Paris attacks

Pierre · Post by **Pierre** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:06 am

That's a terrible day for the world today. As all of you are now aware, Paris has been victim of terrible terrorist attacks tonight, the most deadly being at an Eagles of Death Metal concert at the Bataclan. Fortunately, I was not in Paris when the attacks occurred. My thoughts go of course to the victims and their families. Apparently, I don't have acquaintances among them, so I guess I should feel somewhat relieved (I don't).

To all the French members of the board, Romain, Nicolas, lagire, Michel and whoever I'm forgetting, please let us know that you're OK.

whuntva · Post by **whuntva** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:26 am

I'm glad you're alright.

I was devastated here in Virginia. It makes me so sad to hear about this on the news.

whuntva · Post by **whuntva** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:26 am

--Dupe. Deleted.--

lagire · Post by **lagire** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:40 am

Yes, i agree with you.
France is an incredible and beautiful country.
This is my country and i'm proud of its values.

All countries of the world should be unified against terrorism.

Henry · Post by **Henry** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:25 am

Perhaps this topic should not be in the music section of the site.

Pierre · Post by **Pierre** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:28 am

Thanks whuntva.
Glad to know you're OK lagire!
Henry, I know it's not necessarily the best place but people don't go often to the general discussion board of the forum, and I want the French members of the forum to see it to confirm that they're OK.

Post by **Henrik** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:35 am

My thoughts go to all French members. I really hope that you, your families, relatives and friends are all ok. /Henrik

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:45 am

I was also really saddened by the news of the attack. It is good to see that you are safe. Hopefully, the other French members are too.

Romain · Post by **Romain** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:17 am

I don't know if I am really OK but I'm here !
Thanks Pierre.

PlasticRam · Post by **PlasticRam** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:19 am

I live in Finland and I'm shook af. All you need is like ten or 20 individuals our of every 100k coming in. It is of course a sad situation cos many are actual refugees. This is just a mess.

My condolences and sorry for the slight hyperbole.

Post by **Honorio** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:42 pm

Dear French friends: I'm so sorry for the nightmare you're in. I just hope that you and your families are well (within the circumstances).

And about the reflexion that Henry did in the off-topic section (I'm posting on both threads) about a solution, I'm afraid there is none. Not even a war, that it' obviously to what they aim for. They are not only provoking the Western nations, both European and American, but also Russia, Asia and mainly the Muslim nations (two days ago 43 people died in Beirut because of a suicide bomber). This is a war we cannot win (just think of Afghanistan or Irak), every war conflict in these countries generates more fanatism. And religious fanatism is the worst cause of a conflict. Nationalist or ideological wars finally end, changing of the borders or the governments (obviously leaving deep wounds on the people). But religious wars never end because fanatics think that there is a supernatural being that justifies it. Some of us (like Henry) would like to think that education and open minded and moderate governments will end that. But I don't think so, I'm too pessimistic about that.

RickMayer · Post by **RickMayer** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:42 pm

Not sure what this means to the UNFCC Conference on Climate Change but Canadians are with the people of France. These actions are despicable and gutless. Be strong Paris!!

jamieW · Post by **jamieW** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:28 pm

I just wanted to add my condolences to our French forum members. You’re all in my thoughts, and I hope you are doing as well as possible under the circumstances. I am honored to participate in a global forum like this and my heart breaks for all of you. Thank you to both Pierre and Henry for starting these threads. Tragedies like this have always been difficult for me to deal with, but it does help to read the thoughtful, caring thoughts from the members of this site. (It’s certainly a welcome relief from some of the terrible comments I’ve seen on the news message boards. Seriously, if I want to hold on to any hope for humanity, I need to stop reading those things.)

Andre · Post by **Andre** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:48 pm

All the strength to you and your friends. One of my sisters was in Paris last night. She just past the border and is now in Belgium on her way home to Holland.

It is really terrible what happened and I agree with you, Honorio, about religious wars never ending. The last years we seem to be in a downward spiral of growing hatred and fear. I refuse to be believe that humans are the most stupid living beings on this earth, even though you might get confirmed once in a while.

I just read that somebody put a piano in or close to the Bataclan and, among others, Imagine from John Lennon is being played. Let that give us hope and bring us humans closer together.

Pierre · Post by **Pierre** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:05 pm

Thanks everyone for the kind words. Romain, glad to know you're doing fine!

I will not involve myself in the debate over human nature; my own opinions on the matter are jaded enough already, so I'm counting of this great community to disprove them.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:49 pm

My sincere sympathy to all our French friends. Despite the fact that I find it deplorable that terrorist attacks like these always get more media coverage when they happen in Western civilizations as opposed to other parts of the world where they happen more frequently, it hit me quite hard this time because of all the lovely French people we have on this forum. I really hope our French friends will be able to move on from this tragedy sooner rather than later.

Besides feeling sad, I also couldn’t help but feel frustrated. I felt frustrated because these attacks happened yet again in the name of religion. Religious people who are not hateful or judgmental (like my wonderful parents and sisters) find consolation in the thought that the vast majority of religious individuals are not extremists. I take comfort in that too – I despise it when outsiders assume that the actions of a few people in a group are in fact the actions of the majority of that group. But for someone like me who do not believe in the existence of a god, who feels certain that religion is a man-made concept, who believes that science and evolutionary biology explain our existence on earth much better than religious texts, and who believes that religious feeling is nothing more than an internal communication between the brain and the body’s nervous system, it is hard to accept that these religious conflicts will keep taking place, as they have for centuries and centuries in the past. But as absolutely horrible as the events that took place in Paris are, they remind me of how lucky we are to be alive, and that we only have one chance to live a meaningful life on this planet before we cease to exist and return to the dust we came from.

Whether people in France and the rest of Europe find religious or non-religious ways to cope with what happened, I really hope that the Western world will not allow those terrorist attacks to negatively influence Western values.

spiritualized · Post by **spiritualized** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:18 pm

Amazing to see that such a horrible act can bring people together. That's what the perpetrators of these attacks hope will not happen and that we will shrivel in a corner. I live 1h30 from Paris, but the Eagles of Death Metal concert could have been one I would have attended.
I just feel so sad for the families of the people hurt or killed in these monstrous acts. No prayers. Religion is at the root of all of this, sadly. STICK TOGETHER.

notbrianeno · Post by **notbrianeno** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:04 pm

Ohio user here. I am very glad to hear that the french members of AM are safe, my thoughts and prayers are with the people of France, Beirut, Baghdad, and Ankara.

jamieW · Post by **jamieW** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:13 pm

spiritualized wrote:Amazing to see that such a horrible act can bring people together. That's what the perpetrators of these attacks hope will not happen and that we will shrivel in a corner. I live 1h30 from Paris, but the Eagles of Death Metal concert could have been one I would have attended.
I just feel so sad for the families of the people hurt or killed in these monstrous acts. No prayers. Religion is at the root of all of this, sadly. STICK TOGETHER.

Spiritualized – please do not pass judgment on all religious people for attacks like these. I don’t believe that the problem is religious beliefs (I have them myself), it is the extreme branches of organized religion. Unfortunately, much of the time, when you unite a large group of like-minded people behind any cause, they are emboldened to react in extreme ways, feeling they are justified and have numbers backing them. It’s a type of safety-in-numbers, mob-mentality, and they believe that their “cause” validates the most despicable of actions. I am religious, but I am also very liberal and accepting, and there are many people like me. I separate myself from people of my own religion who attempt to use it as an excuse to spout hatred toward those who think differently from them, and will always do so. To me, spirituality should be about love and acceptance towards all, and I will pray for those who have been devastated by these and other tragedies, because whichever Entity I pray to would never condone hurting another living being. I do not go to church, mainly because I myself am greatly disturbed by the hypocrisy of much of organized religion, but I do treasure my personal beliefs. I truly hope that I’m not offending anyone, since I completely understand and respect the thoughts, feelings and beliefs of everyone on this forum. But I did want to say that there is a large difference between people who feel the way I do and the religious zealots who have brought so much hurt and damage to the world throughout its history.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:09 pm

Really not sure what to say during something like this, other than to stay safe Parisian AMers. It's times like these that test my faith in humanity, but the overwhelming camaraderie that has come forth since the attacks is more than enough to restore it.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:46 pm

I never know what to say about these things on a public forum. Especially under a sort-of anonymous name. However, I admire the way people here can talk about this tragedy and I wish everyone, inside or outside of France, who was shocked by these attacks all the best.

spiritualized · Post by **spiritualized** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:51 pm

JamesW. I did not pass judgement on religious people. Please read my post again. I pass judgment on religion. I can understand you are feeling hurt by people using religion as a cause to commit these acts. But the fact is religion IS at the root of the clash of civilizations today. The people committing these atrocities claim to act to avenge what is in effect a religious war. However I do appreciate that to the evil side of religion, there is a good side too. It's just a shame there has to be sides.
It may not be the theme we want to have in these forums and for this I apologise. Nick is right... Something stronger will come out of this.

DaveC · Post by **DaveC** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:22 pm

Really sorry for innocent people caught up in this. I'm an anti-Malthusian, a strong believer in humankind and the value of individuals and the positive contribution everyone makes to human society, not in spite of our differences but because of them. Religious wars do end; The wars between Protestants and Catholics have ended. When you look closer these wars are rarely truly about religion, but deeper grievances, sometimes with cause, sometimes without. There are no easy answers, but in the medium term people do realise that violence is not the answer and humankind continues to thrive.

I don't want to upset anyone by saying this, but it does bother me that the media report deaths of innocent people in some parts of the world as being much less notable than those in other places.

jamieW · Post by **jamieW** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:25 pm

spiritualized wrote:JamesW. I did not pass judgement on religious people. Please read my post again. I pass judgment on religion. I can understand you are feeling hurt by people using religion as a cause to commit these acts. But the fact is religion IS at the root of the clash of civilizations today. The people committing these atrocities claim to act to avenge what is in effect a religious war. However I do appreciate that to the evil side of religion, there is a good side too. It's just a shame there has to be sides.
It may not be the theme we want to have in these forums and for this I apologise. Nick is right... Something stronger will come out of this.

Actually, mine was the post I had to read again, and I apologize for the way my first sentence could be interpreted. I didn't mean to imply that you were judging religious people: I just wanted to say that (when you say "no prayers") these and other acts were performed by warped people in the name of religion, and religious people like myself find them deplorable. Unfortunately, these horrible acts are so extreme, and get so much attention from the media, that those of us who use our beliefs to try to make the world a better place could never gain such attention. I just think a strong distinction should be made between personal religious beliefs and organized religion, which I think has been the root of these and many other atrocities throughout history. In no way was I offended by what you said, and I appreciate you taking the time to respond so I could clarify. You are right that, regardless of how awful the tragedy, those who perpetrate it will only cause to make stronger the unification amongst the vast majority of people, regardless of their beliefs.

Jirin · Post by **Jirin** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:06 pm

Religion gives good people an excuse to do good and evil people an excuse to do evil. Nobody to blame but the people.

Something I find a little bit appalling is certain parts of the internet reaction. People are holding up the attacks as a confirmation of their already held opinion. If somebody is pro-gun, they're saying it proves that non-criminals should carry guns all the time to stop the criminals. If somebody is anti-gun, they're saying it proves guns should be banned. If somebody is anti-immigration, they're saying it proves we should wall off the borders. And then all the anti-Islam people. All some people see is an opportunity to self-confirm their own beliefs.

Listyguy · Post by **Listyguy** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:57 pm

Just because these people are killing "in the name of their religion" doesn't mean they are actually in line with their religion. I'm not a Muslim, but the Quran says that people should not kill. If they were actually following the religion they use the name of they would be not be doing these things.

jamieW · Post by **jamieW** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:13 pm

Jirin wrote:Religion gives good people an excuse to do good and evil people an excuse to do evil. Nobody to blame but the people.

Something I find a little bit appalling is certain parts of the internet reaction. People are holding up the attacks as a confirmation of their already held opinion. If somebody is pro-gun, they're saying it proves that non-criminals should carry guns all the time to stop the criminals. If somebody is anti-gun, they're saying it proves guns should be banned. If somebody is anti-immigration, they're saying it proves we should wall off the borders. And then all the anti-Islam people. All some people see is an opportunity to self-confirm their own beliefs.

I agree with 99% of this - especially how people see events as opportunities to confirm their own beliefs. When I made my comment earlier about being disturbed by internet posts, this was largely what I was referring to. One person blamed liberalism for everything and urged people to vote for Donald Trump, since he will wall off the country and deport people. When I saw the comment, it had received nothing but likes and I can't tell you how depressed it made me.

The only area I would slightly disagree with is that I think people sometimes underestimate how religion (depending upon the teachings) can actually keep foolish people from committing evil acts. When I was younger, I had a friend who was involved with gang activity and so many of the bad things associated with it (including, at one point, holding a gun to someone while another gang member broke his legs). Due to his parents, he ended up becoming religious and put his past behind him. However, when I asked him once if he would go back to his previous life if he knew for a fact there wasn't a God, I expected him to at least consider the question. Instead, he instantly said "Hell yes!" and looked at me like I was the one who was insane. (Funny, but whether there's a God or not, I, like most people, would still try to be the best human being I could.) I've since (thankfully) lost touch with that friend, but I never forgot his response - and I'm very thankful that there is something, fictional or not, that keeps him from doing any more harm to others. It's a large reason why I admire the atheists I know who are great people without worrying about what may or may not lie beyond our existence.

spiritualized · Post by **spiritualized** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:38 pm

One thing though.... The level of discussion and sharing is a pleasure to witness here compared to the pits of Facebook...

Pierre · Post by **Pierre** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:19 am

I saw in the album cover quiz that Michel is OK. Any news from Nicolas?

nicolas · Post by **nicolas** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:52 am

I'm OK. I was in Paris when it happened, but far from the places where the attacks occured. I came home by taxi. My brother in law was at the stadium with my nephew but they're OK too.
We're all devastated here. Let me share the words of my friend and musical partner Adam.

"Don't know what to say other than my favourite thing to do in the whole world is to see live music with good friends and last night scores of people were butchered in the city I love doing the thing I love most. I'm devastated and my heart goes out to the families of those at the Bataclan and everywhere else in Paris who have been touched by this atrocity. I will keep going to shows and keep going to shows in Paris. Now so more than ever. The fuckers win when we stop doing what we love because of them."

Petri · Post by **Petri** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:56 am

Nassim was also marked safe on Facebook.

PlasticRam · Post by **PlasticRam** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:05 am

There is actually a music journalist that was killed from a magazine that is a source on AM. This just gets sadder the more connections there are. At least it seems like that to me.

GucciLittlePiggy · Post by **GucciLittlePiggy** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:29 am

Really glad to hear our French forumers and friends are safe. And especially glad to hear people like nicolas's friend maintain such courage in the face of such a cowardly act. His is a mindset I admire deeply. Stay strong Paris.

Pierre · Post by **Pierre** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:35 am

I'm really glad to hear that you and your relatives are OK, Nicolas. I agree, we have to keep on living, or else those criminals will have won.
I didn't know Nassim was in Paris; I thought he was in Belgium. It's great to hear he's fine as well.

PlasticRam, yes, the journalist Guillaume B. Decherf from Les Inrocks was assassinated at the Bataclan. Terrible news. All my thoughs go to his family, friends and the Inrocks staff. R.I.P. Mr. Decherf.

jamieW · Post by **jamieW** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:36 pm

I wanted to apologize to everyone for getting off-topic yesterday. As I said, I struggle with tragedies like this, and tend to go on tangents as I try to make sense of the senseless. When I woke up this morning and thought about my posts, I was embarrassed, since it wasn’t the time or place for my discussion. Then, when I read how close this struck Nicolas, who was in Paris when it happened and actually had relatives at the stadium; and when I saw the photo Pierre posted of Mr. Decherf, who lost his life with so many others, it made me understand this even more deeply. My heart remains with the people of Paris, and I only wish that you, and everyone, never had to go through something so inconceivably painful.

Pierre · Post by **Pierre** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:31 pm

jamieW wrote:I wanted to apologize to everyone for getting off-topic yesterday. As I said, I struggle with tragedies like this, and tend to go on tangents as I try to make sense of the senseless. When I woke up this morning and thought about my posts, I was embarrassed, since it wasn’t the time or place for my discussion. Then, when I read how close this struck Nicolas, who was in Paris when it happened and actually had relatives at the stadium; and when I saw the photo Pierre posted of Mr. Decherf, who lost his life with so many others, it made me understand this even more deeply. My heart remains with the people of Paris, and I only wish that you, and everyone, never had to go through something so inconceivably painful.

Take it easy, jamieW, there's no need to feel embarrassed. You just felt like defending your own religious beliefs, and I think in this difficult context it's understandable (I'm not religious myself, but I don't question people who are, as long as they aren't radicals). Besides, I don't think there is an "ideal" reaction to this kind of tragedy - you used the adverb "inconceivably", and I believe it's appropriate; this is inconceivable. So everyone react the way they can, and that's fine enough

jamieW · Post by **jamieW** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:18 pm

Thank you, Pierre. That is really well said and I really appreciate it.

Jirin · Post by **Jirin** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:48 pm

jamieW wrote:
Jirin wrote:Religion gives good people an excuse to do good and evil people an excuse to do evil. Nobody to blame but the people.

Something I find a little bit appalling is certain parts of the internet reaction. People are holding up the attacks as a confirmation of their already held opinion. If somebody is pro-gun, they're saying it proves that non-criminals should carry guns all the time to stop the criminals. If somebody is anti-gun, they're saying it proves guns should be banned. If somebody is anti-immigration, they're saying it proves we should wall off the borders. And then all the anti-Islam people. All some people see is an opportunity to self-confirm their own beliefs.
I agree with 99% of this - especially how people see events as opportunities to confirm their own beliefs. When I made my comment earlier about being disturbed by internet posts, this was largely what I was referring to. One person blamed liberalism for everything and urged people to vote for Donald Trump, since he will wall off the country and deport people. When I saw the comment, it had received nothing but likes and I can't tell you how depressed it made me.

The only area I would slightly disagree with is that I think people sometimes underestimate how religion (depending upon the teachings) can actually keep foolish people from committing evil acts. When I was younger, I had a friend who was involved with gang activity and so many of the bad things associated with it (including, at one point, holding a gun to someone while another gang member broke his legs). Due to his parents, he ended up becoming religious and put his past behind him. However, when I asked him once if he would go back to his previous life if he knew for a fact there wasn't a God, I expected him to at least consider the question. Instead, he instantly said "Hell yes!" and looked at me like I was the one who was insane. (Funny, but whether there's a God or not, I, like most people, would still try to be the best human being I could.) I've since (thankfully) lost touch with that friend, but I never forgot his response - and I'm very thankful that there is something, fictional or not, that keeps him from doing any more harm to others. It's a large reason why I admire the atheists I know who are great people without worrying about what may or may not lie beyond our existence.

I'm skeptical that if it weren't for religion he wouldn't have turned away from his prior violence. I would bring up Attribution Theory for the reason he thinks if there weren't a God he would go right back. He attributes his lack of violent behavior to religion the same way people might attribute their football team's victory to wearing a green hat: Because they both occurred at the same time.

Isn't it turning up that a lot of the people involved in the attack were French citizens? Not a whole lot a wall would do about that.

PlasticRam · Post by **PlasticRam** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:56 pm

I kind of am of the opinion that for some atheists that are mentally not in a good situation and that know for an absolute certainty that there's no eternal punishment, that might free them to do whatever they want if life has treated them badly. So at least in theory that way religion could have prevented them from doing horrible things.

But actually I kinda got this theory cos once I watched the O'Reilly Factor, so take it with a grain of salt to say the least

Jirin · Post by **Jirin** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:00 am

If an atheist is mentally unstable he may kill people and say "There will be no punishment, so why not?"

If a Christian is mentally unstable he may kill people and say "I'm doing the work of God."

The mental instability is the reason he kills people, and he either attributes it to God or lack of God.

Obviously I'm not religious, but my mother is in the category who goes to church every week even though she doesn't believe in the literal existence of God. (Or she will say 'God is metaphorically all of us!' or things along those lines.) What she gets from church is the sense of community and positive support network. If religion turns people away from violence, I tend to believe it's the sense of community rather than the religious teachings themselves or fear of punishment.

Ever notice that all of the governors who are saying their state will not accept Syrian refugees are the ones who use the strongest Christian rhetoric? "We're such good Christians we TURN AWAY PEOPLE IN NEED!"

Henry · Post by **Henry** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:57 am

What motivates an atheist to kill?

For those who are taught that their faith provides a sole pathway to salvation, there is great passion to ensure their transition to a life of eternal bliss.

We need to reform religions so that teaching of sole pathways can be resisted. This cannot be done solely for Islam but for all religions.

DocBrown · Post by **DocBrown** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:26 am

Henry wrote:We need to reform religions so that teaching of sole pathways can be resisted. This cannot be done solely for Islam but for all religions.

Henry, I recommend "Heretic: Why Islam Needs a Reformation Now" by Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Very well thought out book.

I was raised a Catholic, and left the faith 40 years ago. Since then I have been a practising Buddhist and an atheist (not at all a contradiction in terms). My favourite teaching on the subject is "There is no god, and he created you."

I have also studied the Qu'ran, and I don't believe radical Islam takes any more inspiration from that than the Westboro Baptist Church does from the Bible.

I will not proselytize to anyone, but if I can sum up my understanding of Buddhism, as a non-believer in reincarnation, in just a few words; Do well because it beats the alternative.

Henry · Post by **Henry** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:49 am

Thanks for the recommendation Doc. Hopefully, I'll read the book before the end of the year.

Otisredding · Post by **Otisredding** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:02 am

This is my motto: God is overrated

The God concept is so great that his name can make it bigger ... and most terrible.

God (the concept) is the culprit

Nassim · Post by **Nassim** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:44 am

It's been some very emotional days around here, but among all the horror there are a lot of heartwarming things that people (at least people I know) shows to emphatize, whether it's cops crying in each other arms, a guy bringing a piano with his bike in front of Bataclan to sing Imagine, people still going out, parents explaining the situation to their children in the most tender way possible and of course lots of hommages to people we lost.

But overall we are shocked, January attacks were shocking but in a kind of selfish way it was "them", not us, journalists, jews, cops... we felt angry and hurt in our values but in a way much less threatened. Now it's different, they attacked "everyday people", I've been to the Bataclan about 10 times, I've seen Eagles of Death Metal twice, just 6 days before the attack I was having drinks 100m from the attacks rue de Charonne, my girlfriend wanted us to eat at Le Petit Cambodge some time soon... It feels as much too real, like it could have been me, in places I know and love and surreal, because how the f*** could something so senseless happen (and also because thanksfully I wasn't there nor was anyone I know).

Anyway, I'm profoundly agnostic, verging on atheist. Actually I'm apatheist which is probably the concept I recognize myself in the most. But as my name suggests I have muslim family, and I also have catholic family, and they are all good people (well I mean some are assholes or dumbasses, but they'd be regardless of religion and they would never hurt someone). So I'm not putting all religious people in the same bag and resorting to massive hatred, and I'm glad people I know are acting the same. But I also know they don't reflect France as a whole, most of them are educated, open-minded and have seen more of the world than what they view from their doorsteps, so I'm worried for what might happen to muslim communities in France and I'm not looking forward to the results of coming regional élections, especially in the region I grew up in, Picardie, where Marine Le Pen already had way too much support.
I don't think people who say you should not feel hatred and fear are right though. If you don't fear you're inconscious and if you don't hate you're a saint (good for you but hard to believe). Just don't get wrong on who to hate, stick to the terrorists and whoever helped them, and don't let your fear dominate you.

PlasticRam · Post by **PlasticRam** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:07 am

PlasticRam wrote:I kind of am of the opinion that for some atheists that are mentally not in a good situation and that know for an absolute certainty that there's no eternal punishment, that might free them to do whatever they want if life has treated them badly. So at least in theory that way religion could have prevented them from doing horrible things.

But actually I kinda got this theory cos once I watched the O'Reilly Factor, so take it with a grain of salt to say the least

Well yeah that can be true, but it also can be true that people do horrible things in the name of Christianity for example. The person who killed John Lennon and 2011 Norway mass murderer are good examples.

I think right now though we have a huge problem with radical Islamic terrorism. Christianity used to have this problem hundreds of years ago, but the problem has largely been solved. Now we need to find a way to defeat violent Islamic radicals. I guess the solution could be for NATO to declare war against ISIS. But we need to be really careful to only fight against ISIS, not Syria. If we bomb the wrong area in Syria, that will kill innocent civilians that are actually our allies! Obviously killing civilians in any war is wrong, but in this case it's even worse.

That last paragraph is a little aggressive, but I'm just "mad as shit", as we say.

Moonbeam · Post by **Moonbeam** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:18 am

I am devastated for France, a country I have fallen in love with after visits over the past couple years. I was just there 2 weeks ago, and I really felt like I could live there if the opportunity presented itself. The people, their lifestyle, the culture, the history, the food, and the music have enamored me, and having made so many friends there now, I was really shaken up about these attacks. It's terrible whenever this sort of thing happens, and I am sickened by events in Lebanon, Turkey, Egypt, and Nigeria in recent weeks as well. Nonetheless, I am confident that such broad and blind hatred will ultimately lose out as it ultimately does.

I am glad to hear that all of our Europeans here are physically ok. My prayers go out to all of the families of the victims, and my heart bleeds for all of France.

Gillingham · Post by **Gillingham** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:25 pm

And now this situation in Mali with 170 hostages in a hotel.
I want to stay positive and I don't believe that the world is getting worse and worse, but the problem with extremist Islam is getting out of hand half the world over.

I don't think declaring war to Isis (as NATO) would do very much good, especially in the long run. But then again, what would get us closer to a durable solution?
The issue is unfortunately getting closer and closer to a situation akin to Isreal/Palestina.

Pierre · Post by **Pierre** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 1:06 pm

Gillingham wrote:And now this situation in Mali with 170 hostages in a hotel.
I want to stay positive and I don't believe that the world is getting worse and worse, but the problem with extremist Islam is getting out of hand half the world over.

I don't think declaring war to Isis (as NATO) would do very much good, especially in the long run. But then again, what would get us closer to a durable solution?
The issue is unfortunately getting closer and closer to a situation akin to Isreal/Palestina.

There were bombings in Nigeria as well yesterday and the day before. We're going through a particularly depressing phase of history.

I'm not sure that waging war to Daesh is fruitless, especially since this organization doesn't seem to even consider making peace with the rest of the world (and don't tell me that's because the world is at war with them, as the founding principles of Daesh are that their religion is a religion of war and that whoever doesn't share it is an enemy. I believe they would attack us regardless). However, it will certainly not be sufficient. Islam needs to reform itself, and the Western countries who have a muslim population, like France, need to offer them an alternative for their future. What is sure is that the issue will unfortunately not be solved anytime soon.