who plan to participate? I'm really hoping you're all waiting for the last day, because this really hasn't gotten much participation.

I've accepted that I probably won't be able to watch any more movies, so at this point I'm just writing comments. I will definitely submit a list though.

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:17 pm

I'm gonna submit one too.

Nassim · Post by **Nassim** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:25 pm

BleuPanda wrote:3 days, gonna start adding the lists tomorrow; can I get a show of hands of people who plan to participate? I'm really hoping you're all waiting for the last day, because this really hasn't gotten much participation.

I will ! Only going to rank 85 movies though... (I have seen 3 new ones a week those past few weeks, but I start from the bottom).

Maschine_Man · Post by **Maschine_Man** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:52 pm

Nick wrote: I've accepted that I probably won't be able to watch any more movies, so at this point I'm just writing comments. I will definitely submit a list though.

Same situation. I have the next three days off so it's going to be done by Monday night.

Otisredding · Post by **Otisredding** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:46 am

I sent my list.

Thank you, BleuPanda

BleuPanda · Post by **BleuPanda** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:11 pm

Currently have lists from:
BleuPanda
bonnielaurel
bootsy
Gillingham
Live in Phoenix
OtisRedding
Petri
whuntva

BleuPanda · Post by **BleuPanda** » Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:58 pm

Received 4 more lists last night from:
luney6
Emilien
Dexter
Chilton

Michel · Post by **Michel** » Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:12 pm

Just sent mine.

BleuPanda · Post by **BleuPanda** » Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:19 pm

3 more:
Maschine_Man
Michel
Nick

Bringing us to 15!

BleuPanda · Post by **BleuPanda** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:04 pm

Last day to vote! Have your list to me, by, well...it's not like I'll actually start posting the results until tomorrow evening and adding a properly formatted list takes less than 2 minutes, so any time before 5 CST on March 16.

I've received lists from 2 more users:
Midaso
Nassim

acroamor · Post by **acroamor** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:41 pm

I plan on submitting, but I'm about to be a plane for ten hours and won't have access to a computer. I should be able to get it in by your 16th at 5 deadline though.

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:55 pm

Would it be fine, if, before the deadline, I rebsmit my list? I just saw the Thin Red Line and on want to place it on there, at number 6.

BleuPanda · Post by **BleuPanda** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:36 pm

That would be an easy fix. If that's the only change, no need to resubmit the entire thing.

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:42 pm

BleuPanda wrote:That would be an easy fix. If that's the only change, no need to resubmit the entire thing.

Yes, that is the only change. Thanks a lot BleuPanda!

BleuPanda · Post by **BleuPanda** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:19 am

19 contributors...I really hope some of you are waiting until the last minute, because I know we can do better than this, and each additional list makes this better.

I have lists from 18 users:
BleuPanda
bonnielaurel
bootsy
Chilton
Dexter
Emilien
Gillingham
Greg
Live in Phoenix
luney6
MaschineMan
Michel
Midaso
Nassim
Nick
OtisRedding
Petri
whuntva

Plus one list I need some issues cleared up on from:
MrMooney88

BleuPanda · Post by **BleuPanda** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:44 am

Also, rant because this is really bothering me:
I really hate the amount of negativity in these comments. This is supposed to be a celebration of our 250 favorite films, but these really, really bring the atmosphere down. These films have been hand-selected by the users of this forum over the course of a few years, and the last thing I want is a film simply summarized by 'yawn.' It's kind of a bummer to put effort into a list that represents our top films of all time and then have to add a bunch of comments where someone explains how they actually hate it. We can do better than this; how many 'best of all time' lists have you read where the only arguments for some entrants are negative?

I understand when it's a rather arbitrary top 10 from each year; some years are weaker than others and a weak film can slip in every once in a while. But, when it's something like this, all you really need to do to show your disapproval is your low ranking. There's literally a film in the top 10 here with 2 negative comments. What's the point? Happy your favorite movie did well? Never mind that, here's two people to make you feel bad about it.

I understand wanting your voice heard, but there's a time and a place. This is like protesting at a child's birthday party; I don't care how fat and obnoxious you think the kid is, this is supposed to be his day in the spotlight. Maybe, I don't know, bring him a present, even if you have to find it at the gas station on the drive over.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:19 am

While I understand where you're coming from, I respectfully disagree, Bleu.

I see no problem with negative comments. We shouldn't be afraid to express our feelings about the movies in this poll, so long as it's done in a respectful manner. I've added a decent number of negative comments in my post, and there's only 1 comment where I believe I did not keep the tone respectful. I think it would be pretty boring if we only used the comments section to praise movies, not to criticize them. Are our only options to praise or remain silent? If someone were to respectfully put a negative comment about one of my favorite movies, I wouldn't "feel bad" about it. I would take it as an opportunity to see the movie from another point of view. Movies aren't children, they don't need to be coddled.

BleuPanda · Post by **BleuPanda** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:31 am

You really don't see a problem when a positive list only expresses negative opinion for a grand portion of it? What does that say about the art of film? One person's comments read like the troll posts from a youtube video, something I'd expect to receive from Bruce. If there was a supportive argument followed up with a short rebuttal, that would make sense. But so many of these films have no comments or, worse, a sole negative point.

What's going to happen, naturally, is I'm going to feel compelled to write my own positive review of every film on this list so we can have a reminder of why we're including it in the first place. To do anything else would be disrespectful.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:40 am

I suppose there's a problem if the negative comments greatly outweigh the positive ones. But at the same time, I'd rather have an honest reflection of the thoughts of the users on this forum than praise or nothing. Great art is always going to have a lot of divisive reactions.

Anyway, I understand your frustrations even if I don't fully agree. If you felt that any of my comments were too "low effort" or my criticism wasn't respectful, feel free to remove the offending comment of mine. I'm sure you can use your discretion to tell which of my comments went against decorum.

BleuPanda · Post by **BleuPanda** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:12 am

See, the problem is, because I suffer from severe anxiety and a compulsive need to analyze film (and therefore have overreactions when I see someone insult a film while seemingly missing why it's considered culturally relevant in the first place), one of these things is going to happen:

1) I'm going to literally attempt to write a significant write-up for each of the films I have seen arguing for its inclusion, which will drag the process of this list out a few months, and I really don't have the time to do that, or

2) Post the list with the minimal effort possible, because at this point it feels like nothing but the results actually mean anything to anyone else, or

3) Remove the comment section entirely, because it would be too biased to pick out the bad ones, but then everyone would hate me, or

4) Just disappear from the site, because I don't know how to make this actually presentable and the other three options are triggering a fight or flight response, or,

5) Option 1, but I recruit other members to divide the films up evenly so we can have a nice section for each film to make this look like a legitimate list with thought put into each choice. That way the negative comments can exist as reactions to the inclusion instead of the sole statement.

This list, as it stands, doesn't look right to me. At least a few of us like each of the films on the list or else they wouldn't be there. If we can't do something for the full list, I'd at least want the top 100 to be covered.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:27 am

Perhaps posting the list as is, and then letting the forumers comment on the comments? Again, feel free to remove any of my comments that you thought didn't follow decorum. But I do feel that most of my negative comments were written respectfully.

Live in Phoenix · Post by **Live in Phoenix** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:50 am

Scenario 5, or the scenario after Scenario 5, sounds good.

==============================================

To put it on record, my top 10 list, in 2022:
1. Star Wars
2. The Man Who Fell to Earth
3. It's a Wonderful Life
4. Raiders of the Lost Ark
5. A Christmas Story
6. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring
7. Monty Python and the Holy Grail
8. The Princess Bride
9. Pee-Wee's Big Adventure
10. Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom

BleuPanda · Post by **BleuPanda** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:52 am

I'm going to create a topic on the film forum to get people to volunteer. Go post there if you're interested.

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:00 am

Yes, good idea BleuPanda. I was actually about to volunteer myself to help you write good comments when I saw your original post, after I returned from school (and now I have.). Basically, it's not like all the films on the list are hand-picked great films. The list has been selected by us and people like us, who are capable of making mistakes in their understanding of a movie (I know I am). Hence, negative comments are actually good, but only as long as they have something to say, or raise valid points as to why a movie is bad. They shouldn't just say, 'This movie doesn't stick with me". That is of no relevance to anyone else.

Edit: I didn't see that the assistance topic was already up on the film board, else I would've posted there. Sorry.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:15 am

I think BleuPanda is disappointed by the comments because they were not well-crafted and thus appears overtly negative. I think the problem is it takes time to rank these films and longer time to comment on them. I suggest we tackle each film by rank one by one and offer our opinions one by one too so as to not delay the revelation of the results.

My suggestion is for BleuPanda to post the rankings one by one (or better five by five or ten by ten) and post the top forumers who picked the movie as their best or worst and let them post their comments on why they rated the movie as such. Of course, it's in the forumers discretion to post his/her comments, but I am pledging to post mine.

For example: BleuPanda revealed that Citizen Kane is the Top 3 movie of all time. Let's assume I voted it as my 201st movie of all time. I'm one of the forumers who watched Citizen Kane and voted it in/near the bottom. Nick and luney6 also ranked Citizen Kane at 198 and 189, respectively. Then we 3 will post our (hopefully constructive and insightful) criticisms about Citizen Kane. I'll say "While Citizen Kane is a masterpiece in a technical sense the plot is paper thin blah blah blah", Nick says "the film is too much in love with itself blah blah blah" and luney6 says "overrated blah blah blah". Of course on the other hand those who had it as the top movie, say Maschine_Man, Mischel, Nick state "it revolutionized cinema blah blah blah", "visually stunning blah blah blah", "ahead of its time blah blah blah".

Gillingham · Post by **Gillingham** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:40 pm

Personally, I appreciate negative comments about as much as positive comments. I think it's interesting to see a negative opinion of a film I love. Could be the start of a great discussion. As long as some effort and/or explanation is put in the comments, and not just 'yawn', 'boooooring', or 'THIS SUCKS!!!'. But I wasn't too afraid of that. Wrongly maybe?

Then again, I can understand that it can be off-putting for the compiler of the list to see too many negative comments. I don't know the ratio of positive/negative comments and more importantly the nature of the negative ones, so it's hard to judge this.

BleuPanda · Post by **BleuPanda** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:44 pm

I brought up the "yawn" thing because it's literally the only comment for one of the movies. And there's quite a bit of "this movie sucks" either without any real commentary or that seemingly avoids mentioning why people talk about the film. No one's presenting "Mad Max: Fury Road" or "Star Wars" as major achievements in acting, and you've clearly missed something if you walk away from the latter thinking it "will undoubtedly be forgotten in time." I honestly can't imagine someone making that sort of claim without trolling; there are so many resources to explain why Star Wars is such an important film that even if you don't enjoy it, you should easily be able to understand why it has left an impact, and even just the idea of 'it will be forgotten' is infuriatingly disconnected from reality. Yes, clearly, the film that kicked off one of the biggest media franchises of all-time, one so big its seventh entrant has become the third best-selling movie of all time, will just fade off the face of the earth. It's completely absurd and adds nothing.

And, really, it mostly comes down to the fact that a lot of these negative comments (and even some positive ones) made me realize something: it feels like there are people here who have missed the fact that film is a visual medium. Only commenting on the acting or narrative in a film is sort of akin to talking about nothing but the lyrics when discussing a song. Most of the films with 'simple' narratives, which some might feel the need to insult because they're not 'deep' enough, are there to frame an experiment in visual design; and, no, when I say visual design, I'm not talking about special effects. Citizen Kane didn't become 'the greatest film ever made' because of Welles' performance as Kane; it has always been about the cinematography. It's one of those things where we spend years being taught how to read books, and so many people approach film with the same logic: the dialogue, the characters, the story. True, some films manage to succeed entirely based on those concepts, but there are many that don't care about any of that, and they have reason to not care: characters, dialogue, and even narrative are completely unnecessary when making a film. Certainly the ones that choose not to tend to fall in the experimental range, but if you only ever talk about the plot, how would you even begin to criticize a work like Koyaanisqatsi or The Man With a Movie Camera? Would you even be able to wrap your head around why they exist, or would you just walk off thinking they were pointless films because they didn't bother to meet your arbitrary standards?

It comes down to the point where genre films are treated as 'shallow' when it seems clear certain people are trying to watch them as if they were contemporary dramas. Certain genres are 'read' different ways, and choosing to read them the wrong way says a lot more about you than it does the film. And, really, it does a disservice to the medium when you make a point to ignore the elements that make film its own medium.

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:52 pm

I was hoping someone would raise this point for that one movie BleuPanda (and the other one too, actually, but less so). I understand very well that film is primarily a visual medium. I had a very very firm discussion ready for this. On the other hand, you haven't told me why the film is good. I'll bring it up when the results come out. Please tell me again then.

BleuPanda · Post by **BleuPanda** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:04 pm

I'll plan to then (or for whoever claims it, since I'm sure there's people who like Star Wars more than I do). That's also another reason: if someone really has no idea why we like *insert film here*, it would be nice to have a reason ready built into the presentation.

BleuPanda · Post by **BleuPanda** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:39 pm

This is the last call. An hour and 20 minutes remain; if you tell me you're planning to submit, I'll wait, but otherwise this is it.

We have 20 lists, a fairly good number.

BleuPanda · Post by **BleuPanda** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:00 pm

Submissions are closed.

BleuPanda · Post by **BleuPanda** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:52 pm

I have begun posting the results, by the way.