The 2014 All-Time Albums Poll - The FINAL, Final Results

[DocBrown]

Hello there,

I've noticed that the spreadsheet contains two entries of the Album DONUTS!

1st: Rank 480 J Dilla - Donuts (6 Votes - 323,3844 Points)
2nd: Rank 1646 Jay Dee - Donuts (2 Votes - 78,99899 Points)

Yeah, that was actually brought up during the presentation. The second (Jay Dee) is a duplicate. If you compare the voters, they are all included in the line at #480.

[Nassim]

Many thanks Doc for the game and the excel file.

Here a list with the number of point by voters for the albums with more than four votes.

Position - Artist - Album - number of points per voters - numbers of voters.

21. Jacques Brel - Ces Gens-Là 65.6378196329008 5

51. King Crimson - Red 59.7261822327181 8
53. Boredoms - Vision Creation Newsun 59.5500925789892 5
54. Sigur Rós - Takk... 58.9763320940978 6
56. Burial - Kindred 58.7056052298457 5
57. Tim Buckley - Starsailor 58.5023524750945 5
58. Yes - The Yes Album 58.4342707967901 5
63. Metallica - Master of Puppets 57.53952604723 10
68. Wes Montgomery - The Incredible Jazz Guitar of Wes Montgomery 56.9549012541594 5
75. Aphex Twin - Selected Ambient Works 85-92 56.5251721744065 11
76. Sleater-Kinney - The Woods 56.4476509988805 7
87. Dennis Wilson - Pacific Ocean Blue 55.6486215390427 5
88. Pere Ubu - The Modern Dance 55.5977090108781 8
89. System of a Down - Toxicity 55.5615612916351 5
90. Woody Guthrie - Dust Bowl Ballads 55.3881190375111 6
93. Black Sabbath - Vol. 4 55.3095173504345 6
94. Tim Buckley - Happy Sad 55.2715018408183 5

I'm really surprised there is only one album with less than 20 votes in this top 50 and that you have to wait #51 to get to the polarizing albums (like Red, Vision Creation Newsun or The Woods), little known gems (Pacific Ocean Blue, Wes Montgomery) or masterpieces from genres less popular in the forum (Master of Puppets, Toxicity, Selected Ambient Works...)
Takk is the one I am the most surprised to see in there, though it's strange that Tim Buckley has so few voters but with lot of love (3 persons actually voting for both albums).

[Chambord]

Great final list.
Well done to everyone who participated and first of all to Doc who sacrificed his time and energy to put it all together. Based on this list, I'm going to start re-checking the classics that didn't clicked with me so far, and of course the albums I haven't yet heard.

[Romain]

Great final list.
Well done to everyone who participated and first of all to Doc who sacrificed his time, his energy and his brain to put it all together. Based on this list, I'm going to start re-checking the classics that didn't clicked with me so far, and of course the albums I haven't yet heard.

[Henry]

Many thanks Doc for the game and the excel file.

Here a list with the number of point by voters for the albums with more than four votes.

Position - Artist - Album - number of points per voters - numbers of voters.

21. Jacques Brel - Ces Gens-Là 65.6378196329008 5

I'm really surprised there is only one album with less than 20 votes in this top 50 and that you have to wait #51 to get to the polarizing albums (like Red, Vision Creation Newsun or The Woods), little known gems (Pacific Ocean Blue, Wes Montgomery) or masterpieces from genres less popular in the forum (Master of Puppets, Toxicity, Selected Ambient Works...)
Takk is the one I am the most surprised to see in there, though it's strange that Tim Buckley has so few voters but with lot of love (3 persons actually voting for both albums).

Based on the very high ranking of this work by Brel I plan to give it another listen. Generally, I struggle listening to French songs because I do not understand the lyrics (despite many years of high school French). My guess is that most of the 5 voters who placed this album so high are French speakers and request that they help the rest of us gain some insight as to why they love this album so much.

[nicolas]

Henry, two of the greatest fans of that album, Henrik and Dan, don't speak French, and I'm also surprised that they had this album so high considering the importance of Brel's lyrics (espacially in the title song, the lyrics are a great moment of poetry). But this is probably the most cohesive Brel album musically speaking. The production is amazing. I personnally prefer Brel's last album from 1977 ("Brel" or " Les Marquises"), because of the power of its lyrics (Brel was about to die from lung cacer and knew it). But I know that if you don't speak French you miss a lot of that album and I understand that non francophone people prefer "Ces gens-là".

[Harold]

Doc, I hate to do this (don't worry, it doesn't affect the corrected top 500), but I think I've found another double entry on the spreadsheet, and unlike Donuts, it doesn't involve duplicate lines. Super Ape appears twice on the spreadsheet, once under Lee Perry and The Upsetters and once under The Upsetters; if you combine the points for these two entries, the album climbs from #947 to somewhere in the upper 700's.

[slick]

It is too bad I was too busy not to participate. I am just now finishing my list... If I would have finished my list in time OK Computer would have been #1.... I have it at #12 overall and do not have The Velvet Underground & Nico in my Top 500.... I am very impressed by the overall list, nice job!!!

[Dan]

Henry, two of the greatest fans of that album, Henrik and Dan, don't speak French, and I'm also surprised that they had this album so high considering the importance of Brel's lyrics (espacially in the title song, the lyrics are a great moment of poetry). But this is probably the most cohesive Brel album musically speaking. The production is amazing. I personnally prefer Brel's last album from 1977 ("Brel" or " Les Marquises"), because of the power of its lyrics (Brel was about to die from lung cacer and knew it). But I know that if you don't speak French you miss a lot of that album and I understand that non francophone people prefer "Ces gens-là".

Yes, most Brel fans who speak French say that the best thing about his songs are the lyrics. They talk of Jacques Brel the poet, with his interesting characters and their fascinating stories. I have read translated lyrics of many of his songs. The problem is, I have found that different translations of the same song can vary in quality and impact. And of course, some of the meaning just gets lost in translation. Nevertheless, it’s still easy to get an impression of what a good storyteller he was when you read the translated lyrics.

Then there are people who say that the best way to appreciate Brel is to look at video clips of his live performances, as he was an intensely physical and charismatic performer. There’s plenty of truth in that, and I have spent many pleasant hours looking at clips of his live performances on YouTube.

But as I don’t speak French, and as I don’t watch any videos when I listen to this album, it’s obviously the music that does it for me. The title track ("Ces gens-là") is a chanson classic, but it’s the more lively orchestration and production of other songs that make me love this album as much as I do (especially "La chanson de Jacky", which to me is the best example of a song where intricate, theatrical orchestration matches the passion and exuberance of Brel’s vocal delivery). But it’s not all about big, spirited orchestration – there are also slower, beautiful songs with a lot of emotional weight, like “Les Désespérés”, even if you don’t understand what he’s singing about.

It’s not always easy to explain what you like about an album when what it actually comes down to in the end is the way it makes you feel. Every month I seem to enjoy it more and more to listen to good music that is not sung in English. More often than not, I listen to non-anglophone music that falls outside the realm of rock and pop. This is not because I think that non-anglophone rock bands or pop acts are worse than their anglophone counterparts; it’s just that I’m more interested in styles and sounds that are unique to a specific country. To me, a lot of chanson (both from France and from other francophone countries) sounds quite a bit different to the anglophone music I grew up with. And every time I listen to this album (I usually listen to the original 25-minute, 6-track release from 1965), I love its francophone “otherness” as well as its theatrical yet emotionally intimate charm. It’s the non-anglophone album that excites me the most, and it is currently my second favourite album of all time. That’s just the way it is for me.

[Henry]

Dan - thanks for your excellent description of how Ces gens-la moves you. I just listened to the first two songs again today, and I very much enjoyed La chanson de Jacky. I plan listen to the rest of the album in the next week or so.

[Bruno]

** OFF TOPIC **

Does anyone have the top 1000 songs of the last AM Poll?

[Sweepstakes Ron]

** OFF TOPIC **

Does anyone have the top 1000 songs of the last AM Poll?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=679

[Bruno]

** OFF TOPIC **

Does anyone have the top 1000 songs of the last AM Poll?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=679

Thanks, Sweepstakes Ron!

[spiderpig]

Actually, since Bruno mentions it, does anyone have the spreadsheet of the last 1000 songs AM Poll? I can use the data much better with a spreadsheet...

[Honorio]

I posted on the Moderately Acclaimed Albums 5 Semi-Finals thread a kinda review of "Ces gens-là" and I'm going to post it here too:
As a proud member of the Five Nation Army of "Ces gens-là" supporters that includes South Africa (Dan, #2 of all time), Sweden (Henrik, #42), France (nicolas, #55), Netherlands (Stephan, #155) and Spain (me, #161), I'm going to jump to defend Brel. Let's go…
First of all, this is not my favourite Brel album (it's "Olympia 64"), in fact the album only grabbed my attention after a Henrik's suggestion. And secondly I'm going to follow the structure of the argumentation from the excellent review posted by Dan.
a) Brel the poet: yes, Dan, Brel was a fantastic lyricist. The way he turns the story upside down at the end of some songs is masterful, sometimes in the last verse. We know at the end that the narrator of the dysfunctional family of "Ces gens-là" is also part of this family, we know that both the narrator and "Jef" are beggars only in the last verse, we know in the end that the real infidelity is not committed by the grandfather but by the grandmother on "Grand-mère" and, tying life and death, that in the end the real meaning of the word "barrack" is "coffin" in the last word of "L'âge idiot." And the lyrics themes covers (as always in his case) a lot of ground, there is of course the vivid dissector of social costumes and groups (family in "Ces gens-là," army in "L'âge idiot," high society in "Grand-mère" and even the life of shepherds in "Les bergers") but Brel also talks about life (the nostalgia of childhood in "La chanson de Jacky," the sudden fall and decline in "Jef" and the slow fall and decadence in "L'âge idiot"), death (one of his favourites subjects, represented here by the superb recreation of his own death "Le tango funèbre" and the lonely funeral of a friend in "Fernand") and of course love ("Mathilde" but also the belle comme un soleil Frida amidst the monsters parade of "Ces gens-là"). The tone of the lyrics, closely tied to the music, goes from the euphoric "Mathilde" to the melodramatic "Fernand," from the cynical "Tango funèbre" to the sympathetic "Jef," from the solemn "L'âge idiot" to the humble "Les bergers," from the weird "Ces gens-là" to the compassionate "Les désespérés."
b) Brel the performer: yes, Dan, in my opinion the natural state of Jacques Brel was the stage. No more about this subject, just see Ces gens-là or La chanson de Jacky.
c) Brel the musician: but yes, Dan, I agree with you wholeheartedly that the music itself is more than enough to appreciate Jacques Brel. It's also true that too often the easy-listening arrangements on many Brel songs deadweight them in the eyes (and ears) of a pop or rock aficionado. But, apart of the brilliant melodies created by Brel (sometimes teaming with Gérard Jouannest), the arrangements were truly remarkable throughout this particular album. To name a few: the combination of xylophone and accordion raising spirits during the chorus in "Jef" after the gloomy strings of the verses, the playful percussion (playing on the rim snare) on the "être une heure" part of "La chanson de Jacky," the pastoral piccolo melodies on "Les bergers," the incredibly sad melody on the accordion at 3'01" on "Fernand" (I remember Henrik pointing out at this melody while listening to the song at nicolas' house three years ago), the jubilous trumpets on "Mathilde," the waltz-time piano on "Les désespérés" and many more. But the crowning achievement of the album in this matter is undoubtedly the arrangements of "Ces gens-là." The first two minutes features a minimalist arrangement of only piano and double bass repeating two slightly dissonant notes. At 1'59" an accordion enters playing a distant melody, substituted at 2'25" by the strings at a high register. And then, preceded by some flute trills it come the explosion. At 2'55", when the singer mention Frida qui est belle comme un soleil (who is beautiful as the sun) all the orchestra enters, blinding us with a light brighter that the sun. But the reality prevails (parce que les autres veulent pas, because the others don't want to), the horns shut up and the strings change the previous jubilous melody for an eerie melody from 3:43 that tinges the scene with a sense of unreality. This push of joy is finally completely lost at the end of the song. And during the whole song the double bass played the same two notes. Absolutely brilliant. At least in my opinion. And I'm sure that also in the opinion of the Brel Five Nation Army.

[Honorio]

DocBrown, I know I'm late but I wanted to add my congratulations to the previous ones for your excellent work. The layout was superb and so it was the timing on posting the results.
About the mistakes compiling the votes it's something that happened many times in the past to different AMers. I also made some mistakes when I compiled the votes on the 50s and 60s poll (I remember that I began to post the results of the 50s Songs Poll three times because of the mistakes).
That's why I want to make an official proposal to the Forum. Next polls should be counted by two different people independently. We could submit our votes to two different mail addresses and after the recount those two volunteers could check the possible differences on both lists before posting the definitive results. It won't ruin the surprise (except for the second volunteer obviously) and this double-checking surely will minimise future mistakes. The main drawback is (of course) that compiling votes is tiring and time-consuming and being the second volunteer is probably quite unrewarding. But that's just a proposal…

[Andre]

What a wonderful result. The banana at #1 and my favourite album Remain in Light ending up in the top 20, just where it belongs.

DocBrown, I could not participate in the poll simply because I did not have the time for it.
I just went through the entire 6 pages of this thread. Thank you for the great presentation!

[Andre]

DocBrown, I know I'm late but I wanted to add my congratulations to the previous ones for your excellent work. The layout was superb and so it was the timing on posting the results.
About the mistakes compiling the votes it's something that happened many times in the past to different AMers. I also made some mistakes when I compiled the votes on the 50s and 60s poll (I remember that I began to post the results of the 50s Songs Poll three times because of the mistakes).
That's why I want to make an official proposal to the Forum. Next polls should be counted by two different people independently. We could submit our votes to two different mail addresses and after the recount those two volunteers could check the possible differences on both lists before posting the definitive results. It won't ruin the surprise (except for the second volunteer obviously) and this double-checking surely will minimise future mistakes. The main drawback is (of course) that compiling votes is tiring and time-consuming and being the second volunteer is probably quite unrewarding. But that's just a proposal…

Good idea. The two volunteers could be equally importamt, like e.g. they could present it together ...

[Otisredding]

Reflections on the poll

1) These are our 30 favorite albums:

1 - The Velvet Underground - The Velvet Underground & Nico
2 - Radiohead - OK Computer
3 - The Beach Boys - Pet Sounds
4 - The Clash - London Calling
5 - David Bowie - The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars
6 - Arcade Fire - Funeral
7 - The Beatles - Revolver
8 - The Beatles - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
9 - The Beatles - Abbey Road
10 - Bob Dylan - Blonde on Blonde
11 - The Beatles - The Beatles ("White Album")
12 - Bob Dylan - Highway 61 Revisited
13 - The Smiths - The Queen Is Dead
14 - Pink Floyd - The Dark Side of the Moon
15 - Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin IV
16 - Bruce Springsteen - Born to Run
17 - Talking Heads - Remain in Light
18 - Pixies - Doolittle
19 - Nirvana - Nevermind
20 - R.E.M. - Automatic for the People
21 - The Who - Who's Next
22 - Sufjan Stevens - Illinois
23 - Prince - Purple Rain
24 - Bob Dylan - Blood on the Tracks
25 - The Rolling Stones - Exile on Main St.
26 - Radiohead - Kid A
27 - The Rolling Stones - Sticky Fingers
28 - Marvin Gaye - What's Going On
29 - Jimi Hendrix - Are You Experienced?
30 - The Rolling Stones - Beggars Banquet

2) I'm not sure that's a good idea to suggest poll with our 500 favorite albums; in my case, at least (I made ​​a list of 300 albums), some albums for many years not listening. That is, some albums were listed by a strange mixture of reasons (a vague memory, a special affection for this album, etc.). I think 100 is enough albums. For this reason I redid the survey accounting for only the top 100 albums of each AM'er. And this was the result:

1 - The Velvet Underground - The Velvet Underground & Nico
2 - The Beach Boys - Pet Sounds
3 - The Clash - London Calling
4 - Radiohead - OK Computer
5 - David Bowie - The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars
6 - The Beatles - Abbey Road
7 - The Beatles - Revolver
8 - The Beatles - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
9 - Arcade Fire - Funeral
10 - The Smiths - The Queen Is Dead
11 - Bob Dylan - Highway 61 Revisited
12 - The Beatles - The Beatles ("White Album")
13 - Bruce Springsteen - Born to Run
14 - Pink Floyd - The Dark Side of the Moon
15 - Bob Dylan - Blonde on Blonde
16 - The Who - Who's Next
17 - Nirvana - Nevermind
18 - Pixies - Doolittle
19 - Talking Heads - Remain in Light
20 - Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin IV
21 - Prince - Purple Rain
22 - Bob Dylan - Blood on the Tracks
23 - R.E.M. - Automatic for the People
24 - Sufjan Stevens - Illinois
25 - Michael Jackson - Thriller
26 - The Rolling Stones - Exile on Main St.
27 - Fleetwood Mac - Rumours
28 - U2 - The Joshua Tree
29 - The Rolling Stones - Sticky Fingers
30 - The Rolling Stones - Beggars Banquet

3) But two AM'ers made ​​a smaller list (Chevisan and Chambord). For this reason I made a new count with 70 albums each voter. So all participants bring the same points. The result was this:

1 - The Beach Boys - Pet Sounds
2 - The Velvet Underground - The Velvet Underground & Nico
3 - The Clash - London Calling
4 - David Bowie - The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars
5 - Radiohead - OK Computer
6 - The Beatles - Abbey Road
7 - The Beatles - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
8 - The Beatles - Revolver
9 - Arcade Fire - Funeral
10 - Bob Dylan - Highway 61 Revisited
11 - Bruce Springsteen - Born to Run
12 - Bob Dylan - Blonde on Blonde
13 - The Beatles - The Beatles ("White Album")
14 - Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin IV
15 - Pixies - Doolittle
16 - Nirvana - Nevermind
17 - The Smiths - The Queen Is Dead
18 - Prince - Purple Rain
19 - Talking Heads - Remain in Light
20 - Pink Floyd - The Dark Side of the Moon
21 - Bob Dylan - Blood on the Tracks
22 - The Who - Who's Next
23 - R.E.M. - Automatic for the People
24 - Fleetwood Mac - Rumours
25 - U2 - The Joshua Tree
26 - Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
27 - Marvin Gaye - What's Going On
28 - Sufjan Stevens - Illinois
29 - The Rolling Stones - Exile on Main St.
30 - Jimi Hendrix - Are You Experienced?

4) And if we counted only 30 favorite albums?

1 - The Clash - London Calling
2 - Radiohead - OK Computer
3 - The Velvet Underground - The Velvet Underground & Nico
4 - The Beatles - Revolver
5 - David Bowie - The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars
6 - The Beach Boys - Pet Sounds
7 - The Beatles - The Beatles ("White Album")
8 - Bob Dylan - Highway 61 Revisited
9 - Arcade Fire - Funeral
10 - The Beatles - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
11 - Nirvana - Nevermind
12 - Pink Floyd - The Dark Side of the Moon
13 - Bob Dylan - Blonde on Blonde
14 - Bruce Springsteen - Born to Run
15 - Pixies - Doolittle
16 - The Beatles - Abbey Road
17 - The Smiths - The Queen Is Dead
18 - The Who - Who's Next
19 - Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin IV
20 - Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
21 - Marvin Gaye - What's Going On
22 - R.E.M. - Automatic for the People
23 - Bob Dylan - Blood on the Tracks
24 - U2 - The Joshua Tree
25 - Prince - Purple Rain
26 - Jimi Hendrix - Are You Experienced?
27 - Television - Marquee Moon
28 - Portishead - Dummy
29 - Sufjan Stevens - Illinois
30 - Talking Heads - Remain in Light

5) Since this was fun, I made a last count. Only the best of the best. Only 10 albums per participant. And this was the result.

1 - Radiohead - OK Computer
2 - The Beatles - Revolver
3 - The Clash - London Calling
4 - David Bowie - The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars
5 - The Beatles - The Beatles ("White Album")
6 - Bob Dylan - Blonde on Blonde
7 - The Beatles - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
8 - The Beach Boys - Pet Sounds
9 - The Beatles - Abbey Road
10 - Bob Dylan - Highway 61 Revisited
11 - Pixies - Doolittle
12 - The Smiths - The Queen Is Dead
13 - Pink Floyd - The Dark Side of the Moon
14 - Bruce Springsteen - Born to Run
15 - Sufjan Stevens - Illinois
16 - The Velvet Underground - The Velvet Underground & Nico
17 - The Who - Who's Next
18 - Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
19 - R.E.M. - Automatic for the People
20 - Arcade Fire - Funeral
21 - Nirvana - Nevermind
22 - Marvin Gaye - What's Going On
23 - Jimi Hendrix - Are You Experienced?
24 - Prince - Purple Rain
25 - Tom Waits - Swordfishtrombones
26 - Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin IV
27 - Talking Heads - Remain in Light
28 - Bob Dylan - Bringing It All Back Home
29 - Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here
30 - The Beatles - Rubber Soul

* In any case, I kept the formula DocBrown
* I am aware that this is of no use, however, I wanted to present these data because they are very curious changes between the lists, especially in number 1.

[Otisredding]

About the mistakes compiling the votes it's something that happened many times in the past to different AMers.
That's why I want to make an official proposal to the Forum. Next polls should be counted by two different people independently. We could submit our votes to two different mail addresses and after the recount those two volunteers could check the possible differences on both lists before posting the definitive results. It won't ruin the surprise (except for the second volunteer obviously) and this double-checking surely will minimise future mistakes. The main drawback is (of course) that compiling votes is tiring and time-consuming and being the second volunteer is probably quite unrewarding. But that's just a proposal…

I agree.

I think it's impossible not to make mistakes.

This, by the way, is another reason to make the simplest poll (100 albums, 100 songs ...). Possibly, this way more people will get to vote.

[DocBrown]

This, by the way, is another reason to make the simplest poll (100 albums, 100 songs ...). Possibly, this way more people will get to vote.

Very interesting results, Otisredding!

I have to agree, 500 albums is way too much per voter. The bottom half of each list is irrelevant. (Four voters presented lists with over 200 choices that were unique to their list) It would be nice to have a sufficiently large pool of voters to generate a meaningful top 500 with only 100 votes per ballot, but that would require a far larger survey, perhaps 100 ballots or more. While we have that many lurkers, we seem to be stuck at about 45 to 50 active participants. So we make the choice, do we want a big results list with limited accuracy, or a small but meaningful list?

[Nick]

This is why I limited it to 20 songs and 20 albums when I did the EOY 2013 poll. Not only was it easier to tabulate, but there were very little errors, and cutting it off at 20 songs and albums ensured that the list would reflect the songs and albums people loved from 2013 the most, as opposed to a song or album getting a high ranking because a lot of people thought it was merely "decent".

[Jirin]

I would favor around 200 albums, because that's about the point in my list where albums cease to be 'special' to me.

[Sweepstakes Ron]

So I finally got around to listening to VU+N.

Maybe I'll poke it with a fifty-foot pole in another five, ten, fifty years.

What I'm saying is, it was painful to listen to.

[Henry]

So I finally got around to listening to VU+N.

Maybe I'll poke it with a fifty-foot pole in another five, ten, fifty years.

What I'm saying is, it was painful to listen to.

Bravo!!