Okay

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SavoyBG
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Okay

Post by SavoyBG » Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:19 pm

Henrik wrote:This is a place where we think music critics matter. If you don't then go to another forum.
Okay, if that's the way you want it. I should have known that a forum full of Europeon Communists would not let anybody come around and have different opinions than they do.

I'll leave you clowns here with your circle jerk, to believe that Nirvana is a greater artist than Frank Sinatra and Louis Armstrong and that Hendrix is greater than Bing Crosby and that Portishead is greater than the Mills Brothers. You probably also think that Lady GaGa is greater than Billie Holiday.

Most of the critics whose asses you guys lick have never even heard of many of the greatest recording artists of all time, They are 35 and 40 year old guys who think that music started with ancient acts like the Beatles and Bob Dylan. Even the older ones like Marsh and Christgau know little about the early 50s and before. They think music started with Elvis Presley and Bill Haley.

This site is a joke, claiming that these are the "Most Recommended Music of all time." Meanwhile all time standards like "Star Dust" by Artie Shaw are not even mentioned.

According to your dogshit artist rankings, Beck is greater than madonna, the Pixies are greater than Otis Redding, Whoever the fuck Blur is, they are greater than Ray Charles, and Pavement is greater than Sam Cooke and Little Richard. The Specials are greater than Muddy Waters, the Temptations and Smokey Robinson and the Miracles. Those rankings are a laughing stock.

Since I know that Henrik is too much of a cunt to let this post stay in the forum, I am going to PM it to as many of you as I can before I post it.

You guys can go back to sucking each other's dicks and believing that the music you listen to in 2013 is the greatest music of all time.

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Re: Okay

Post by Poliuks » Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:31 pm

Thank you.

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Re: Okay

Post by Brad » Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:37 pm

"you are 100% wrong"

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Listyguy
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Re: Okay

Post by Listyguy » Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:41 pm

How old are you? 55? Because you're acting like you're about 15.
And in the words of a band I'm sure you've never heard of, "Good Riddance".

PS Hendrix is better than Bing Crosby. Get over it.

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Re: Okay

Post by jamieW » Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:46 pm

My favorite part was his reference to "European Communists." Apparently, his knowledge of world government is equal to his knowledge of modern music.

Anyway, I always suspected that a post like this was coming from him. Our true nature always comes out in the end. At least, we can all agree that we're better off without attitudes like this in a uniquely friendly forum.

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Re: Okay

Post by Sweepstakes Ron » Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:52 pm

Did you not read the FAQ?

Q: Is Acclaimed Music the final word of the best albums and songs in rock history?

A: There is no final word. We all have our own favourites, and our musical taste changes over the years. The Acclaimed Music lists also change every time new critics lists are included so ther will never be a definitive list.
"Music is powerful, man. It speaks to a primal pit in our brains. It makes anyone want to get up and get their knees going!"
— Jake the Dog

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Re: Okay

Post by Harold » Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:31 pm

Shall we let Rodgers & Hammerstein have the final word? Yes, let's!

************************************************************************************
There's a sad sort of clanging
From the clock in the hall
And the bells in the steeple too,
And up in the nurs'ry an absurd little bird
Is popping out to say "coocoo".

Regretfully they tell us,
But firmly they compel us
To say goodby to you.

So long, farewell, Auf wiedersehen, good night,
I hate to go and leave this pretty sight.
So long, farewell, Auf wiedersehen, adieu,
Adieu, adieu, to yieu and yieu and yieu.

So long, farewell, Au'voir, auf wiedersehen,
I'd like to stay and taste my first champagne
So long, farewell, Auf wiedersehen, goodbye,
I leave and heave a sigh and say goodbye,
Good bye

I'm glad to go,
I cannot tell a lie.
I flit, I float,
I fleetly flee, I fly.

The sun has gone to bed and so must I
So long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, goodbye,
Goodbye,
Goodbye,
Goodbye!

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Dan
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Re: Okay

Post by Dan » Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:43 pm

Yes, Rodgers & Hammerstein, and this...
...will keep us together.

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Re: Okay

Post by Romain » Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:55 pm

Aaaaaahhhhh SavoyBS, your last post is your best post! :D

Thank you, yes thank you for this huge funny moment.

Au revoir, bon voyage!


P.S. : if only you understood that almost everyone here loves the music you love. :music-listening:

P.P.S. : "Okay, if that's the way you want it. I should have known that a forum full of Europeon Communists would not let anybody come around and have different opinions than they do" open your eyes.....camarade SavoyBS.

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Live in Phoenix
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Re: Okay

Post by Live in Phoenix » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:20 pm

....................Isn't this site described and detailed on the front page?

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Re: Okay

Post by Stephan » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:23 pm

Ciao!

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Re: Okay

Post by nicolas » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:25 pm

I knew it would end like this. But if it's a dogshit site, why did you hang around for these past months?

I also love early music, and I think that some of what you say is right, but the insulting way you say it ruins it all. We don't need insulting people here. Bye

Image

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Re: Okay

Post by nicolas » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:44 pm

BTW I just saw the big argument on the other thread.
I didn't read everyhting (too long) but you were right guys.

To add a more positive note, this week has been a happy one for Moonbeam (who's a father now) and me (I'm an official teacher now : I have passed my exams with a good ranking (#21 out of 1200!!) that allows me to chose a good teaching position in a school not too far from my home. !!!!! I even got the maximum mark in math (for the first time in my life) and music (which is less surprising)

:music-rockon: :happy-partydance: :obscene-drinkingcheers: :laughing-rollingyellow:

(that's how I feel)

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Re: Okay

Post by HRS » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:48 pm

nicolas wrote: To add a more positive note, this week has been a happy one for Moonbeam (who's a father now) and me (I'm an official teacher now : I have passed my exams with a good ranking (#21 out of 1200!!) that allows me to chose a good teaching position in a school not too far from my home. !!!!! I even got the maximum mark in math (for the first time in my life) and music (which is less surprising)

:music-rockon: :happy-partydance: :obscene-drinkingcheers: :laughing-rollingyellow:

(that's how I feel)
Congratulations for both of you guys! :happy-bouncyblue:

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Re: Okay

Post by jamieW » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:49 pm

nicolas wrote:BTW I just saw the big argument on the other thread.
I didn't read everyhting (too long) but you were right guys.
To add a more positive note, this week has been a happy one for Moonbeam (who's a father now) and me (I'm an official teacher now : I have passed my exams with a good ranking (#21 out of 1200!!) that allows me to chose a good teaching position in a school not too far from my home. !!!!! I even got the maximum mark in math (for the first time in my life) and music (which is less surprising)

:music-rockon: :happy-partydance: :obscene-drinkingcheers: :laughing-rollingyellow:

(that's how I feel)
More great news!! Congratulations, Nicolas!!!! That news makes this entire thread created by the always-negative SavoyBG become a positive one. Best of luck to you. I know you'll make an outstanding teacher!!!!

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Re: Okay

Post by Mindrocker » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:02 pm

Whoa, this argument with SavoyBG which's been going on for the last couple of weeks has come to a spectacularly crashing end!!
Congrats, Nicolas and Moonbeam.
Last edited by Mindrocker on Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dan
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Re: Okay

Post by Dan » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:16 pm

So, a :whistle: has left the forum and two great guys have had good news. All the best to you both, Moonbeam and Nicolas!
...will keep us together.

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Re: Okay

Post by Henrik » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:21 pm

Wow Nicolas, you are fantastic!

To you:
:happy-wavemulticolor:

To everyone:
:romance-grouphug:
Everyone you meet fights a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. Always.

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Re: Okay

Post by Henry » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:35 pm

Congrats to Nicolas and Moonbeam.

The discourse I encounter on so many websites is replete with needless insults and taunting.

For example. Savoy's approach is the norm on the Yahoo comment boards.

I hope the next person from my generation who participates in the forum will comport him or herself in a manner that is more acceptable to the rest of the forum.

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Re: Okay

Post by Henry » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:41 pm

SavoyBG wrote:
Henrik wrote:This is a place where we think music critics matter. If you don't then go to another forum.
to believe that Nirvana is a greater artist than Frank Sinatra and Louis Armstrong and that Hendrix is greater than Bing Crosby and that Portishead is greater than the Mills Brothers. You probably also think that Lady GaGa is greater than Billie Holiday.

Most of the critics whose asses you guys lick have never even heard of many of the greatest recording artists of all time, They are 35 and 40 year old guys who think that music started with ancient acts like the Beatles and Bob Dylan. Even the older ones like Marsh and Christgau know little about the early 50s and before. They think music started with Elvis Presley and Bill Haley.

This site is a joke, claiming that these are the "Most Recommended Music of all time." Meanwhile all time standards like "Star Dust" by Artie Shaw are not even mentioned.

According to your dogshit artist rankings, Beck is greater than madonna, the Pixies are greater than Otis Redding, Whoever the fuck Blur is, they are greater than Ray Charles, and Pavement is greater than Sam Cooke and Little Richard. The Specials are greater than Muddy Waters, the Temptations and Smokey Robinson and the Miracles. Those rankings are a laughing stock.
As obnoxious as Savoy has been, he may have a point or two worth considering. The proliferation of critical analysis of newer songs, likely tends to skew AM's rankings towards the new. The many examples Savoy describes in his diatribe are not without merit.

Therefore, it may be worth considering (for a nanosecond or so at least) whether the weight given to reviews of newer performers, albums and songs should be diminished in some manner relative to the more sparse reviews of older music.

I very much appreciated the knowledge Savoy had of songs in the 50's and earlier. It's a shame he could not tone his act down just a bit to get along with the rest of us.

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Re: Okay

Post by Miguel » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:47 pm

Congratulations, Dan and Moonbeam! :banana-dreads:

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Re: Okay

Post by Henrik » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:59 pm

Henry wrote:Therefore, it may be worth considering (for a nanosecond or so at least) whether the weight given to reviews of newer performers, albums and songs should be diminished in some manner relative to the more sparse reviews of older music.
Is this for me and the site update or to all of us for our future forum polls? If it's for me I'm not sure what you mean, as the last update did not rate the '00s higher than the '80s and '90s and considerably lower than the '60s and '70s. I think pre-rock music (or rather non-rock music from any era) is underrated, but to upgrade other genres I need more critics' lists that aren't limited to rock.
Everyone you meet fights a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. Always.

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Re: Okay

Post by John » Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:11 pm

nicolas wrote:BTW I just saw the big argument on the other thread.
I didn't read everyhting (too long) but you were right guys.

To add a more positive note, this week has been a happy one for Moonbeam (who's a father now) and me (I'm an official teacher now : I have passed my exams with a good ranking (#21 out of 1200!!) that allows me to chose a good teaching position in a school not too far from my home. !!!!! I even got the maximum mark in math (for the first time in my life) and music (which is less surprising)

:music-rockon: :happy-partydance: :obscene-drinkingcheers: :laughing-rollingyellow:

(that's how I feel)

First off, congrats Nicolas and Moonbeam!

So Nicolas, your ranking in the exams determine what school you can teach at? Or does it just help, like exam scores help you get into a good university?

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Re: Okay

Post by Amoux » Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:13 pm

It's a real shame that you are leaving SavoyBG. I've discovered many gems from your lists. I even agree with some of your opinions: I think there is actually quite a lot of truth with your post. It's just unfortunate that you act like such a jerk. =(

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Re: Okay

Post by Hymie » Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:26 am

Amoux wrote:It's a real shame that you are leaving SavoyBG. I've discovered many gems from your lists. I even agree with some of your opinions: I think there is actually quite a lot of truth with your post. It's just unfortunate that you act like such a jerk. =(
I'm new here, and I actually came and joined the forum because Bruce (SavoyBG) mentioned it in another site. I hope he comes back. He's the most knowledgable person I've ever encountered when it comes to early rock and roll from the 40s, 50s and even the 60s. Yes, he can be very blunt and downright rude sometimes, but I ignore that stuff and just pick his brain for music recommendations.

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Re: Okay

Post by stone37 » Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:52 am

While Savoy could have been far more diplomatic and far less dogmatic, I must concur with a point made by Henry (and by John in another thread). Bruce did/does have a point about pre-1955 music being seriously undervalued on AM lists. That's not the fault of Henrik or the site; its the fault of "all-time" critical lists that completely ignore decades of recorded music. That said, I wish Savoy could have appreciated AM for what it is: an enlightening snapshot of the critical canon as it currently stands. For me, there are dozens of songs in my all-time top 3000 that I had never heard or never really gave much attention until I started using this site. So, in short, farewell to Savoy and a big thanks to Henrik.

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Re: Okay

Post by JR » Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:31 am

Wow. I though things as cooled down in that one thread some months ago, but apparently not. There is a way to express a viewpoint and not insult anyone- clearly, this poster didn't have a clue how to go about that. Ah, well.

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Re: Okay

Post by Bruno » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:24 am

Bruce (Savoy) is a nice guy, but unfortunately, he has this way rude to some people who do not agree with some of his ideas and it ends up hurting himself.

I admire his knowledge of music until the 60s, if he wanted to be a little more thoughtful could contribute much more to the PM, as he most of the time in DDD.

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Re: Okay

Post by Henry » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:30 am

Henrik wrote:
Henry wrote:Therefore, it may be worth considering (for a nanosecond or so at least) whether the weight given to reviews of newer performers, albums and songs should be diminished in some manner relative to the more sparse reviews of older music.
Is this for me and the site update or to all of us for our future forum polls? If it's for me I'm not sure what you mean, as the last update did not rate the '00s higher than the '80s and '90s and considerably lower than the '60s and '70s. I think pre-rock music (or rather non-rock music from any era) is underrated, but to upgrade other genres I need more critics' lists that aren't limited to rock.
Henrik - it appears that you far exceeded the nanosecond I requested. Thanks!

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Re: Okay

Post by Hymie » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:41 am

After catching up with the arguments here between SavoyBG and others, I think he does have a point. Maybe it's me, but I don't see how ANYBODY can believe that a band like Nirvana with only about 40 tracks can possibly be more significant than all time legneds like Sinatra and Crosby. Crosby set the standard for how songs were gonna be sung and brought the vocalist out of the dark ages when everybody sounded like Billy Murray and Jolson. Bing was one of the biggest influences on Sinatra, and was even a big influence on several early rock and rollers. Roy Brown even named Crosby as his favorite singer, and Elvis was a big fan.

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Re: Okay

Post by Hymie » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:45 am

Maybe whoever does the calculating for this site can come up with a fair way to compensate for the fact that there were no albums during the prime of the careers of people like Crosby and Armstrong and the Mills Brothers. It's not fair for thr newer acts to get big credit for highly acclaimed albums and then also get other credit for the songs that are on those albums.

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Re: Okay

Post by luvulongTIM » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:59 am

Well as unpopular as he may be as least he's getting plenty of responses. I can hear crickets chirping after either posting a NEW subject or responding LOL! (I used to be Tim E and Rodneyontheblock, not that anyone would remember) I was thinking of starting two new polls of my own because I love polls (no gay jokes please) but no one posting would kill whatever self confidance I have which you no if bad when you're actually ENVIOUS of someone like SavoyBG :o
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Re: Okay

Post by nicolas » Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:58 am

I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding here. The master lists in Acclaimed Music are the albums and songs lists.

The artists list is made out of these previous rankings, not out of critics' lists. It is nor per se an Acclaimed Music list. So it shouldn't be taken as "the most acclaimed artists". That's why it takes too much into account "album" artists. But it never had the claim of being an objective "best artists in the world" list

So I think this argument was a little biased and that is something that Bruce didn't see. Too bad.

And let me tell you one more thing : this forum has always been a nice and friendly place. As a moderator and senior member of this forum, I can say (and I'm sure a lot of people will back me on this) that this friendliness is the trademark of AMF.
There is no place for rude, patronizing and insulting people here, may they be scholars or not.

That's the way I see things. I'd rather welcome 20 new members with little knowledge but motivation and good behavior than a grouchy scholar.
I can't ignore bad behavior. We don't. Maybe that's how we can still convince ourselves that we're still human beings and not entirely eaten up by nerdness and seymourness. :lol:

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Re: Okay

Post by irreduciblekoan » Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:16 am

You're right. This site does claim that these albums are the most recommended in the world. No more, no less. You can like the music you like (everybody has their tastes), but yes, these are the most recommended albums whether you like it or not. I think that is all the site is trying to say. Henrik would never deny that the lists have a certain bias. Hell, I'll go even further than you, Savoy. I can trash on your tastes as well, and say that Billie Holliday and Frank Sinatra have nothing on Schubert and Wagner. But you see, we can go on and on like that and miss what this site IS good for, which is discovering more rock and pop with some experimental, electronica and jazz thrown in. The best albums that were recorded as original albums (so that would necessarily be biased towards albums post-1955).

So go enjoy what you enjoy, and we'll do the same. Don't pretend that this site doesn't have a good reason to exist, that it doesn't have its strengths, because Henrik never pretended that his site was the be-all, end-all of the world's best music.

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Re: Okay

Post by Romain » Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:48 am

nicolas wrote:BTW I just saw the big argument on the other thread.
I didn't read everyhting (too long) but you were right guys.

To add a more positive note, this week has been a happy one for Moonbeam (who's a father now) and me (I'm an official teacher now : I have passed my exams with a good ranking (#21 out of 1200!!) that allows me to chose a good teaching position in a school not too far from my home. !!!!! I even got the maximum mark in math (for the first time in my life) and music (which is less surprising)

:music-rockon: :happy-partydance: :obscene-drinkingcheers: :laughing-rollingyellow:

(that's how I feel)
Un grand bravo à toi Nicolas. :P
And I wish a lot of hapiness for Moonbeam and all his family.

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Re: Okay

Post by Barry » Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:06 am

SavoyBG wrote:
Henrik wrote:This is a place where we think music critics matter. If you don't then go to another forum.
Okay, if that's the way you want it. I should have known that a forum full of Europeon Communists would not let anybody come around and have different opinions than they do.

I'll leave you clowns here with your circle jerk, to believe that Nirvana is a greater artist than Frank Sinatra and Louis Armstrong and that Hendrix is greater than Bing Crosby and that Portishead is greater than the Mills Brothers. You probably also think that Lady GaGa is greater than Billie Holiday.

Most of the critics whose asses you guys lick have never even heard of many of the greatest recording artists of all time, They are 35 and 40 year old guys who think that music started with ancient acts like the Beatles and Bob Dylan. Even the older ones like Marsh and Christgau know little about the early 50s and before. They think music started with Elvis Presley and Bill Haley.

This site is a joke, claiming that these are the "Most Recommended Music of all time." Meanwhile all time standards like "Star Dust" by Artie Shaw are not even mentioned.

According to your dogshit artist rankings, Beck is greater than madonna, the Pixies are greater than Otis Redding, Whoever the fuck Blur is, they are greater than Ray Charles, and Pavement is greater than Sam Cooke and Little Richard. The Specials are greater than Muddy Waters, the Temptations and Smokey Robinson and the Miracles. Those rankings are a laughing stock.

Since I know that Henrik is too much of a cunt to let this post stay in the forum, I am going to PM it to as many of you as I can before I post it.

You guys can go back to sucking each other's dicks and believing that the music you listen to in 2013 is the greatest music of all time.
Well, so long then you fucking retard. Hope you enjoy your time fantasizing about licking Bing Crosby's excrements. Try 4chan, they'll love a shithead like you in such a place.

Sorry guys, it had to be said.

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Re: Okay

Post by Honorio » Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:53 pm

Wow, nicolas, that’s fantastic (and impressive, 21/1200!!!!). I’m the second happiest person in the world right now (because you are the first). Or maybe I’m the third, because Sophie should be now jumping in joy. So you are going to be able to work near Châtillon! That’s absolutely great! Congratulations!!!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

But on the other hand I got a bitter taste in my mouth because of the way the SavoyBG affair ended. I’m aware that my words got a major influence in this abrupt and unpleasant ending. And I’m sorry for the confrontational tone of my words but let me say that I don’t regret having said what I said. Of course I don’t have any problem with SavoyBG taste in music (in fact I was going to listen to his all-time song list and make some comments like I did for Fred, Slick or Henry). But I had a big problem about him trying to pass his (subjective) list as an (objective) measurement of greatness in music. I just tried to showcase that his arguments were fallacious and inconsistent but probably I used a tone as arrogant and hateful as his’. Anyway it’s obvious that he over-reacted in a quite silly way (European communists? really?). Well, what’s done is done. Bye, SavoyBG.

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Re: Okay

Post by Mindrocker » Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:59 pm

Hymie wrote:I'm new here, and I actually came and joined the forum because Bruce (SavoyBG) mentioned it in another site. I hope he comes back. He's the most knowledgable person I've ever encountered when it comes to early rock and roll from the 40s, 50s and even the 60s.
But what's the use of that when most people who frequent this forum are 20-30 somethings and of whom the vast majority don't give a flying damn about the 40s or 50s? Isn't it the same as if I go to a teens site and start raving about Can or Pharaoh Sanders and get mad when I discover the only thing the kids are interested in are Rihanna and Nicki Minaj? Let's face it, AMF is not the right forum for SavoyBG. Also, his knowledgability is disputable. If you claim you're such an expert on music and in the same paragraph dismiss Radiohead as being an insignificant act who never even appeared in a top 30, while in reality they had no less than five no.1 spots in the UK album charts and two chart toppers in the US, well...excuse me, but then your so called expertise is embarassingly crappy.
Actually, I'm not even very impressed by the knowledge of his favorite periods. I always kept a distance to SavoyBG and the threads he made 'cause from day one it was clear to me this guy is way too pompous for his and my own good, but since he's so frank calling us AMF-ers clowns and cunts maybe it's about time to confront him with some harsh realities as well (and I'm pretty sure he's reading every line that's posted in this thread). I can understand how a novice may be impressed by his long lists, but I'm one of the persons on this forum who also happen to know a thing or two about the 50s and pre-rock 'n' roll era. And I can tell you, for a 50s/40s fan his lists contain very few surprises or new insights. Just the regular names that always pop up on these kind of rankings. If, like SavoyBG, you put too much emphasis on sales, popularity, grammy awards and stuff you take out all the surprises and end up with a compromised, predictable and plain boring list. I was particularly disappointed by his 1900-1949 list, which in fact was just his favorite 40s picks with the odd 20s/30s entry thrown in for good measure. If you compare that with the ones we, 'AMF amateurs' he so looked down upon, made during the 1900-1949 poll in 2010, than you can only conclude that our own individual lists are so much more adventurous and really covering the whole spectrum of the period 1900-1949. And while we're on this subject, I would suggest to Honorio to re-install the original 1900-1949 final list, because it looked better without the inclusion of Savoy's effort . And also because the deadline for participation in that poll has expired already more than two years ago.

One thing however I must say in SavoyBG's defence. He certainly knew how to stir things up on the forum. Just like everybody else I like the friendly atmosphere which is commonplace here, but sometimes it's not a bad thing if a bit of polemics gets thrown in the mix.

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Re: Okay

Post by Brad » Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:23 pm

I've learned way more about pre-1950's music from the two guys who just posted (Honorio and Mindrocker) than I ever would have from the other guy, even if I hadn't avoided him from the onset. Mindrocker is right - his lists were long, but actually really not very insightful at all. As soon as you throw that pompous, patronizing attitude on top, you've completely lost me (and apparently 95% of the forum).

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Re: Okay

Post by Hymie » Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:24 pm

Barry wrote:Well, so long then you fucking retard.
I am very offended by the use of the word retard in this way. I have a retarded brother. For you to call a normal person a "retard" infers that my brother is some kind of lowlife or loser because of a condition he was born with.

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Re: Okay

Post by Harold » Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:48 pm

Hymie wrote:
Barry wrote:Well, so long then you fucking retard.
I am very offended by the use of the word retard in this way. I have a retarded brother. For you to call a normal person a "retard" infers that my brother is some kind of lowlife or loser because of a condition he was born with.
Completely agreed - in fact, I thought Barry's entire post was inappropriate. Not only that, it was unnecessary. We've already done more than our fair share of ding-dong-the-witch-is-dead'ing here, and for it to keep going just seems like gratuitous piling on. There's no reason for this thread to continue, and I think Henrik should lock it.

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Re: Okay

Post by Gillingham » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:29 pm

Hahaha this guy must be a troll. Good one.

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Re: Okay

Post by Jirin » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:38 pm

Nobody's mad at you because you disagree with us Savoy. People are mad at you because of the attitude with which you disagree with us.

You start forum games then hedge the rules to make them turn out the way you prefer them to. You insult peoples' intelligence for liking different music than you do, and find any way possible to imply we only disagree with you because we are sheepishly following an elitist group of critics.

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Re: Okay

Post by TimmyWing » Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:43 pm

I think what got me the most was his shameless plugging of Digital Dream Door - not a bad website by any means (in fact their classical and electronic lists are actually quite useful), but it just reinforces the way he was always so stubborn and up himself by constantly referring to lists on which he supposedly had some input. Especially when he was doing so in a way that seemed to deliberately front with the purpose of this website. Say what you will about them but the Acclaimed lists are clearly more scientifically collated than most, as opposed to a few guys sat around deciding who the most 'influential' or 'popular' artists of all time are.

Speaking of 'all time' - the way he was so attached to the music of his younger years is understandable, especially since he grew up in the age of classic rock. And being obsessed with music from the '40s and '50s is a given too, if he was brought up on the music of his parents. And I wouldn't have minded if he stuck to discussing that era; but he so fiercely denied the validity of modern music that it was hard to see him as anything more than an obstinate, blinkered asshole. There's a big difference between saying, "Oh, I haven't really listened to Radiohead much," or even "I heard a bit of their music but I don't see what the big deal is," and saying "I've never heard anything by Radiohead, but they must suck because all the kids like them and not the Mills Brothers. Also the musicians from the '40s, '50s and '60s have made all the music anyone should ever need to hear in their life."

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Re: Okay

Post by Henrik » Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:50 pm

Harold wrote:
Hymie wrote:
Barry wrote:Well, so long then you fucking retard.
I am very offended by the use of the word retard in this way. I have a retarded brother. For you to call a normal person a "retard" infers that my brother is some kind of lowlife or loser because of a condition he was born with.
Completely agreed - in fact, I thought Barry's entire post was inappropriate. Not only that, it was unnecessary. We've already done more than our fair share of ding-dong-the-witch-is-dead'ing here, and for it to keep going just seems like gratuitous piling on. There's no reason for this thread to continue, and I think Henrik should lock it.
I see no reason to close this thread now, and I certainly hope I don't have to later on. We should of course all act like we wanted SavoyBG to.
Everyone you meet fights a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. Always.

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Re: Okay

Post by Jirin » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:26 pm

There are things in common between the kinds of music Savoy doesn't like. He doesn't like sad music, he doesn't like noisy music, and he doesn't like off beat or off key music.

There's nothing wrong with not liking those things. But he presented his case first by using sales figures as gospel while still dissing Nirvana and then accusing us of liking Lady Gaga, then by citing historical influence and lasting appeal while dissing Velvet Underground and including songs by Oasis and Outkast. For any given argument, he chose a different metric to use as gospel, which was inconsistent with the metric he chose in previous arguments, and insulted everybody who proposed any metric other than the one he was using at the given moment.

He could have just said "I don't like sad, noisy music" and nobody would have been mad.

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Re: Okay

Post by Hymie » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:29 pm

TimmyWing wrote: Say what you will about them but the Acclaimed lists are clearly more scientifically collated than most, as opposed to a few guys sat around deciding who the most 'influential' or 'popular' artists of all time are.
Aren't critics essentially just "guys sitting around" making lists of their favorite albums and favorite songs?

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Re: Okay

Post by Hymie » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:36 pm

Jirin wrote:There are things in common between the kinds of music Savoy doesn't like. He doesn't like sad music, he doesn't like noisy music, and he doesn't like off beat or off key music.
I think your generalizations are wrong here, From what I've seen him say in other forums, he's a big fan of many records where the singer(s) are clearly off key. And many of his favorite blues and doo wop ballads are very sad indeed. I think he just does not like the modern sounding digital recording standards. I don't like them much myself. The percussion is too sharp sounding and too high in the mix, IMO. I much prefer the way that analog recordings sounded.

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Re: Okay

Post by Jirin » Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:07 pm

Hymie wrote:
TimmyWing wrote: Say what you will about them but the Acclaimed lists are clearly more scientifically collated than most, as opposed to a few guys sat around deciding who the most 'influential' or 'popular' artists of all time are.
Aren't critics essentially just "guys sitting around" making lists of their favorite albums and favorite songs?
In the case of AM, it's several thousand guys, all with their own unique tastes, range of exposure, and personal histories. No one individual's biases significantly change the full list. There are people with the same tastes as Savoy who've made lists and AM counts them equally.

And I can't make an argument for why the site should count critic lists and not take popular votes like RYM (Rate your music, by the way, is entirely driven by popular vote and places OK Computer as #1 of all time). All I can say is, critic driven lists have driven me to better discoveries than popular driven lists. This site is particularly useful to me because it focuses on critics. Critics have heard both the popular stuff and the nichey obscure stuff, and judge them side by side without worrying about whether enough producers have paid Clear Channel to make their radio stations play it so it can appear on the charts. So when I'm looking to branch out to new styles, they're the ones I look to, not because writing for a magazine magically makes your opinion count more, but because they've listened to all sorts of music equally.

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Re: Okay

Post by Blanco » Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:22 pm

I only regret not being able to use my gifs. :(

Anyway ... A picture is worth a thousand words, and I think this picture sums up the conclusion of this whole situation:

Image


Changing the subject,
Congratulations to Moonbeam and Nicolas!

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