Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

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Henrik
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Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Henrik »

In the attached Excel sheet I have over 4,000 songs that I plan to add in next year's site update. When I have added these 4,000 songs the algorithm will work even better. I will then rerun my preliminary score program and probably it will point out some additional songs that should be included at AM.

I will extend the AM all-time songs list from 3,000 to at least 8,000 songs. I want to have a top 10,000 songs list eventually, but I don't know if that will be in next year's update. After these 4,000 songs the acclaim becomes quite uncertain. It would be good if a few more big critics' lists would be added to AM first, to make sure the additional batch of songs have a decent acclaim.

I need help to complete the info in the spreadsheet. If you want to help me, tell everyone else what you're planning to do here in this thread and when you're done post the updated spreadsheet. It would also be great if someone could make sure that all work is included in one spreadsheet when all the work is done.

Thanks in advance!

PS. Of course, if you don't have time to help, you're still welcome to have a sneak preview of what's being added in the next update. :D
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Sweepstakes Ron »

I've looked at it a bit, and I like what I see. Hooray for "Hey Bulldog"!

What, though, is the purpose of the "female artist" column?
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Listyguy »

If this is still needed after the 80s poll is over, I'd be happy to help. In the mean time, I am thoroughly enjoying the list of new songs.
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by JimmyJazz »

Just out of curiosity, Henrik: How much will this expanded amount of songs affect the artist rankings?
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Pierre »

Interesting selection, a few WTF? too of course, but still strong contenders in. I might give a hand later, unfortunately I'm extremely busy now.

Quick remarks: "Jospehine Baker" should be "Josephine Baker" and "Kevin Sheilds" should be "Kevin Shields".
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Mattceinicram »

I find "Nookie" by Limp Bizkit the more surprising song here...I've also seen this on worst songs of all time lists
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

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I'll try to get the #'s and A done.
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by DDD troll account »

Henrik, what do I do if the track is by a male electronic artist but features a female vocalist (e.g. Aeroplane feat. Kathy Diamond). Female or not?
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Henrik »

pauldrach wrote:Henrik, what do I do if the track is by a male electronic artist but features a female vocalist (e.g. Aeroplane feat. Kathy Diamond). Female or not?
Good question. I'd say female.

Edit: And thanks for helping me!
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Henrik »

Sweepstakes Ron wrote:I've looked at it a bit, and I like what I see. Hooray for "Hey Bulldog"!

What, though, is the purpose of the "female artist" column?
It has an impact on the weights of the critics' lists. A list with a good mix of male and female artists might get a somewhat higher weight because of this.
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Henrik »

JimmyJazz wrote:Just out of curiosity, Henrik: How much will this expanded amount of songs affect the artist rankings?
I haven't decided this yet...
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Henrik »

Pierre wrote:a few WTF?
For sure.
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by DDD troll account »

Henrik wrote:
pauldrach wrote:Henrik, what do I do if the track is by a male electronic artist but features a female vocalist (e.g. Aeroplane feat. Kathy Diamond). Female or not?
Good question. I'd say female.

Edit: And thanks for helping me!
You're welcome! Another good question: For solo artists what exactly does "raised" mean? You already had Al Jolson as a Lithuanian but he moved to the US when he was about eight years old so is it really just where the artist spent the bulk of their early childhood up to the age of ~10? I'm asking this specifically because of Andy Williams, who was born in Iowa, attended high school in Ohio and finished it in California. Based on your Jolson choice I'd file him under Iowa.
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Henrik »

Al Jolson is a borderline case. Maybe he would be better categorized as USA (New York) instead, but in Andy Williams' case I think Iowa is the most suitable since he seemed to grow up there before high school and "Williams' first performance was in a children's choir at the local Presbyterian church.[4] He and his brothers formed The Williams Brothers quartet[4] in late 1938, and they performed on radio in the Midwest, first at WHO in Des Moines, Iowa" (Wikipedia).

There will be many grey zones in this matter. If you are not sure you can always mention this in column L.
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Nassim »

I'm taking B and C

For non english language do you need a yes/no, just a yes or an x, or the language to be written ?
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Pierre »

Henrik wrote:
Pierre wrote:a few WTF?
For sure.
...and actually a few that I didn't even bother to look for but I still saw. Gangnam Style? Never Gonna Give You Up? In what kind of geek lair have some of these lists been cooked? :angry-banghead:
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Henrik »

Nassim wrote:I'm taking B and C

For non english language do you need a yes/no, just a yes or an x, or the language to be written ?
Language written out please. If it's difficult (e.g. African languages) make a comment in column L.

Thanks Nassim!
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

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Henrik wrote:There will be many grey zones in this matter. If you are not sure you can always mention this in column L.
Oh, cool, I'll make excessive use of that.
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by DDD troll account »

OK, #'s and A are finished.
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Live in Phoenix »

Mattceinicram wrote:I find "Nookie" by Limp Bizkit the more surprising song here...I've also seen this on worst songs of all time lists
:( I mean, like, you know, um, could we have as many thousands of extra songs until the moment that Limp Bizkit shows up to the party?

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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Nassim »

Live in Phoenix wrote:
Mattceinicram wrote:I find "Nookie" by Limp Bizkit the more surprising song here...I've also seen this on worst songs of all time lists
:( I mean, like, you know, um, could we have as many thousands of extra songs until the moment that Limp Bizkit shows up to the party?

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Or we could just add a negative factor for appearing in "worst songs ever" lists (though it's actually Rollin' who appeared in Blender's and VH1's 50 worst songs ever)
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Nick »

Live in Phoenix wrote:
Mattceinicram wrote:I find "Nookie" by Limp Bizkit the more surprising song here...I've also seen this on worst songs of all time lists
:( I mean, like, you know, um, could we have as many thousands of extra songs until the moment that Limp Bizkit shows up to the party?
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Live in Phoenix »

Nick wrote:
Live in Phoenix wrote:
Mattceinicram wrote:I find "Nookie" by Limp Bizkit the more surprising song here...I've also seen this on worst songs of all time lists
:( I mean, like, you know, um, could we have as many thousands of extra songs until the moment that Limp Bizkit shows up to the party?
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Bruno »

This is great!
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Harold »

Live in Phoenix wrote:
Mattceinicram wrote:I find "Nookie" by Limp Bizkit the more surprising song here...I've also seen this on worst songs of all time lists
:( I mean, like, you know, um, could we have as many thousands of extra songs until the moment that Limp Bizkit shows up to the party?
The only good thing about "Nookie" is that it inspired a popular parody on the Dr. Demento radio show titled "I Did It All for the Wookiee." (In the chorus, the "yeah!" that followed "Stick it up your..." in the original was replaced with a sample of the Chewbacca voice.)
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Bruno »

MJ's "Off The Wall" is from 1979.
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

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I'll take D & E.
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Post by Nassim »

I just saw that Achy Breaky Heart is in the list too so I restate my idea of adding a negative factor for songs appearing in "worst songs ever" lists ^^
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

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Nassim wrote:I just saw that Achy Breaky Heart is in the list too so I restate my idea of adding a negative factor for songs appearing in "worst songs ever" lists ^^
Inclusion of worst-lists was discussed a long time ago and some people (I remember Harold specifically) were quite strongly against them, as they thought AM should only be about recommendations for - and not against - music. I'm a bit more positive to the addition, but it would require a lot of thought on how worst-lists should be weighted compared to the best-lists, and at least I don't think I want to prioritize this now.
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Henrik »

pauldrach wrote:I'll take D & E.
Thanks paul! And thanks for # and A!
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by DDD troll account »

Henrik wrote:
pauldrach wrote:I'll take D & E.
Thanks paul! And thanks for # and A!
You're very welcome!

D & E are finished.
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Pierre »

Nassim wrote:I just saw that Achy Breaky Heart is in the list too so I restate my idea of adding a negative factor for songs appearing in "worst songs ever" lists ^^
See the good side of things, Miley has nothing yet...

Henrik, I'll try to do F.
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Harold »

Pierre wrote:See the good side of things, Miley has nothing yet...
Not yet, but it wouldn't surprise me to see "We Can't Stop" or "Wrecking Ball" make a bunch of EOY lists for 2013.
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by JimmyJazz »

Harold wrote:
Pierre wrote:See the good side of things, Miley has nothing yet...
Not yet, but it wouldn't surprise me to see "We Can't Stop" or "Wrecking Ball" make a bunch of EOY lists for 2013.
Lol really?
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Pierre »

Ok, letter F is done. I had a few trouble:

- For Fleetwood Mac, to determine if it was female or male-fronted, I went by the lead singer on the song. A few are still ambiguous.

- Frankie Knuckles/Jamie Principle are not really a band, and the two artists come from different states. I chose Illinois as it's where the songs were recorded.

- Same goes for Freddie Slack & Ella Mae Morse. I put Wisconsin as it's where Freddie is from, and he's the leader of the band. But it's Ella who sings, so it's ambiguous.

- "Fascinating Rhythm" is attributed to Fred and Adele Astaire, but I saw that George Gershwin plays piano on the single, and he's credited on the vinyl (Google Images search). So he may get some credit for the song too, but it's up to you to decide...
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Listyguy »

JimmyJazz wrote:
Harold wrote:
Pierre wrote:See the good side of things, Miley has nothing yet...
Not yet, but it wouldn't surprise me to see "We Can't Stop" or "Wrecking Ball" make a bunch of EOY lists for 2013.
Lol really?
Yeah, some critics (like Rolling Stone and Paste) love putting shitty music on their EOY lists. Hence the reason "Call Me Maybe" and "Super Bass" are ranked higher than "Downtown Train".
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by JimmyJazz »

Listyguy wrote:
JimmyJazz wrote:
Harold wrote:
Not yet, but it wouldn't surprise me to see "We Can't Stop" or "Wrecking Ball" make a bunch of EOY lists for 2013.
Lol really?
Yeah, some critics (like Rolling Stone and Paste) love putting shitty music on their EOY lists. Hence the reason "Call Me Maybe" and "Super Bass" are ranked higher than "Downtown Train".
I liked the Carly Rae song enough, but seeing Nicki Minaj have a higher ranked song than Waits's masterpiece is pretty bad. It's funny, though, while outlets like RS and the Village Voice do this a lot, I don't believe Europe falls into this trend nearly as much.
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by DocBrown »

Pierre wrote: - For Fleetwood Mac, to determine if it was female or male-fronted, I went by the lead singer on the song. A few are still ambiguous.
Hmmm, how about Against Me! :?
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Pierre »

DocBrown wrote:
Pierre wrote: - For Fleetwood Mac, to determine if it was female or male-fronted, I went by the lead singer on the song. A few are still ambiguous.
Hmmm, how about Against Me! :?
Well, there's a before and after for him/her... For Fleetwood Mac, that's just that some songs are sung as harmony vocals duets.
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by DDD troll account »

Pierre wrote:- Frankie Knuckles/Jamie Principle are not really a band, and the two artists come from different states. I chose Illinois as it's where the songs were recorded.

- Same goes for Freddie Slack & Ella Mae Morse. I put Wisconsin as it's where Freddie is from, and he's the leader of the band. But it's Ella who sings, so it's ambiguous.
I think the "Country and state of featured artists" column is specifically for such cases.
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Pierre »

pauldrach wrote:
Pierre wrote:- Frankie Knuckles/Jamie Principle are not really a band, and the two artists come from different states. I chose Illinois as it's where the songs were recorded.

- Same goes for Freddie Slack & Ella Mae Morse. I put Wisconsin as it's where Freddie is from, and he's the leader of the band. But it's Ella who sings, so it's ambiguous.
I think the "Country and state of featured artists" column is specifically for such cases.
Yes, I didn't see it that way. However, for Freddie Slack & Ella Mae Morse, it's hard to determine who "fronts" the act, and for Frankie Knuckles/Jamie Principle, their contribution is even. That would be as hard as trying to determine who fronts between Alan Braxe and Fred Falke, for instance. So I'm still stuck.
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by DDD troll account »

I see. I don't recall whether there was such a case with the letters I filled in but I generally went with the artist who was listed first for the main column and any other artist listed afterwards had to live with the featured artists one.
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Henrik »

Pierre, I'm not sure myself in cases like these. I'm happy with whatever solution you choose, but please make a comment about your uncertainty in column L. Thanks!
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Pierre »

That's OK, Henrik, I already added the comments I made in my post in the Excel file. And you're welcome!
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Bruno »

Silly question: The Bubbling Under will be part of the update, right?
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

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Bruno wrote:Silly question: The Bubbling Under will be part of the update, right?
Yes
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

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Henrik wrote:
Bruno wrote:Silly question: The Bubbling Under will be part of the update, right?
Yes
Thanks!
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Bruce »

Pierre wrote: However, for Freddie Slack & Ella Mae Morse, it's hard to determine who "fronts" the act,
Not sure if this is the right song, but Slack was the main artist on their records:


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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by Pierre »

Bruce wrote:
Pierre wrote: However, for Freddie Slack & Ella Mae Morse, it's hard to determine who "fronts" the act,
Not sure if this is the right song, but Slack was the main artist on their records:
I believed so, and I chose Slack in the end. Which worked better for me as the exact location where Morse was raised is unclear, since she was born in Texas but joined Jimmy Dorsey when she was 14, and Dorsey was not from Texas as far as I can tell, maybe he was there in the 30s but I have no proof of that. Out of all entries, it's the one which took me the most time to do. Ella Mae Morse had a somewhat interesting life, though, and she's seen as one of the founders of rock'n'roll.
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Re: Help wanted - additional info for over 4,000 songs!

Post by slick »

Just as an FYI, Neil Diamond's "Solitary Man" is listed under 1970. I think this song was originally released in '66 and then re-released in '70.
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