Suggest genre changes here

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Henrik
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Suggest genre changes here

Postby Henrik » Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:34 pm

If you want to add or remove a genre for an album on AM, let me know it in this thread. However, I will only change the genres if...

1. The RYM genres (genre votes) are in line with your suggestion, meaning that the genre is listed in bold (primary genre) on RYM. Preferably the votes (only visible to RYM members) are also rather convincing, meaning that there are at least a few more positive than negative votes.

2. The RYM votes are uncertain or somewhat against your suggested genre change, but we get to a consensus here that the change should be made (at least two more people for than against the change).

To increase the chance of a change, I encourage you to vote at RYM before posting your suggestion here.

I have a fear that this thread will be cluttered, so please only suggest a change if it really matters to you and the RYM votes are not (clearly) against you, or if you find an album at RYM where the genre votes have changed over time to a new distinct set of genres. If this thread becomes cluttered anyway, I will probably start a new forum where every suggestion can have its own thread.

Agreed changes will be made in the next site update (next year).
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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby Sweepstakes Ron » Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:09 pm

Is there a reason why "regional" hip-hop genres (east coast, west coast, etc.) are not on the site?
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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby Henrik » Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:44 pm

Sweepstakes Ron wrote:Is there a reason why "regional" hip-hop genres (east coast, west coast, etc.) are not on the site?

Yes. These genres are based on region rather than sound. There was a 91 yes/26 no vote for merging West Coast Hip Hop into Hip Hop. The change was denied, but I think they just keep things like these as they are because they are working on a new descriptor tree.
https://rateyourmusic.com/admin/queue/hq/profile_details?id=22190&type=h&context=p

There are other regional genres as well, but hip hop albums are usually also listed with several other genres, and I deleted these two genres to make the genre column lighter on the AM pages.

Example:
Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back
Conscious Hip Hop, Hardcore Hip Hop, Political Hip Hop

I don't think East Coast Hip Hop is needed.
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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby luney6 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:53 pm

Shouldn't albums like the Velvet Underground and Nico, Daydream Nation and Trout Mask Replica, which are listed in the subgenres of rock list also be listed in main rock list?
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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby Henrik » Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:28 pm

luney6 wrote:Shouldn't albums like the Velvet Underground and Nico, Daydream Nation and Trout Mask Replica, which are listed in the subgenres of rock list also be listed in main rock list?

Yes they should. I need to take a look at this.
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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby Bruno » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:55 pm

Henrik, recently I started making a new sheet with the songs of the Top Songs, and have classified each with its sub-genres and its main genres, each in a different column. I completed the 5000 songs on the main list. I can send too you, if you want.

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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby Henrik » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:10 pm

Bruno wrote:Henrik, recently I started making a new sheet with the songs of the Top Songs, and have classified each with its sub-genres and its main genres, each in a different column. I completed the 5000 songs on the main list. I can send too you, if you want.

That would be great! I don't know how much I will use it though, as I want to use the same genre tree as for albums (i.e. RYM's genres).
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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby Bruno » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:34 pm

Henrik wrote:
Bruno wrote:Henrik, recently I started making a new sheet with the songs of the Top Songs, and have classified each with its sub-genres and its main genres, each in a different column. I completed the 5000 songs on the main list. I can send too you, if you want.

That would be great! I don't know how much I will use it though, as I want to use the same genre tree as for albums (i.e. RYM's genres).

Okay, I'll translate.

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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby Henrik » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:42 pm

Bruno wrote:
Henrik wrote:
Bruno wrote:Henrik, recently I started making a new sheet with the songs of the Top Songs, and have classified each with its sub-genres and its main genres, each in a different column. I completed the 5000 songs on the main list. I can send too you, if you want.

That would be great! I don't know how much I will use it though, as I want to use the same genre tree as for albums (i.e. RYM's genres).

Okay, I'll translate.

Oh, many thanks for the offer, but what I meant is that I want to use not only the RYM genre tree but also how the singles are voted on at RYM. For album tracks we have to decide ourselves but the RYM genres for the albums in question is probably a good direction.
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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby Henrik » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:47 pm

Maybe you are wondering if I have asked if I can use RYM's genre data. No I haven't. I guess I'm afraid of getting a no. But I'm really trying to make it a winning situation for RYM, with links to RYM on all genre and album pages. I really hope they won't hunt me down.
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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby Bruno » Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:16 pm

At the moment I have these songs with genre(s):
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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby Sweepstakes Ron » Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:03 am

AM has Saint Etienne's So Tough under Indietronica, but RYM does not.
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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby Sweepstakes Ron » Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:33 pm

RYM no longer lists Bob Dylan's self-titled album under Country Blues, though it seems pretty close.
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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby Sweepstakes Ron » Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:28 am

RYM just added genre voting for songs. That'll help a lot when song genres are implemented.
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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby Henrik » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:03 am

Sweepstakes Ron wrote:RYM just added genre voting for songs. That'll help a lot when song genres are implemented.

Yes!!!
Good thing I haven't asked for help yet. It's probably wise to wait a year or so until the RYM votes for songs are stable.
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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby Sweepstakes Ron » Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:40 pm

"Alternative Singer-Songwriter" is no longer an RYM genre. Let England Shake doesn't even have a primary genre now.
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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby jonatan » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:39 am

I have a technical question about how to download the genres into an excel file.

I am interested in (1) the parent genres of the top 3000 albums. I can access those by clicking on each album, and writing them down. But perhaps there is an easier way?

And (2) genres and parent genres for the top songs. Does that information exist?

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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby Henrik » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:00 am

jonatan wrote:I have a technical question about how to download the genres into an excel file.

I am interested in (1) the parent genres of the top 3000 albums. I can access those by clicking on each album, and writing them down. But perhaps there is an easier way?

And (2) genres and parent genres for the top songs. Does that information exist?

1) I can provide a spreadsheet!
2) No, unfortunately.
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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby jonatan » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:25 am

1) That would be great. (If possible, including the bubbling unders.)

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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby StevieFan13 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:28 pm

I’d say an easy way to assign genres to songs is to use the same one as their parent album or the rest of their albums (ex: Nevermind is categorized as grunge, so songs like “Smells Like Teen Spirit,” “Polly,” “Lithium,” etc are grunge songs).
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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby tfguenther » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:21 am

I don't want to open Pandora's box or anything, but would you say that "Polly" is 'Grunge' just by listening to the song itself? If I didn't know that it's a Nirvana song (and by that kind of HAS to be Grunge), I wouldn't. As I wouldn't describe "When I'm Sixty-Four" by The Beatles as Psychedelic either...

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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby jonatan » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:24 pm

Is there any news about this?

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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby Henrik » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:29 pm

jonatan wrote:Is there any news about this?

Sorry, I totally forgot about the spreadsheet I promised. Added to my to-do list...
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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby BleuPanda » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:31 pm

StevieFan13 wrote:I’d say an easy way to assign genres to songs is to use the same one as their parent album or the rest of their albums (ex: Nevermind is categorized as grunge, so songs like “Smells Like Teen Spirit,” “Polly,” “Lithium,” etc are grunge songs).


To expand on this, I think this is the easiest first step, and then we pick out the songs that don't actually match the parent album. Use the album as a base and then consider the exceptions instead of overwhelming ourselves with the fact that some won't match up.
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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby StevieFan13 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:19 pm

BleuPanda wrote:
StevieFan13 wrote:I’d say an easy way to assign genres to songs is to use the same one as their parent album or the rest of their albums (ex: Nevermind is categorized as grunge, so songs like “Smells Like Teen Spirit,” “Polly,” “Lithium,” etc are grunge songs).


To expand on this, I think this is the easiest first step, and then we pick out the songs that don't actually match the parent album. Use the album as a base and then consider the exceptions instead of overwhelming ourselves with the fact that some won't match up.

Right, exactly. So an example would be something like Ultralight Beam, which to me feels closer to R&B than rap.
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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby Henrik » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:34 am

Henrik wrote:
jonatan wrote:I have a technical question about how to download the genres into an excel file.

I am interested in (1) the parent genres of the top 3000 albums. I can access those by clicking on each album, and writing them down. But perhaps there is an easier way?

And (2) genres and parent genres for the top songs. Does that information exist?

1) I can provide a spreadsheet!
2) No, unfortunately.

Here is a spreadsheet of genres and parent genres for all albums on AM.
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Re: Suggest genre changes here

Postby jonatan » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:47 am

Thank you! Which formula do you use to rank albums of different rank. I recall at some point reading something like
log(log(4 + 4000)) - log(log(4 + rank))


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