Grammys 2015

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Grammys 2015

Post by PlasticRam » Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:54 pm

They've already given out like half of them. Kanye 0 out of 2 this year.

Album of the Year nominees:

Morning Phase performed by Beck
Beyoncé performed by Beyoncé
x performed by Ed Sheeran
G I R L performed by Pharrell Williams
In the Lonely Hour performed by Sam Smith
I feel like that

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by PlasticRam » Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:56 pm

This is a good article about how much the Grammys suck:

http://www.complex.com/music/2014/01/ho ... oting-work

Like they're supposed to be like the biggest awards, but it's ridiculous really. I think the Oscars still have some credibility left.
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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by PlasticRam » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:16 am

Record of the Year and Song of the Year nominees are even more cringeworthy. I can't believe I'm actually rooting for Taylor Swift.

Here's the Wiki page for all categories:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/57th_Annual_Grammy_Awards

Rihanna, Kanye and Paul are performing FourFiveSeconds. Kanye is performing Only One too, maybe with Paul.
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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by Blanco » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:42 am

PlasticRam wrote:I think the Oscars still have some credibility left.
Hahahaha No, they didn't. Although I believe the Grammys are worst, yeah.

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by PlasticRam » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:52 am

Blanco wrote:
PlasticRam wrote:I think the Oscars still have some credibility left.
Hahahaha No, they didn't. Although I believe the Grammys are worst, yeah.
Yeah I guess so :) Like that's what I meant, that at least they're slightly better than the Grammys.
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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by Jirin » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:19 am

The Oscars at least usually go to one of the better American films of the year.

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by PlasticRam » Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:43 am

Wow, Beck won Album of the Year, didn't see that coming. It's Beck's 9th best album, but still quite good. Actually for me the most deserving winner of the nominees, in my opinion.
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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by Bruno » Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:45 am

What a surprise!

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by PlasticRam » Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:51 am

https://vine.co/v/OUvahKXUZKQ

He almost interrupted again :D
Last edited by PlasticRam on Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by PlasticRam » Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:55 am

This freaking Sam Smith sweeping other categories...
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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by PlasticRam » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:06 am

Image
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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by PlasticRam » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:10 am

Freaking Sam Smith won song and record of the year. Would have wanted Taylor to win, especially after being friendly with Ye.

Edit: I'm sorry my coverage has been a little Kanye-centric.
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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by Jirin » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:40 am

PlasticRam wrote:Wow, Beck won Album of the Year, didn't see that coming. It's Beck's 9th best album, but still quite good. Actually for me the most deserving winner of the nominees, in my opinion.
His best since Sea Change, IMO.

I am proud to have no idea who Sam Smith is. :)

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by PlasticRam » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:49 am

Jirin wrote:
PlasticRam wrote:Wow, Beck won Album of the Year, didn't see that coming. It's Beck's 9th best album, but still quite good. Actually for me the most deserving winner of the nominees, in my opinion.
His best since Sea Change, IMO.

I am proud to have no idea who Sam Smith is. :)
I actually have heard Guero, The Information and Modern Guilt each only once, but my memory is that at least two of those albums are better than Morning Phase. It was a little too similar to Sea Change in my opinion. But I'm gonna do some re-listening.
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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by PlasticRam » Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:11 am

Kanye also said afterwards that "Beck needs to respect artistry and give his award to Beyonce". He was right that maybe Beyonce would have deserved the award this year, but it came off like as if Beck wasn't a real artist.
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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by Bruno » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:35 pm

Jirin wrote:
PlasticRam wrote:Wow, Beck won Album of the Year, didn't see that coming. It's Beck's 9th best album, but still quite good. Actually for me the most deserving winner of the nominees, in my opinion.
His best since Sea Change, IMO.

I am proud to have no idea who Sam Smith is. :)
Sam Smith is a good singer and ''Stay With Me'' is very good too, imo.

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by Gillingham » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:12 pm

PlasticRam wrote:Kanye also said afterwards that "Beck needs to respect artistry and give his award to Beyonce". He was right that maybe Beyonce would have deserved the award this year, but it came off like as if Beck wasn't a real artist.
It's really quite childish and stupid of West. As if the Grammys have anything to do with 'artistry' in the first place, like mentioned earlier in this thread. Moreover, Beck's album is possibly one of the most 'artistic' endeavors of the nominated albums, although I have to admit I don't even know more than half of them.
His antics are getting old and boring. But that's just me...

Great to see that Taylor and Beck are quite mature in their reactions to him on stage.

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by Nick » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:16 pm

Jirin wrote:
PlasticRam wrote:Wow, Beck won Album of the Year, didn't see that coming. It's Beck's 9th best album, but still quite good. Actually for me the most deserving winner of the nominees, in my opinion.
His best since Sea Change, IMO.

I am proud to have no idea who Sam Smith is. :)
His solo stuff is alright, but the definitive Sam Smith song is his STELLAR vocal feature on Disclosure's "Latch", one of the best dance songs of the decade.

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by bootsy » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:35 pm

Gillingham wrote:
PlasticRam wrote:Kanye also said afterwards that "Beck needs to respect artistry and give his award to Beyonce". He was right that maybe Beyonce would have deserved the award this year, but it came off like as if Beck wasn't a real artist.
It's really quite childish and stupid of West. As if the Grammys have anything to do with 'artistry' in the first place, like mentioned earlier in this thread. Moreover, Beck's album is possibly one of the most 'artistic' endeavors of the nominated albums, although I have to admit I don't even know more than half of them.
His antics are getting old and boring. But that's just me...

Great to see that Taylor and Beck are quite mature in their reactions to him on stage.
Yeah I'm not sure what Ye is talking about here. It's not like he's some piece of crap artist that won. Beck is a great artist and was rewarded for it. Same with Beyonce had she won.

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by Nick » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:43 pm

Kanye West, like Prince, Morrissey, and Sun Kil Moon, is an example of an incredibly talented artist who sometimes says incredibly dumb things. It's best to not pay him any attention when he does.

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by HRS » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:35 pm

Agree with everyone about Beck, the tiresome Kanye anctics and the Grammys. I also thought that Beyonce had this on her bag after all they hype surrounding the album. Beck is an artist. Morning Phase was a great record, if it wasn't the best Beck record. We all know how awards like these reward some acts years after their prime. Beyonce should take hers for a much lesser record in a few years. I also would like to add that there's barely space for artistry in an Industry award and Kanye shows little to no consideration over other artists' way to apporach music. Beck is genius, a true pop music visionary.

Maybe Kanye is mad because Beck writes better acoustic music? After watching Kanye perform his Sheryl Crow cover along with Rihanna and Paul McCartney, I think so. When it comes to highly emotional singer/songwriter music, late career Beck does it better than Kanye last two singles.

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by Matski » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:43 pm

PlasticRam wrote:Kanye also said afterwards that "Beck needs to respect artistry and give his award to Beyonce". He was right that maybe Beyonce would have deserved the award this year, but it came off like as if Beck wasn't a real artist.
It's a shame if Kanye did say that afterwards. Seeing the best albums awards clip, it initially looked like it was meant to be a silly take/sly dig on what he did at the VMAs a few years ago. Still, kudos to Beck for the way he handled it.
PlasticRam wrote:I actually have heard Guero, The Information and Modern Guilt each only once, but my memory is that at least two of those albums are better than Morning Phase. It was a little too similar to Sea Change in my opinion. But I'm gonna do some re-listening.
Had to go back and count them but I agree with you PlasticRam. 'Morning Phase' was alright but probably ranks about ninth in his discography to me too. I enjoy 'Guero' or 'Modern Guilt' a bit more out of his post-'Sea Change' records.

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by Jirin » Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:10 pm

Man, everybody should just admit that everybody who disagrees with Kanye West is an art-hating selfish jerk. Everybody knows he is the most important person in the history of the universe. ALL PRAISE, YEEZY THE INFALLIBLE!

To me everything else Beck has done since Sea Change has felt like Odelay-lite. I suppose you could say Morning Phase is Sea Change-lite, but I like Sea Change better than Odelay.

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by Harold » Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:18 pm

Why can't Kanye ever leave well enough alone? The fake bum-rush to the stage, combined with his audience interaction with T-Swift, could have restored so much good will towards him, then he has to blow it by proving that, no, he actually wasn't joking and he's still the same old Yeezy. To paraphrase one of last year's Grammy winners, "He can't change / Even if he tried / Even if he wanted to."

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by Sweepstakes Ron » Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:44 pm

I'm not gonna try to justify Yeezy's behavior, but some people are definitely overreacting to the whole situation. But what to expect, this is the internet after all.
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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by bootsy » Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:20 pm

Sweepstakes Ron wrote:I'm not gonna try to justify Yeezy's behavior, but some people are definitely overreacting to the whole situation. But what to expect, this is the internet after all.
Yeah I'm kind of over it too. Beck wanted him to come up on stage. It's obvious he likes Kanye and probably gets him a little bit. Kanye says outrageous things but at some point people either need to stop getting so worked up about or just ignore him or both. This is just who he is.

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by GucciLittlePiggy » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:16 pm

bootsy wrote:Kanye says outrageous things but at some point people either need to stop getting so worked up about or just ignore him or both. This is just who he is.
Word.
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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by Gillingham » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:55 pm

GucciLittlePiggy wrote:
bootsy wrote:Kanye says outrageous things but at some point people either need to stop getting so worked up about or just ignore him or both. This is just who he is.
Word.
This is exactly what I would like to say to West. People say a lot of things about him and things he cares about, both outrageous and perfectly reasonable, but at some point West either needs to stop getting worked up about it or ignore it or both. This is just how life is.

Why would West be allowed to say and do outrageous things while, say, Bruce isn't?

At some point I will tell them off when I think it's stupid. They and everybody else can do whatever they want with what I say about it, getting worked up, ignore it, like it, it's all possible. :)

Unintentionally, this is getting close to Charlie Hebdo territory...

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by bootsy » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:22 pm

Gillingham wrote:
GucciLittlePiggy wrote:
bootsy wrote:Kanye says outrageous things but at some point people either need to stop getting so worked up about or just ignore him or both. This is just who he is.
Word.
This is exactly what I would like to say to West. People say a lot of things about him and things he cares about, both outrageous and perfectly reasonable, but at some point West either needs to stop getting worked up about it or ignore it or both. This is just how life is.

Why would West be allowed to say and do outrageous things while, say, Bruce isn't?

At some point I will tell them off when I think it's stupid. They and everybody else can do whatever they want with what I say about it, getting worked up, ignore it, like it, it's all possible. :)

Unintentionally, this is getting close to Charlie Hebdo territory...
:? What the hell are you talking about man.

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by Setherex » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:35 pm

I have an extremely excessive amount of opinions about Beck, Kanye West, the show itself, the Grammys in general, Beyonce, the media response, the public backlash, etc. right now. But all in all, any argument that I have can be fundamentally brought down to this:

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by Live in Phoenix » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:34 am

I imagine there's a statement somewhere in the end credits, "Nominees and winners are determined by an open bar, a set of blindfolds, and a dart board."

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by ordinaryperson » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:43 am

I find it strange that this is the 2nd time this decade that a alternative musician has come out of nowhere to win Best Album. I think the Grammys are trying to make up all the wrong doings that they have done in the past by picking the most critically acclaimed albums rather than which musician is most popular (although in 2013 when M&S won, that's very questionable). Maybe in the future Radiohead or Gorillaz will win Best Album;

and I'm very happy that Beck won. :music-listening:
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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by Harold » Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:50 am

Gillingham wrote:Unintentionally, this is getting close to Charlie Hebdo territory...
Have to echo Bootsy's question here. Please tell us you're not anywhere close to suggesting that Kanye West may one day get so mad that he starts shooting people. Because that's kind of what this reads like.

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by PlasticRam » Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:02 am

Harold wrote:
Gillingham wrote:Unintentionally, this is getting close to Charlie Hebdo territory...
Have to echo Bootsy's question here. Please tell us you're not anywhere close to suggesting that Kanye West may one day get so mad that he starts shooting people. Because that's kind of what this reads like.
I'm sure that's not what he meant. Actually that's a good bridge to my next sentiment.

tl;dr

I have to bring up John Lennon here to bring him down and move Kanye up. John Lennon beat both of his wives. Kanye hurt a teenage girl's feelings badly and says stupid things when he's drunk and sometimes when he's sober. Those things are undesirable qualities about a person, but when you compare it to beating your wives, doing naughty things to children (MJ allegedly), watching child porn (Pete Townshend) or killing someone (2pac), it does put it into perspective.

But I kind of actually have the view that Bruce has, that it kind of doesn't matter what kind of a person artist is, cos the art is separate from the person.

Like I still appreciate the work of Lennon, MJ, The Who, 2pac and Woody Allen just the same, cos it's just great art.

So I guess my main point is that Kanye isn't even doing anything. My secondary point is that even if he did, the art would stay the same, but of course I would have much less respect for him as a person.

Edit: Though I did temporarily lose respect for Ye cos I thought he thought that Beck wasn't a real artist, but later he said he loves Beck. Still I roll my eyes really hard when he insists Beck should give the award to Bey, but it's like whatever. Kanye, John Lennon and Lou Reed are jerks, but also geniuses. Sorry I'm rambling.

It's like he says stupid things sometimes. People shouldn't make such a big deal out of this, including me. People should agree to disagree with him.

I must mention that like 25% of the hate Ye gets is racist, and like 25% is ignorant, like people just saying "derp he's not a real artist cos he uses autotune". 25% that I agree with is people criticising his persona without taking anything away from his music. 25% people criticising the music itself intelligently from their subjective point of view, and I can't really say that's wrong.

Music has an objective side to it though. Kind of like I step back and say I don't really like Prince or R.E.M. but I can appreciate what they're doing and even consider it great art. Of course some people argue that objectively Kanye does bad music, and that's really a tricky issue, cos true objectivity is hard to find or even define. But I'm still certain that it exists in music.
Last edited by PlasticRam on Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by VanillaFire1000 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:24 am

I thought him coming up on stage was just him doing a gag about the 2009 VMAs, but then he went opened his mouth and removed all doubt.

I really like Kanye. I think he's pretty funny, sometimes. But yeah, he is like Morrissey: an incredibly talented person who can't shut up and makes people hate him.

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by Maschine_Man » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:33 am

The internet backlash, it feeds me! Shirley Manson:

Dear Kanye West
It is YOU who is so busy disrespecting artistry.
You disrespect your own remarkable talents and more importantly you disrespect the talent, hard work and tenacity of all artists when you go so rudely and savagely after such an accomplished and humble artist like BECK.
You make yourself look small and petty and spoilt.
In attempting to reduce the importance of one great talent over another, you make a mockery of all musicians and music from every genre, including your own.
Grow up and stop throwing your toys around.
You are making yourself look like a complete twat.
Ps. I am pretty certain Beyonce doesn’t need you fighting any battles on her account. Seems like she’s got everything covered perfectly well on her own.

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by Sweepstakes Ron » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:40 am

Actually, I think Shirley's pretty on point there. She's being reasonable about the whole situation without any bias or favoritism
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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by bootsy » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:40 am

Maschine_Man wrote:The internet backlash, it feeds me! Shirley Manson:

Dear Kanye West
It is YOU who is so busy disrespecting artistry.
You disrespect your own remarkable talents and more importantly you disrespect the talent, hard work and tenacity of all artists when you go so rudely and savagely after such an accomplished and humble artist like BECK.
You make yourself look small and petty and spoilt.
In attempting to reduce the importance of one great talent over another, you make a mockery of all musicians and music from every genre, including your own.
Grow up and stop throwing your toys around.
You are making yourself look like a complete twat.
Ps. I am pretty certain Beyonce doesn’t need you fighting any battles on her account. Seems like she’s got everything covered perfectly well on her own.
Even though she hit this right on the head. I just don't think Kanye cares or absorbs stuff like this. Why do people take the time to write stuff like this like it will change him. I mean I hope it does but deep down inside it probably won't.

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by bootsy » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:41 am

PlasticRam wrote:
Harold wrote:
Gillingham wrote:Unintentionally, this is getting close to Charlie Hebdo territory...
Have to echo Bootsy's question here. Please tell us you're not anywhere close to suggesting that Kanye West may one day get so mad that he starts shooting people. Because that's kind of what this reads like.
I'm sure that's not what he meant. Actually that's a good bridge to my next sentiment.

tl;dr

I have to bring up John Lennon here to bring him down and move Kanye up. John Lennon beat both of his wives. Kanye hurt a teenage girl's feelings badly and says stupid things when he's drunk and sometimes when he's sober. Those things are undesirable qualities about a person, but when you compare it to beating your wives, doing naughty things to children (MJ allegedly), watching child porn (Pete Townshend) or killing someone (2pac), it does put it into perspective.

But I kind of actually have the view that Bruce has, that it kind of doesn't matter what kind of a person artist is, cos the art is separate from the person.

Like I still appreciate the work of Lennon, MJ, The Who, 2pac and Woody Allen just the same, cos it's just great art.

So I guess my main point is that Kanye isn't even doing anything. My secondary point is that even if he did, the art would stay the same, but of course I would have much less respect for him as a person.

Edit: Though I did temporarily lose respect for Ye cos I thought he thought that Beck wasn't a real artist, but later he said he loves Beck. Still I roll my eyes really hard when he insists Beck should give the award to Bey, but it's like whatever. Kanye, John Lennon and Lou Reed are jerks, but also geniuses. Sorry I'm rambling.

It's like he says stupid things sometimes. People shouldn't make such a big deal out of this, including me. People should agree to disagree with him.

I must mention that like 25% of the hate Ye gets is racist, and like 25% is ignorant, like people just saying "derp he's not a real artist cos he uses autotune". 25% that I agree with is people criticising his persona without taking anything away from his music. 25% people criticising the music itself intelligently from their subjective point of view, and I can't really say that's wrong.

Music has an objective side to it though. Kind of like I step back and say I don't really like Prince or R.E.M. but I can appreciate what they're doing and even consider it great art. Of course some people argue that objectively Kanye does bad music, and that's really a tricky issue, cos true objectivity is hard to find or even define. But I'm still certain that it exists in music.
Very well said. :music-rockon:

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by Gillingham » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:58 am

Harold wrote:
Gillingham wrote:Unintentionally, this is getting close to Charlie Hebdo territory...
Have to echo Bootsy's question here. Please tell us you're not anywhere close to suggesting that Kanye West may one day get so mad that he starts shooting people. Because that's kind of what this reads like.
No, that's not at all what I meant. I'm sorry if people thought I was going that direction. Thanks PlasticRam for stepping up.

What I meant to say is that this discussion is unintentionally getting close to Charlie Hebdo territory, topic-wise. What with freedom of speech and all that. It's an interesting discussion, but there is definitely a substantial gray, controversial area. People should be allowed to say whatever they want, whether it's West, Bruce, Swift, Beck, Lennon, you or me doesn't matter all that much. But if one says certain things, one shouldn't be whining about a possible backlash, by whoever. That's all part of it. As long as it's not racist, mysigonistic or discriminatory in any way. Let alone violent, but that should be clear for everybody.
If West can say whatever he wants, other people are equally allowed to say whatever they want about him and his antics. And then he can reply again, on and on. It get's tiresome, but it's allowed. That's all.

Maybe the comparison with Charlie Hebdo wasn't a fortunate one, but what I meant is that religious people are allowed to think and say what they want and should be able to withstand the backlash that is created by their beliefs and opinions. They can enter the discussion over and over again. Both freedom of speech and freedom of religion are equally important. Then again peace of body and mind, by not being abused and/or discriminated against is at least as important and I think even more important. There's the gray area.

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by Pierre » Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:16 am

Gillingham wrote: Maybe the comparison with Charlie Hebdo wasn't a fortunate one
It did sound weird, but I thought I understood your point, and you confirmed it with your answer.

Personally, I find all those Ye antics to be mildly funny at best, although I believe they are getting old. I'm pretty sure he, too, thinks that Beck is a great artist. The rest is just Kanye being Kanye.

Harold
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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by Harold » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:25 pm

Pierre wrote:
Gillingham wrote: Maybe the comparison with Charlie Hebdo wasn't a fortunate one
It did sound weird, but I thought I understood your point, and you confirmed it with your answer.
Yes, your elaboration was very well stated. Sorry for the confusion. I didn't really think you were going in that direction - it's just that bringing Charlie into any discussion is so loaded right now.

I feel bad for Beck being dragged into the whole thing. At least he's getting a lot of mainstream press coverage right now, for the first time in who knows how long.

Can't wait for Kanye's reaction next year when he loses Album of the Year to 1989 (remember, Swift's album missed the Grammy nomination deadline, and it's certainly going to be among the favorites to win next February).

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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by ordinaryperson » Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:31 pm

I can't get the damn Youtube embed code to work so here is a remix of Kanye's comments on Beck.
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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by GucciLittlePiggy » Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:53 am

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/ ... d-20150211

"Beck is one of the nicest guys and one of the most respected musicians in the game. So there's nothing that I will want to do as a fellow musician to disrespect him in any way. And the weird thing is...I don't feel like I have the right to take away from people's moments, but the reality of it is...it's just a little jolt of truth, right? Everyone feels better after the fact, or everyone is way more famous after the fact, or everyone sells way more albums after the fact, and then Kanye just goes on being a [bleep] to everyone."

"Beck, afterwards, literally said, 'I think Beyoncé should've won it.' And when I said that thing about 'respect artistry,' I think it came off the wrong way, and that was a mis-wording on my part because obviously Beck is one of the most respected artists and respects artistry. But I felt — and this is my opinion and he's his own man and he's not wrong and we'll still go play basketball and stuff unless he doesn't want to do it — but I felt that even though the Grammys sometimes gives awards to people who you wouldn't think should win in the category, as a respect to artists, we mention the other artist's name in our speech. That was the point I was making about it."
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Re: Grammys 2015

Post by Matski » Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:59 am

Jirin wrote:To me everything else Beck has done since Sea Change has felt like Odelay-lite. I suppose you could say Morning Phase is Sea Change-lite, but I like Sea Change better than Odelay.
It's funny that since Sea Change many of Beck's listeners seems to have divided into two camps - his poppy eccentric higher-paced albums or his sincere slower works, especially since I kinda always loved both. However, I'll agree that after Sea Change he's somewhat settled into his comfort zone and that if I were to do a top 5 of his records they'd all have been released before 2005.

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