World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

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Jeff
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World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by Jeff »

As I get older musical discovery for me becomes not only about finding something new, but also about finding something that sounds different from what I am familiar with. Often, this means trying to get into music from foreign countries, which can be daunting. Thus, I would like to hold a game akin to the foreign world cup's the forum had a few years ago to discover more 'world music,' but with a different twist. I want the game to be in a World Cup format, where nations compete against other nations featuring different songs each round. The problem with the artist vs. artist or song vs. song format we tend to use is that after the first round you are familiar with all of the music in the tournament. By using nation vs. nation, this game avoids that and offers a good chance to discover new music each round.

Here's how it works: A member selects a country and prepares a list of songs by artists from that nation. Next, selected nations are placed in groups to compete against one another, with half advancing to knockout stage. It's very similar to the World Cup game held last summer in that it follows the format of the FIFA World Cup (hopefully with less corruption and migrant worker deaths, although PM me if you're offering bribes :whistle: ).

To participate as a team manager, post at least one and up to two nation that you are willing to select songs for. Note that once someone lists a country as their first or second selection that country is unavailable for anyone else to choose. Ideally, I do not want any person doing more than two nations (I worry it would be too much of a burden). If there is not enough participation for 32 teams, the game proceeds with 16 or 24 teams.

At some point before the game starts, message me your song selections with YouTube links in the order you want them to appear. If your tracks are not available on YouTube, make sure that they can be heard elsewhere. Brief comments about each track are encouraged, but not required. That's it! I hope to get the game started in a month or two after some of the other games and polls wind down and I have more free time from work (which should give people extra time to work on their playlists).

Selected Teams (second number indicates the max number of teams allowed from each continent):
Africa (4/7)
- Ghana [Jeff]
- Mali [Dan]
- South Africa [Dan]
- Zimbabwe [DaveC]
Asia (3/7)
- India [luney6]
- Israel [bonnielaurel]
- Japan [Jeff]
Europe (7/9) [Note that the UK is broken up into its constituent units for this game]
- Belgium [spiritualized]
- France [Romain]
- Germany [luney6]
- Italy [spiritualized]
- Portugal [bonnielaurel]
- Russia [BITUSSR]
- Spain [Honorio]
Oceania (1/1)
- New Zealand [DaveC]
North America (3/5)
- Canada [DocBrown]
- Cuba [Blanco]
- Mexico [Blanco]
South America (2/3)
- Argentina [Honorio]
- Brazil [sonofsamiam]

Please try to have your song lists submitted to me by December 31st.

Links:
Smithsonian Folkways – A bit more academic than the others with lots of field recordings and accompanying essays by ethnomusicologists. If you cannot find anything from your nation on the other labels, I'm nearly certain Smithsonian will have you covered. The website features a helpful 'browse by country' tab that could help you get ideas about which country to pick or to fill out your song roster.

Nonesuch – Famed for their world music Explorer Series, each focusing on different styles and regions.

World Music Network – Their Rough Guide series is similar to Nonesuch's Explorer Series, though usually not held in as high esteem for whatever reason. Here's a wiki list of all their albums for sorting purposes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_R ... ide_albums

Soundways Records – Most famous for their Africa Special series, but they release comps from elsewhere too.

Freaky Trigger Pop World Cup – Where I'm stealing this idea from. Feel free to recycle choices if you need to!

I know this is of niche interest, but it looks like there are at least a few other people in the forum who would be interested in exploring music from different countries or, in some cases, promoting the music of their own country. Of course, if there's not enough interest in the game, I can go back to attempting to discover new music on my own time.
Last edited by Jeff on Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:07 pm, edited 13 times in total.
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by Jeff »

Song Selection Rules
* I am hoping to have each nation's playlist in by December 31st. Let me know if anyone needs more time.
* Each nation needs seven songs (three for the group stage and then one for each knockout round, assuming it advances that far). An additional song designated to be used in instances of a draw in knockout rounds is recommended.
* No artist can be used more than once.
* Nations are allowed no more than two artists ranked inside the AM top 1000, and no more than four artists inside the AM top 3000. This is to prevent nations like France, Sweden, and Germany from relying solely on stuff we already know.
* Be eclectic! Try to include music from different genres and decades. For smaller countries with less-established recording industries, I will not be too strict with this. However, if, for example, you are doing Germany and are only submitting '70s Krautrock, I will reply with an encouragement to look into some other genres and time periods.
* IMPORTANT: If you select an Anglosphere nation (Australia, Canada, Ireland, New Zealand, the United States, and the constituent countries of the United Kingdom) your songs are restricted to traditional folk and regional music. If you manage one of these, you should be looking at stuff on Smithsonian Folkways or similar labels for ideas. This rule is in place to prevent a USA vs England final with "Like a Rolling Stone" matched against "A Day in the Life." To me, it is far more interesting to have Dakota healing songs vs. English sea-shanties.
* Previous rule aside, I accept all genres for this game, including classical recordings (make sure the composer is from your nation) and field recordings (make sure the people being recorded are from your country).
* Please do not use artists of the diaspora for your song selections. For example, a musician who was born-and-raised in the United States who performs Nigerian music and was born to Nigerian-immigrant parents would be eligible for the United States instead of Nigeria. Basically, an artist needs to be a citizen of the country they are representing.


Other Notes
If you are using Discogs, Rate Your Music, or a similar database to do your search DO NOT FOCUS SOLELY ON STUDIO ALBUMS! Most world music is more readily available in various artist compilations on a particular region or style. Remember that access to recording studios was limited in less-wealthy nations before the digital age, and even some established artists were only able to record a few tracks at a time rather than full-on studio albums.

The number of nations per continent is limited, akin to the FIFA World Cup (I use my own distribution though). For grouping nations into continents, I am using the UN's definitions rather than FIFA's. For example, if you want to submit for Israel or Turkey, it will count as an Asian rather than a European team. Russia counts as Europe, unless you want to focus solely on Siberian music.

Groupings and Match Format
This is in-line with FIFA's World Cup. It is random, but nations are placed in four 'pots' based on their continent from which one team each is drawn into eight groups.

For the group stage, matches are not head-to-head. Instead, voters will select two of the four songs in each group. I know that most people would prefer a 1-4 rank of songs, but most of the other games do that and I want to do something a little different. For each match, the nation with the most votes receives 3 points, second most gets 2, third gets 1, and fourth receives 0. After three matches, the top two from each group advance to the knockout stage, where play becomes head-to-head. The team with the most votes advances. Draws in the group stage split the points of their positions, while draws in the knockout stage will be resolved by a one-day 'penalty shootout,' with another song from each nation being selected (when you submit your list, you can specify an additional song as a designated penalty taker to be used in this scenario, otherwise I use the next song in the lineup). If two teams finish with the same point total in the group stage, ties will be broken first by vote differential, second by total votes, and last by random lot.

Schedule
For the group stage, I plan on posting matchups for two groups (so 8 songs) every 3 days. Voting for each matchup will last 6 days (e.g., the polls for groups A and B will close when the polls for groups E and F open). The knockout stages are 3 days per round (except the round of 16, which will last 6). This seems to be a good way to have enough time to listen to each song while progressing at a brisk pace. Let me know if anyone thinks this is too fast, but I would like to finish the game in about two months.
Last edited by Jeff on Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by Jeff »

While I'm in the area, I'm going to go ahead and post my country list.

1. Ghana – I was already familiar with highlife, but in preparation for this game I have discovered some great Ghanan disco, hip hop, and azonto.
2. Japan


Edit: added my backup list.
Last edited by Jeff on Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by luney6 »

I might as well take India, because, while I don't listen to a lot of music from here, I do listen to some that is good, and other that I don't like much, but may do well.

And the second nation I shall take is Germany.
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by Romain »

I'm, of course, really happy with this great idear. Thanks. :greetings-waveyellow:

I'm OK with all the rules... just one question with this "...If you select an Anglosphere nation ...your songs are restricted to traditional folk and regional music"... why not this rule for all the countries ?
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

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Romain wrote:I'm, of course, really happy with this great idear. Thanks. :greetings-waveyellow:

I'm OK with all the rules... just one question with this "...If you select an Anglosphere nation ...your songs are restricted to traditional folk and regional music"... why not this rule for all the countries ?
For countries like India and Ghana, I doubt many of us know a lot of rock music as well.
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

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I love the idea. However, my leanings are veering towards indie/rock and therefore anglo-centric. I have however listened to a TON of non-English groups, but they still will be very rock oriented (think Mad Capsule Markets for Japan for example, and is this representative of Japanese world music ?). If I applied for a country, it would be leaning heavily towards that genre - would that be a problem ?
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by Jeff »

spiritualized wrote:I love the idea. However, my leanings are veering towards indie/rock and therefore anglo-centric. I have however listened to a TON of non-English groups, but they still will be very rock oriented (think Mad Capsule Markets for Japan for example, and is this representative of Japanese world music ?). If I applied for a country, it would be leaning heavily towards that genre - would that be a problem ?
Pop/Rock music is perfectly fine for non-Anglosphere nations. So if you were doing Japan, you could use stuff like Boredoms and Guitar Wolf (I don't know Mad Capsule Markets, but if they're from Japan they're okay too). Maybe throw in some other genres like J-Pop too though.
Romain wrote:I'm OK with all the rules... just one question with this "...If you select an Anglosphere nation ...your songs are restricted to traditional folk and regional music"... why not this rule for all the countries ?
Like Luney said, non-English pop music is not especially popular around here anyway. Other reasons I'm okay with non-folk for non-Anglo nations is because I want the playlists to be eclectic and I'm not sure how feasible it would be to do just folk music for some countries.
Last edited by Jeff on Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by Dan »

Wonderful idea, Jeff. I'll take South Africa. My second choice is Brazil.
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by bonnielaurel »

First choice: Portugal
Second choice: Israel
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by spiritualized »

Ok then
I'd be happy to go for France, but I'll give first refusal to Romain or any Frenchie around here.
Second is Belgium
third is Italy. I have listened to some GREAT rock music from Italy recently
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by Romain »

Spriritualized, I will be happy if, like you propose, I can take France.
PLeeeeeaaaaaaassssssseeee ! Please ! Please ! Please ! Please ! Please ! Please ! :P

And Jeff, really... what a good games it could be.
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by spiritualized »

Good enough for me :) My first choice will then be Belgium (oh Johnny H...) then if possible Italy :) Spain is very tempting too. oh and Andorra.
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by Romain »

Thanks, you make muy day ;-)

Jeff, last question, is it necessary to have words in the song? I hope!
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by Jeff »

Romain wrote:Thanks, you make muy day ;-)

Jeff, last question, is it necessary to have words in the song? I hope!
I won't require the song have lyrics, but at the same time I'd rather no one submit only instrumental songs. Obviously, non-English language songs are encouraged.
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by slick »

I love this idea and would be interested in checking out some new music and voting only...
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by sonofsamiam »

I will take Brazil, but if Blanco wants it I will happily defer.
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by Jeff »

Remember that you guys can have a list of multiple backup nations in case yours gets picked by someone else (as what just happened to Dan's).
slick wrote:I love this idea and would be interested in checking out some new music and voting only...
Of course you can vote without having submitted a team. However, there's plenty of time before the game starts to simply pick a country and listen to some of its music if you're feeling up to it (no pressure to do so though). No one has selected the United States or England yet, and both would be easy to do even with the folk music restriction. Jamaica is also an obvious choice for someone (reggae, dancehall, ska, etc.).
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by Dan »

Jeff wrote:Remember that you guys can have a list of multiple backup nations in case yours gets picked by someone else
Mali (though I'm sure - and I hope - it's only a matter of time before it gets picked)
Democratic Republic of the Congo
Chile
England
Scotland
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by DaveC »

Tempted as I am to grab Mali, I will volunteer for New Zealand.

I will willingly relinquish my Oceania spot to anyone who covets it as I am more than happy to take an African or Caribbean country. So I'll backup for Zimbabwe.
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by Honorio »

Can I have Argentina?
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by Jeff »

I was afraid the game would struggle to get to 16 nations, but we're almost there after one day (counting everyone's top backup choice).
DaveC wrote:Tempted as I am to grab Mali, I will volunteer for New Zealand.

I will willingly relinquish my Oceania spot to anyone who covets it as I am more than happy to take an African or Caribbean country. So I'll backup for Zimbabwe.
This is great since I was afraid no one would take an Oceanian nation. I was thinking of allowing a single combined Oceania team (as opposed to just a combined Pacific Islands team) that could include one song each from Australia and New Zealand as well as five different island nations/dependencies. I am wholly ignorant of New Zealand folk music (I assume there's some Maori stuff) and wasn't sure if there would be enough for a playlist. If there is then I say go for it, but if you would rather switch to an Oceanian team with a single New Zealand song that's fine too. Great second-choice, by the way.
Honorio wrote:Can I have Argentina?
Of course! You can have Spain too as a second-choice if you're okay with the very real possibility of submitting two song lists.
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by Blanco »

sonofsamiam wrote:I will take Brazil, but if Blanco wants it I will happily defer.
No problem!

I will take Mexico as my first option.
Then Cuba
Chile (But if Dan or someone else prefer this country, I have no problem)
Colombia

I am sure that someone with more knowledge from Spain will choose that option soon.
If someone else like any of my selections, I have no problem giving my choice. There are several other countries to choose. :D I like this game. :D
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by Jeff »

Thanks to Blanco, we're over 16 nations now(counting top backup choices)! I would love for us to make it to 32. To encourage more participation to reach that goal, I have made a brief list of some recommended nations to think about if you want to participate but are not sure where to start. There are several other nations that could also work, so feel free to look elsewhere. These are simply the nations I can personally vouch for to varying degrees

Africa
- Algeria: Rai, with the likes of Khaled and Rachid Taha. Berber folk music as well.
- Cameroon: Currently a hotbed of African pop music (afrobeats in particular). Older stuff includes soukous. It performed well in Freaky Trigger's Pop World Cup.
- DR Congo: Crammed discs Congotronics series focuses specifically on the contemporary style known as tradi-modern. Its releases have appeared on lots of best-of lists from the past decade. Soukous is a popular older style, ranging from the large rumba bands of Grand Kalle & Africa Jazz and Franko & OK Jazz in the '50s and '60s, to faster-paced kwassa kwassa style soukous as practiced by Pepe Kalle and Kanda Bongo Man in the '80s and '90s (these guys' rhythms will sonud very familiar to Vampire Weekend and Talking Heads fans).
- Ethiopia: Most famous for its afro-jazz, as popularized in the West by Allegro's Ethiopiques series. Some of them have appeared on our forum polls in the past.
- Nigeria: Fela Kuti of course, but tons of highlife, afrobeat, synth-funk, and afrobeats (over 32 million views on that one) too. Soundways has several compilations for the more modern stuff, while Smithsonian Folkways covers most of the traditional folk.
- Zambia: '70s Zam-rock attracts a fair bit of media attention, particularly Amanaz, Rikki Ililonga, and WITCH.

Asia
- Cambodia: Reissues of pre-Khmer Rouge pop/rock music were buzzed about over a decade ago. I remember Sinn Sisamouth in particular.
- China: Nonesuch has a few Tibetan music compilations. It's a big country, I'm sure there's something else musical going on there.
- Indonesia: Gamelan has long been an obsession among Western musicians (Debussy, most famously). Nonesuch has several compilations covering it.
- South Korea: Japan-lite, more or less, with some noise, rock, electronic, and K-Pop in addition to folk/court music. I think the general consensus is that K-Pop is better than J-Pop.
- Thailand: Soundways has two eclectic compilations from Thailand
- Turkey: '70s Anatolian rock and Turkish psych were popular in certain circles a few years ago. Also famed for its military drumming.

Europe
All of the Nordic countries are available and each would be fairly easy to manage. The same goes for all the countries of the United Kingdom.

North America
- Canada: Similar to the United States, but on a smaller scale. One of the easiest ones left.
- Jamaica: Has reggae, ska, and dancehall. Probably the easiest nation to manage and likely a favorite to win the competition (not that that should be the objective).
- Panama: Ruben Blades is a major figure and Soundways has several compilations.
- United States: Surprised no one has picked it yet, considering essentially all modern pop/rock music is derived from various US folk musics. The most well-covered nation, with dozens of compilations on things like Appalachian folk, Cajun music, prison/work songs, various forms of gospel, a plethora of American Indian peoples' music, and Polynesian stuff from Hawaii. Harry Smith's classic Anthology of American Folk Music alone could cover it.

South America
- Colombia: Cumbia is quite trendy. Digital cumbia is a more modern take on it, as exemplified by Bomba Estereo who have received lots of press coverage for their recent releases (they even got Will Smith to appear on one of their remixes).


The above was mostly focused on Pop/Rock stuff, but I would like to stress again the Smithsonian Folkways and the Rough Guide series each have several compilations covering all of the above nations with more of a focus on traditional musics.
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

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Jeff wrote:Remember that you guys can have a list of multiple backup nations in case yours gets picked by someone else (as what just happened to Dan's).
slick wrote:I love this idea and would be interested in checking out some new music and voting only...
Of course you can vote without having submitted a team. However, there's plenty of time before the game starts to simply pick a country and listen to some of its music if you're feeling up to it (no pressure to do so though). No one has selected the United States or England yet, and both would be easy to do even with the folk music restriction. Jamaica is also an obvious choice for someone (reggae, dancehall, ska, etc.).
I hear ya, but time restrictions have limited me greatly this past year. I even failed to submit my lists in the yearly polls for the first time in 8 years. I just look forward to discovering some new music I might never have a chance to. Thanks for putting this together.
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by Jeff »

Since things have slowed down I'm going to consider everyone's first backup as a selected nation. If anyone has listed a backup and no longer wishes to do two nations, let me know and I'll remove it from the list. I am aiming for the end of the month to have the song lists done. This is a soft deadline though, and if you need more time I will allow it. There's still plenty of time for others to join in.
slick wrote:I hear ya, but time restrictions have limited me greatly this past year. I even failed to submit my lists in the yearly polls for the first time in 8 years. I just look forward to discovering some new music I might never have a chance to. Thanks for putting this together.
No problem slick. I look forward to your votes.
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by Jeff »

We have stalled at 17 teams (which is more than I was expecting). 17 is a problem for this game as it is an awkward number for a World Cup-style tournament. However, I do not want to remove anyone's backup team from the game in order to get to a more manageable 16. To solve this problem, I have added 15 nations to the tournament that I refer to as 'dummy' teams. These teams lack a manager proper (hence the dummy title).

Here's how they work instead:
* I have (or will soon enough) selected three songs for each—generally two traditional folk songs and one recent pop song. In most cases, I have not heard more than 30 seconds of each song so I apologize in advance for any that are decent for 30 seconds and terrible for the other four minutes.
* Anyone can submit a song for dummy nations, or even a song for multiple dummy nations. This includes both people who are managing two other teams and those who are not managing any. So if you have a favorite Turkish song, PM it to me and it gets added to that nation's playlist (assuming it does not break any of the song selection rules).
* Those who have not signed up for a team can still do so. You can either select one or two of the dummy nations, or one or two other countries (or one of each). Selected non-dummy nations simply replace a dummy nation from its continent.

In effect, the dummy teams are managed by committee. It is likely that a few of them will advance out of the group round and require more than three songs, so any help with them is appreciated.

Dummy Teams:
Algeria
Ethiopia
Nigeria
Indonesia
Iran
South Korea
Turkey
England
Sweden
Jamaica
United States
Colombia

Edit: Removed Canada, Spain, and Russia from dummy teams list.
Last edited by Jeff on Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by spiritualized »

Hi Jeff, I'll probably submit a song for most of these countries, but, as said before, it will definitely have a rock tinge to them. Up until when can I submit those ?
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by Jeff »

spiritualized wrote:Hi Jeff, I'll probably submit a song for most of these countries, but, as said before, it will definitely have a rock tinge to them. Up until when can I submit those ?
That's fine so long as you stick to folk music for England, Canada, and the US. I have a soft deadline for submissions for December 31. Thanks in advance for helping out with some of these.
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by BITUSSR »

I have been using AM for a long time now but haven't really ventured much into the forums, so I just registered because I wanted to participate in this tournament! Sounds like fun. If no one has taken it, I'll take Russia.
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by Jeff »

BITUSSR wrote:I have been using AM for a long time now but haven't really ventured much into the forums, so I just registered because I wanted to participate in this tournament! Sounds like fun. If no one has taken it, I'll take Russia.
Russia's yours. Thanks for participating.
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Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by Jeff »

Bumping this to encourage those who have signed up for a team (or teams) to submit playlists. There's also time for others to sign up for a team as well.

I am hoping to get the game started in mid-January (ideally January 11).
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Location: Edmonton, Canada

Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by DocBrown »

Jeff, I'll submit a list for Canada if you like, but it may be rudderless.
Jeff
Different Class
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Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:46 am
Location: Washington, D.C.

Re: World Music Cup: Up for a 'World Music' Discovery Game?

Post by Jeff »

Bumping to encourage song submissions for the dummy teams. Remember: anyone can submit songs for the dummy teams, regardless of whether or not you are managing a team.

The game itself starts Monday. Based on the playlists and songs submissions I have seen so far, there looks to be lots of incredible music for us to discover!
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