AM Classical Poll: Chamber/Ensemble

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whuntva
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AM Classical Poll: Chamber/Ensemble

Postby whuntva » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:25 am

Alright, after a minor mix-up before, NOW we can do ensemble works.

This time, look for "Music for small groups of instruments. They can include any types of instruments in combination, and the focus again is on the interplay between the instruments". I'd say more than two. I know last round we included sonatas, which aren't always necessarily solo pieces, but this time I'm gonna say, at least two instruments total. Save ambiguities for other orchestral and don't vote for anything that would have been otherwise eligible last round.

I will accept a list of at least five. If you want to submit more than fifteen, be my guest. But only the first fifteen will be counted. Top twenty will make it to the final pool of pieces.

Point sum:
1. 50 points
2. 40
3. 30
4. 20
5. 15
6. 10
7. 9
8. 8
9. 7
10. 6
11. 5
12. 4
13. 3
14. 2
15. 1

YOU DO NOT NEED TO SPECIFY A RECORDING!!

I will leave the poll open until our usual closing time. Something happened and I was late last time, but let's keep going this time.
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Re: AM Classical Poll: Chamber/Ensemble

Postby Honorio » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:52 am

Let's enter the magic chamber:


1. JOHANN PACHELBEL "Canon and Gigue in D for 3 violins and basso continuo" (probably 1694). Favourite part: "I. Canon"
Originally written for a small ensemble of three violins and basso continuo (althought nowadays is usually performed by a chamber orchestra), Pachelbel's Canon in D is the most obvious choice I could have made. But I don't mind, echoes of this simple but delicious piece of music still can be heard today on every kind of music (as humorously stated here).


2. FRANZ SCHUBERT "String Quartet No. 14 in D minor (Death and the Maiden)" (1824). Fav: "II. Andante con moto"
The second movement consists on variations on a previous lied, each one of them expressing a very different emotion.


3. PHILIP GLASS "Glassworks" (1982). Fav: "VI. Closing"
A masterpiece of contemporary post-minimalism, with six splendid songs/movements, pure classical for now people.


4. OLIVIER MESSIAEN "Quatuor pour la fin du temps" (1941). Fav: "I. Liturgie de cristal"
Written at a concentration camp for the only instruments available, violin, clarinet, cello ans piano. Sounds of death.


5. WOLFGANG AMADEUS MOZART "Serenade No. 13 for Strings in G major (Eine kleine Nachtmusik)" (1787). Fav: "I. Allegro"
Like Pachelbel's Canon in D it was originally written for string quartet and it's still the best way to play (and enjoy) it.

6. CLAUDE DEBUSSY "String Quartet in G minor" (1893). Fav: "II. Assez vif et bien rythmé"
7. LUDWIG VAN BEETHOVEN "String Quartet No. 14 in C♯ minor" (1826). Fav: "I. Grave - Allegro di molto e con brio"
8. ARVO PÄRT "Spiegel im Spiegel" (1978).
9. CÉSAR FRANCK "Violin Sonata in A major" (1886). Fav: "Allegretto poco mosso"
10. DMITRI SHOSTAKOVICH "String Quartet No. 8 in C minor" (1960). Favourite part: "II. Allegro molto"
11. JOHANNES BRAHMS "Piano Trio No. 1 in B major" (1854). Fav: "I. Allegro con brio"
12. ARNOLD SCHÖNBERG "Verklärte Nacht" (1899). Fav: "I. Sehr Iangsam"
13. SERGEI RACHMANINOFF "Cello Sonata in G minor" (1901). Fav: "II. Allegro scherzando"
14. WOLFGANG AMADEUS MOZART "Clarinet Quintet in A major" (1789). Fav: "I. Allegro"
15. MAURICE RAVEL "Introduction et Allegro" (1905).


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Re: AM Classical Poll: Chamber/Ensemble

Postby bonnielaurel » Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:22 am

1. Bela Bartók - String Quartet No. 4
2. Edgar Varèse - Ionisation
3. Claude Debussy - Sonata for Flute, Viola and Harp
4. Arnold Schönberg - Verklärte Nacht
5. Robert Schumann - Piano Quintet in E-Flat major
6. Johannes Brahms - Sonata No. 1 in F minor for Clarinet and Piano
7. Ludwig van Beethoven - String Quartet No. 14 in C-sharp minor
8. Bela Bartók - Sonata for Two Pianos and Percussion
9. Franz Schubert - String Quintet in C major
10. Igor Stravinsky - Octet
11. Alfred Schnittke - String Quartet No. 3
12. G. F Handel - Trio Sonata in B minor (HWV 386b)
13. W. A. Mozart - Flute Quartet No. 1 in D major (K. 285)
14. Olivier Messiaen - Quatuor pour la fin du temps
15. Paul Hindemith - Trumpet Sonata
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Re: AM Classical Poll: Chamber/Ensemble

Postby sonofsamiam » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:48 pm

1 | Eastman | The Holy Presence of Joan d'Arc
2 | Crumb | Black Angels
3 | Messiaen | Quatuor pour la fin du temps
4 | Reich | Octet (aka Eight Lines)
5 | Bartók | String Quartet No. 4
6 | Schoenberg | String Quartet No. 3
7 | Shostakovich | String Quartet No. 8
8 | Schubert | Piano Quintet in A major "Trout"
9 | Pachelbel | Canon in D major
10 | Carter | String Quartet No. 3
11 | Mozart | String Quartet No. 19 "Dissonance"
12 | Glass | Glassworks
13 | Schubert | String Quartet No. 14 "Death & the Maiden"
14 | Pärt | Fratres
15 | Schnittke | String Quartet No. 3
16 | Feldman | For Philip Guston
17 | Varèse | Ionisation
18 | Beethoven | String Quartet No. 14
19 | Bartók | Sonata for Two Pianos and Percussion
20 | Schoenberg | Verklärte Nacht
21 | Radulescu | Streichquartett Nr. 4
22 | Takemitsu | Toward The Sea
23 | Schumann | Piano Quintet in E flat major
24 | Janácek | String Quartet No. 2 "Intimate Letters"
25 | Beethoven | Piano Trio No. 7 "Archduke"
26 | Mozart | Serenade No. 13 in G major "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik"
27 | Ravel | String Quartet in F major
28 | Schubert | String Quintet in C major
29 | Schoenberg | String Quartet No. 2
30 | Dvorák | String Quartet No. 12 "American"
31 | Debussy | Sonata for Flute, Viola, and Harp
32 | Haydn | String Quartet in C major, "Emperor"
33 | Mendelssohn | Octet for Strings in E flat major
34 | Bartók | String Quartet No. 6
35 | Carter | String Quartet No. 2
36 | Pärt | Spiegel Im Spiegel
37 | Feldman | Crippled Symmetry
38 | Berg | Lyric Suite
39 | Stravinsky | Octet
40 | Beethoven | String Quartet No. 13 in B flat major and Grosse Fugue

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Re: AM Classical Poll: Chamber/Ensemble

Postby whuntva » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:42 pm

Your humble host is here to save the poll and remind people there's just a bit less than a week left.

1) Pachelbel-Canon in D major (this is probably my pick to win it all, just saying)
2) Beethoven-"String Quartet No. 14 in C sharp minor"
3) Schubert-Piano Quintet in A major "Trout"
4) Telemann - Sinfonia Spirituosa in D Major
5) Mozart-Serenade No. 13 in G major "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik"
6) Telemann-Partita in G major
7) Schubert-"String Quartet No. 14 in D minor (Death and the Maiden)"
8) Schoenberg-String Quartet No. 3
9) Beethoven-Piano Trio No. 7 "Archduke"
10) Telemann-Quadri a violino
11) Schumann - Piano Quintet in E-Flat major
12) Shostakovich-"String Quartet No. 8 in C minor"
13) Haydn-String Quartet in C major, "Emperor
14) Glass-Glassworks
15) Handel - Trio Sonata in B minor

Surprised there's no love for Telemann. The guy is to Chamber what Beethoven is to Symphonies!
Last edited by whuntva on Fri May 01, 2015 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AM Classical Poll: Chamber/Ensemble

Postby whuntva » Fri May 01, 2015 2:51 am

Almost the last day.

I want at least one more vote in before Saturday at midnight.
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Re: AM Classical Poll: Chamber/Ensemble

Postby Romain » Fri May 01, 2015 6:55 am

Yes, I'm in love with Schubert and Brahms for their Chamber Music.

And "La jeune fille et la mort" is, by far, one of the beautiful music ever created.

1. Schubert - Quatuor à cordes n°14, "La jeune fille et la mort"








2. Brahms - Sextuor à cordes numéro 2 op36
3. Beethoven - Sonate pour violon et piano n°9 « À Kreutzer »
4. Brahms - Quintette pour piano et cordes
5. Schubert - Octuor en fa majeur
6. Schubert - Sonate en la mineur, "Arpeggione"
7. Ravel - Quatuor à cordes
8. Brahms - Sextuor à cordes numéro 1 op18
9. Olivier Messiaen - "Quatuor pour la fin du temps"
10. Borodine - Quatuor à cordes n°2
11. Schubert - Quintette en la majeur, "la truite"
12. Brahms - Sonate pour violoncelle et piano numéro 1
13. Dvorak - Quatuor n°12 "L'américain"
14. Beethoven - Sonate pour violon et piano n°5 « Le printemps»
15. Schubert - Quintette en ut majeur
Last edited by Romain on Fri May 01, 2015 1:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: AM Classical Poll: Chamber/Ensemble

Postby Honorio » Fri May 01, 2015 11:27 am

Welcome back, Romain! Excellent list. Hope you don't mind that I translated it to English (only to make things easier to whuntva):

1. Schubert -String Quartet No. 14, Death and the Maiden
2. Brahms - String Sextet No. 2 in G major
3. Beethoven - Violin Sonata No. 9, Kreutzer
4. Brahms - Piano Quintet in F minor
5. Schubert - Octet in F major
6. Schubert - Sonata in A minor for Arpeggione and Piano
7. Ravel - String quartet in F major
8. Brahms - String Sextet No. 1 in B-flat major
9. Messiaen - Quatuor pour la fin du temps
10. Borodin - String Quartet No. 2
11. Schubert - Piano Quintet in A major, Trout
12. Brahms - Cello Sonata No. 1 in E minor
13. Dvořák - String Quartet in F major, American
14. Beethoven - Violin Sonata No. 5 in F major, Spring
15. Schubert - String Quintet in C major

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Re: AM Classical Poll: Chamber/Ensemble

Postby Romain » Fri May 01, 2015 1:51 pm

No problemo Honorio, thanks.

And I'm sorry to come here so late but I have to relistened a lot of chamber music for make the definitive choices. It's a genre I like a lot.

Just one question, I see in your translation, for the sonatas, you don't put the two instruments, is it habitual in english to "forget" the piano?

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Re: AM Classical Poll: Chamber/Ensemble

Postby Dan » Fri May 01, 2015 4:24 pm

01 | Edward Elgar | Salut d'amour
02 | César Franck | Sonata for Violin and Piano in A major
03 | Johannes Brahms | Violin Sonata No. 1 in G major
04 | Antonín Dvořák | String Quartet No. 12 in F major ("American")
05 | Johannes Brahms | Piano Quartet No. 1 in G minor
06 | Robert Schumann | Piano Quintet in E flat major
07 | Maurice Ravel | String Quartet in F major
08 | Ludwig van Beethoven | Violin Sonata No. 5 in F major ("Spring")
09 | Aleksandr Borodin | String Quartet No. 2 in D major
10 | Johann Pachelbel | Canon and Gigue in D for 3 violins and basso continuo
11 | Francis Poulenc | Flute Sonata
12 | Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky | Piano Trio in A minor
13 | Dmitri Shostakovich | String Quartet No. 8 in C minor
14 | Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart | Trio in E flat major ("Kegelstatt")
15 | Franz Schubert | String Quartet No. 14 in D minor ("Death and the Maiden")
Let's make this a good year.

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Re: AM Classical Poll: Chamber/Ensemble

Postby Honorio » Sat May 02, 2015 2:43 pm

Great! Not many voters but excellent lists! Hope others can join us for the "Other Orchestral" poll. It would be nice especially to have Jeff back. After stating "symphony is my least favorite musical form" he posted an excellent list of symphonies filled by unexpected choices and then he never returned! Maybe the "Other Orchestral" poll is a good place to come back. And, of course, it would be extremely nice to have lists from Kingoftonga, Henry, JimmyJazz and Antonius (apart of the 6 usual suspects).

Romain wrote:Just one question, I see in your translation, for the sonatas, you don't put the two instruments, is it habitual in english to "forget" the piano?

Well, I'm not an expert and probably both options are correct, I mean "violin sonata" and "sonata for violin and piano" but the usual form in English is "violin sonata" (or "cello sonata" or "flute sonata") when it's accompanied by a piano and "sonata for solo violin" when it's not. Moreover the usual form in English for the Concerti is "violin concerto," "cello concerto" or "piano concerto" when the soloist is accompanied by an orchestra and not "concerto for piano and orchestra" (although it's also correct). At least to my knowledge.

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Re: AM Classical Poll: Chamber/Ensemble

Postby Kingoftonga » Sat May 02, 2015 11:00 pm

I'm back!

1. Ralph Vaughan Williams - Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis (This is for string orchestra, which I'm considering to be an "ensemble". But I'll understand if it doesn't fit, especially if there's a "other orchestral" category coming)
2. Ludwig van Beethoven - Archduke Trio
3. Giovanni Gabrieli - Canzon primi toni a 8
4. Bela Bartok - String Quartet No. 4
5. Franz Schubert - "Trout" Quintet in A Major
6. Antonio Corelli - Trio Sonata, Opus 2, No. 1
7. John Adams - Shaker Loops
8. G.F. Handel - Fireworks Suite
9. Maurice Ravel - String Quartet in F Major
10. John Adams - John's Book of Alleged Dances
11. Edvard Grieg - Holberg Suite
12. Samuel Barber - Adagio for Strings
13. Steve Reich - Music for 18 Musicians
14. Giovanni Gabrieli - Canzon duodecimi toni a 10
15. Karlheinz Stockhausen - Kreuzspiel
***
16. Steve Reich - Music for Pieces of Wood
17. Dmitri Shostakovich - String Quartet No. 10
18. John Adams - Road Movies
19. Franz Schubert - String Quartet No. 14, "Death and the Maiden"
20. Anton Webern - Quartet, op. 22
21. Alfred Schnittke - String Quartet No. 2

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Re: AM Classical Poll: Chamber/Ensemble

Postby whuntva » Sun May 03, 2015 1:34 am

Poll is closed!

I'm a bit busy tonight, but results will be up as soon as I can post them tomorrow-ish.
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Re: AM Classical Poll: Chamber/Ensemble

Postby Romain » Sun May 03, 2015 7:01 am

Honorio wrote:Well, I'm not an expert and probably both options are correct, I mean "violin sonata" and "sonata for violin and piano" but the usual form in English is "violin sonata" (or "cello sonata" or "flute sonata") when it's accompanied by a piano and "sonata for solo violin" when it's not. Moreover the usual form in English for the Concerti is "violin concerto," "cello concerto" or "piano concerto" when the soloist is accompanied by an orchestra and not "concerto for piano and orchestra" (although it's also correct). At least to my knowledge.


Thanks for the answer Honorio.

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Re: AM Classical Poll: Chamber/Ensemble

Postby Honorio » Sun May 03, 2015 8:47 am

Welcome back, Kingoftonga. Excellent list but maybe some of the choices should be removed (and reused for the next thread) because, even if they could be considered "chamber" pieces, they were written for large ensembles. But whuntva has the last word on it. He didn't specify a maximum number of musicians and only 3 of the pieces voted so far were scored for more than 10 musicians (but less than 15). These pieces are:
- Eastman's "The Holy Presence of Joan d'Arc," scored for 10 cellos.
- Varèse's "Ionisation," scored for 13 percussion players.
- Glass' "Glassworks," scored for a variable ensemble, the piece with more players on it is "Island," scored for 11 musicians.

Aditionally two pieces were originally scored for small ensembles but now are widely known for its adaptations to string orchestras, the cases of Pachelbel's "Canon and Gigue in D" ("originally scored for three violins and basso continuo") and Mozart's "Serenade No. 13 for Strings, Eine kleine Nachtmusik" (originally scored "for an ensemble of two violins, viola, and cello with optional double bass, but is often performed by string orchestras").

In your list the ones that probably should belong to "other orchestral" are (all the quotes are taken from Wikipedia):
- Williams' "Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis," "scored for an expanded string orchestra divided into three parts: orchestra I, a full-sized string orchestra; orchestra II, a single desk from each section (ideally placed apart from Orchestra I); and a string quartet. Vaughan Williams made this configuration resemble an organ in sound, with the quartet representing the swell division, orchestra II the choir division, and orchestra I the great division."
- Handel's "Fireworks Suite," "scored for a large wind band ensemble consisting of 24 oboes, 12 bassoons and a contrabassoon, nine natural trumpets, nine natural horns, three pairs of kettledrums, and side drums which were given only the direction to play "ad libitum"; no side drum parts were written by Handel. Handel was specific about the numbers of instruments to each written part."
- Grieg's "Holberg Suite" "was originally composed for the piano, but a year later was adapted for string orchestra." Quoting Wikipedia again: "String orchestras can be of chamber orchestra size ranging from between 12 (4.3.2.2.1 = 12) and 21 musicians (6.5.4.4.2 = 21) sometimes performing without a conductor, or consist of the entire string section of a large symphony orchestra which could have 60 musicians (16.14.12.10.8 = 60; Gurre-Lieder calls for 84: 20.20.16.16.12)."
- Barber's "Adagio for Strings," "arranged for string orchestra from the second movement of his String Quartet, Op. 11."
- Reich's "Music for 18 Musicians." Enough said? Well, "in his introduction to the score, Reich mentions that although the piece is named Music for 18 Musicians, it is not necessarily advisable to perform the piece with that few players due to the extensive doubling it requires."

Since you posted a list of 21 works we can remove these 5 pieces and move up the next 5. But, as I said, whuntva got the last word on the subject.

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Re: AM Classical Poll: Chamber/Ensemble

Postby bonnielaurel » Sun May 03, 2015 9:33 am

The difference between an orchestra and an ensemble isn't really in the number of musicians. If each musician has his own part it's an ensemble; if several musicians play the same part (e.g. the second violins) it's an orchestra. A big ensemble can have more musicians than a small string orchestra.

I agree that Kingoftonga's No. 1, 8, 11, 12 and probably 13 should be kept for "Other Orchestral". In the other cases mentioned I would stick to Ensemble.
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Re: AM Classical Poll: Chamber/Ensemble

Postby Kingoftonga » Sun May 03, 2015 1:52 pm

Nice research, Honorio! I guess I was considering this category to be "any instrumental ensemble that's not a full orchestra." It sounds like most people held off on string orchestra music, though, so it makes sense for me to withdraw my entries 1, 8, 11, and 12. I'm a bit more torn on my "Music for 18 Musicians" pick; as BonnieLaurel says, the definition of chamber music is largely based on one-player-per-part (there are "chamber orchestras"), and Reich's piece can be for a large, 18 part chamber ensemble, although it is usually performed with larger ensembles with some part doubling.

And I f "Music for 18 Musicians" isn't eligible here, I have a hard time figuring out where it would go. I don't think it's "other orchestral" - the instrumentation is too idiosyncratic for that, and very far removed from a standard orchestra or string orchestra. Will there still be an "everything else" category?

The difficult thing about classical music genres is they only really coalesce around 1750, and largely disperse by 1950. A lot of music before and after that time period is a lot harder to fit in to a category. And names change - for example, Gabrieli published a volume known as "Symphoniae Sacrae," but they're more like antiphonal motets, and nothing like what we consider symphonies today.

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Re: AM Classical Poll: Chamber/Ensemble

Postby sonofsamiam » Sun May 03, 2015 2:26 pm

I do hope Music for 18 Musicians is eligible for next round, as it will be my #1 there, and would have been my top for chamber. I sort of thought other orchestral was going to stand in for anything not easily categorized, anyway...

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Re: AM Classical Poll: Chamber/Ensemble

Postby Kingoftonga » Sun May 03, 2015 4:44 pm

sonofsamiam wrote:I do hope Music for 18 Musicians is eligible for next round, as it will be my #1 there, and would have been my top for chamber. I sort of thought other orchestral was going to stand in for anything not easily categorized, anyway...


Yeah, if I'm the outlier on this one, I'm happy to rescind my vote for Music for 18 Musicians. I should have realized that a forum favorite like that would have gotten more votes this round if eligible....

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Re: AM Classical Poll: Chamber/Ensemble

Postby whuntva » Mon May 04, 2015 12:17 am

I don't consider the larger works "Ensemble" as they don't have standout segments. Fortunately, KingofTonga submitted more than enough to have all their votes counted. Everything moves up about one spot and gets the same number of votes as if the piece was not there.

No HUGE surprises. Most of the ones I thought were fairly well popular advanced.

Results:

1) Pachelbel-Canon in D major/113 points
2) Schubert-Death and the Maiden/103 points
3) Bartók - String Quartet No. 4/95 points
4) Schubert-Trout Concerto/63 points
5) Messiaen "Quatuor pour la fin du temps"/59 points
6) Beethoven - Archduke Trio/57 points
7) Eastman-Presence of Joan of Arc/50 points
8) Elgar-Salut d’amour/50 points
9) Beethoven String Quartet 14/49 points
10) Franck -Sonata for Violin and Piano in A major/47 points
11) Gabrieli - Canzon primi toni a 8/40 points
12) Varese-Ionisation/40 points
13) Brahms-String Sextet/40 points
14) Crumb-Black Angels/40 points
15) Glass-Glassworks/36 points
16) Brahms-Violin Sonata No. 1 in G major/30 points
17) Beethoven-Kreutzer/30 points
18) Schumann-Piano Quintet/30 points
19) Mozart-Eine Kleine Nachtmusik/30 points
20) Debussy-Concerto for Flute Violin and Harp/30 points


If there are any errors, please correct me. I won't get offended.

And, yes, Romain, I do believe the common practice is to ignore the keyboard for a Sonata, which I said last category is not automatically solo. Your picks will count.

Now we move on to what I believe will be by far the most popular field: Other Orchestral. I've been really looking forward to this I already have a #1 and my favorites mostly come from here.
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Re: AM Classical Poll: Chamber/Ensemble

Postby bonnielaurel » Mon May 04, 2015 2:59 pm

whuntva wrote:20) Debussy-Concerto for Flute Violin and Harp/30 points

If there are any errors, please correct me. I won't get offended.


Only that it's "Sonata for Flute, Viola and Harp". Anyway I'm glad my #3 has made the cut, especially because of the original combination of instruments.
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Re: AM Classical Poll: Chamber/Ensemble

Postby Romain » Mon May 04, 2015 5:35 pm

whuntva wrote:I don't consider the larger works "Ensemble" as they don't have standout segments. Fortunately, KingofTonga submitted more than enough to have all their votes counted. Everything moves up about one spot and gets the same number of votes as if the piece was not there.

No HUGE surprises. Most of the ones I thought were fairly well popular advanced.

Results:

1) Pachelbel-Canon in D major/113 points
2) Schubert-Death and the Maiden/103 points
3) Bartók - String Quartet No. 4/95 points
4) Schubert-Trout Concerto/63 points
5) Messiaen "Quatuor pour la fin du temps"/59 points
6) Beethoven - Archduke Trio/57 points
7) Eastman-Presence of Joan of Arc/50 points
8) Elgar-Salut d’amour/50 points
9) Beethoven String Quartet 14/49 points
10) Franck -Sonata for Violin and Piano in A major/47 points
11) Gabrieli - Canzon primi toni a 8/40 points
12) Varese-Ionisation/40 points
13) Brahms-String Sextet/40 points
14) Crumb-Black Angels/40 points
15) Glass-Glassworks/36 points
16) Brahms-Violin Sonata No. 1 in G major/30 points
17) Beethoven-Kreutzer/30 points
18) Schumann-Piano Quintet/30 points
19) Mozart-Eine Kleine Nachtmusik/30 points
20) Debussy-Concerto for Flute Violin and Harp/30 points


If there are any errors, please correct me. I won't get offended.


Thank you whuntva!

Some correction :

13) Brahms, it's the sextet n°2
2) Schubert-Death and the Maiden it's his String Quartet No. 14
4) Schubert-Trout Concerto it's not a concerto but his Piano Quintet in A major
17) Beethoven-Kreutzer it's his Violin Sonata No. 9


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