Bruce: "The Beatles are the greatest act ever, but many more people nowadays listen to Chuck berry, Elvis, Little Richard Buddy Holly and other great 50s acts than listen to most other 60s acts aside from the Beatles."
This is just absolutely false. I don't think one person on this forum would agree with that. By a large margin, more people listen to the Rolling Stones, The Doors, Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan, Led Zeppelin, etc than listen to the acts you mentioned. Chuck Berry could not fill a stadium out on tour, while the Stones still can.
Bruce: "There's other things beside acclaimed music and fads. And if you're gonna call something "critically acclaimed" you have to go back to when it was current. If you check contemporary reviews of the Velvet Underground you'll find that not only were they NOT acclaimed, they were bashed by most critics. It's only when they started to become popular in the 1980s or so that critics jumped on the bandwagon."
True that there are other things besides acclaimed music and fads. And I can agree that not everything that now finds acclaim always did. Typically, something that is popular at the time that doesn't find acclaim doesn't remain in the cultural conversation. However, things that aren't popular, and that people may actively dislike at the time, such as the Velvet Underground, may find acclaim later, and after that will likely last. No one really discovered the poems of Emily Dickenson until 50 years after her death; now they will live on in eternity. Same thing with the Velvet Underground. But I don't see One Direction finding acclaim 50 years from now and then doing the same.
Bruce: "Horseshit. It survives because it's great, PERIOD. Nobody has ever made records that are as exciting as what Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Elvis, Jerry Lee and others were doing in the 50s."
Okay, I can agree that some of it is great and culturally canonical. That period will always be looked back on as very exciting for music. But the way you feel about how exciting that music is, is the way others feel about the Sex Pistols. And more kids and teens will discover music, themselves, catharsis, etc through punk then early rock and roll. That's not a value judgment, just the way it is. Many will also do the same through the Who, the Beatles, the Stones, Zeppelin, etc. It's just not typically happening through those 50s artists...the legacy is actually dwindling in many respects. I Love Lucy was one of the most watched television shows of its time, and will always be a classic television show, and people will always understand and latch on to some of its cultural references - but more people are doing that with the The Simpsons now then I Love Lucy, and more people will continue to discover it in the future. Sometimes the thing that set the standard gets kind of left behind a bit and viewed more as a cultural artifact than something people are still actively engaging with.
Bruce: "We don't use the ignorance of the general public to decide who is influential and who isn't. We don't consider George Thorogood to be more influential than the guys he copied his style from (Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf, Elmore James, John Lee Hooker) just because most white people in 2014 are more interested in hewaring another white person perorm the blues than they are in hearing the real thing."
Yes, you're right about that I guess. I'm not sure I get your point here actually. I guess one could argue that we should be looking at all those who influenced Elvis rather than Elvis if this is your logic? But of course we don't consider George Thorogood to be more influential than Muddy Waters or Howlin' Wolf, that's just silly sir. I think this depends on the case...
Bruce: "20 years from now more people will be familiar with the unaclaimed macarena than with any song by NMH. The unacclaimed Chicago is a much bigger act in 2014 than the highly acclaimed Television. The unacclaimed Kenny G is a much bigger act in 2014 than the highly acclaimed Specials."
True about Macarena...but doesn't mean it's more influential, or better...it's a dance craze. People who discover NMH are actually going to discover an emotional, artistic experience. I don't think anyone would argue that just because Transformers is a super famous movie it brings the same experience as discovering something that emotionally resonates with you. Both can be fine, but the thing that emotionally hits you is going to truly live on, not just peripherally but within people. That's what a lot of the acclaimed albums and songs do: they become something special in people's lives, and have a deep impact on them personally. Like the music of the 50s does for you, Bruce. And this is what makes it "the greatest" - this is just a collective group saying that this music really means a lot to them. This isn't the music that they hear a lot and enjoy - this is the music that moves them, that changes lives. A lot of people like music, but don't necessarily get that experience. Just because more people might discover and enjoy Katy Perry doesn't mean that they are feeling the deep emotional enjoyment others feel when discovering Radiohead. And some feel that deep connection for Katy Perry too, and that's cool as well. But it's interesting that certain artists seem to create this deep feeling for people more than others: Springsteen, Bowie, Prince, Beatles, Stones, Dylan, etc seem to be artists that really create this feeling for people...Velvet Underground and Television and Sex Pistols do too, whereas more well-known pop artists might not. And regarding your comments about the Sex Pistols: that's a band that has literally changed countless lives. It doesn't matter that they may not be on the radio...what matters is that there are kids out there, as there have been for over 30 years, who hear their music and think: I want to do something, be something, different than what I was before. I am changed. No offense to Bing Crosby, but I don't see a lot of people completely changing their lives after hearing "White Christmas." I know for many kids in the punk rock scene, the Sex Pistols literally changed their identity, their whole way of thinking about the world! Doesn't that make them one of the most important music acts of all time?
Music is a powerful, passionate thing, isn't it?
