Search found 52 matches
- Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:13 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Most Overated Albums of All Time
- Replies: 30
- Views: 23214
Re: Most Overated Albums of All Time
You want overrated look to who came in at #1 on last months 1980s poll. In fact he was highly influenced my Mr. Beefheart but I'd listen to the worst recordings of Beefheart's career over anything Waits put out. Ironic Rod Stewart covered one of his songs. Two artists that could not be further on ea...
- Mon May 20, 2013 2:24 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Most Overated Albums of All Time
- Replies: 30
- Views: 23214
Re: Most Overated Albums of All Time
I agree completely with what was said about Nick Drake, Pavement and even Loveless which does have some great tracks. As far as Pavement is concerned I do sometimes fancy the lofi genre at times as Guided by Voices, Magnetic Fields and Apples in Stereo rank amongst my all time faves. I have such a b...
- Fri May 17, 2013 1:46 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Songs and Albums of 1983 Poll
- Replies: 86
- Views: 120046
Re: Songs and Albums of 1983 Poll
The only album for this year that looks remotely interesting is in my opinion what I would consider the most UNACCLAIMED groundbreaking album in Alternative Rock History and that would be Head Over Heels by the Cocteau Twins. This was the FIRST from begining to end DREAMPOP ALBUM EVER!!!!! One of th...
- Mon May 13, 2013 7:39 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Albums of 2013
- Replies: 336
- Views: 230378
Re: Albums of 2013
Forgive me for sounding like a broken record but I'm really digging the new (SURPRISE) Camera Obscura single. If the rest of their records rocks as mildly as this number this could be their version of the Life Pursuit :-) I'll be honest, I haven't been having the best few years and listening to musi...
- Wed May 01, 2013 2:38 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Songs and Albums of 1982 Poll
- Replies: 87
- Views: 59401
Re: Songs and Albums of 1982 Poll
Can't stand the 80s for the most part but sadly this was the year I was born so I feel obliged to participate:( 1. Kate Bush- The Dreaming 2. Michael Jackson- Thriller 3. Roxy Music- Avalon 4. Siouxsie and the Banshees- Kiss in the Dream House 5. the Cocteau Twins- Garlands (This wasn't quite consid...
- Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:35 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Roger Ebert
- Replies: 5
- Views: 5049
Roger Ebert
Other than the fact that he was the father of all critics musically he was imfamously noted for calling the Graduate soundtrack a unmemorable throwaway. That and he had his Oscar preshow where he got to select whom he thought should win at the Oscar for each catagory which included BEST SONG and his...
- Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:58 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Recent Purchases
- Replies: 123
- Views: 83260
Re: Recent Purchases
The new Everything Everything and a couple of Postmarks recordings, the Postmarks self titled LP and their second album after that one. Also the SINGLE to the Stone Roses' Elephant Stone. I actually did not know the song isn't officially included in the UK album so if I were in the UK Stone Roses' s...
- Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:51 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Albums of 2013
- Replies: 336
- Views: 230378
Re: Albums of 2013
Loveless sounds more like Cocteaus and JAMC than Nevermind ever did the Pixies Blown a Wish is very Cocteau Twins for example and vocally sorry but Belinda sounds like a watered down Liz Frasier. Sonic Youth and Lush also come to mind influencially and I know MBV predates Lush but their early EPs pr...
- Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:47 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Albums of 2013
- Replies: 336
- Views: 230378
Re: Albums of 2013
Looking forward to listening to the new Veronica Falls. Like most Scotts they know how to write a hell of a hook. In fact with all the talk of the new MBV and how innovative and influencial Loveless was I can't help but roll my eyes a little even though I do enjoy many of the songs off of it. Sounds...
- Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:51 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Recent Purchases
- Replies: 123
- Views: 83260
Re: Recent Purchases
John Mark Nelson's Waiting and Waiting which btw scored ridiculously low in the Underrated Albums of 2013. Finally a male songwriter I can actually get behind and nobody else appreciates his genius. It's like Robbie Williams all over again;)
*Camera Shy by the Lockets
*Camera Shy by the Lockets
- Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:23 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: What was #1 on the day you were born?
- Replies: 33
- Views: 23065
Re: What was #1 on the day you were born?
Centerfold-the J. Geils Band (31 years ago today actually. I'm a groundhog:)
- Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:46 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: What Albums Are You Looking Forward to in 2013?
- Replies: 19
- Views: 15320
Re: What Albums Are You Looking Forward to in 2013?
Sort of off topic but I noticed the band Brokeback and Mountains both released new albums today:)
- Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:44 pm
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Recent Purchases
- Replies: 123
- Views: 83260
Re: Recent Purchases
Well I was going to purchase a Spotify account so I didn't have to purchase anything else for a month but the App won't accept my ITunes card. This is what I get for trying to be a good boy and giving up those EVIL torrent sites :( I guess the Best of The Catherine Wheel will be my next purchase eve...
- Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:29 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Who's who in Acclaimed Music Forums : the demographic thread
- Replies: 144
- Views: 92747
Re: Who's who in Acclaimed Music Forums : the demographic th
My name is Tim,30,from East LA (our unofficial theme song is Look Out Weekend). And yes Morrissey is a God over here. Celebrating my 10th year on this site. Besides this site I learned everything I know about music from my idol Rodney Bingenheimer on KROQ. Yes I've had dinner with him at Canters whi...
- Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:07 pm
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: 90's album poll : the top 40
- Replies: 117
- Views: 84319
Re: 90's album poll : the top 40
Great to see Spiritualized score so well. Still kind of unsettling knowing it would have made the top 25 it someone had voted on time;) btw. ALL 53 of the albums I ranked I generally enjoy so my unranked I've either not heard or don't care for at all.
- Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:34 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: 90's album poll : the top 40
- Replies: 117
- Views: 84319
Re: 90's album poll : the top 40
Right on about Neutral Milk Hotel Nicolas. One of the most overrated bands of all time (the sound of Ben Stein fronting Sonic Youth;) followed by one of the most overrated albums of all time. A hipster's wet dream.
- Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:50 pm
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: The Best Albums and Songs of the 90's - FINAL Round
- Replies: 80
- Views: 48302
Re: The Best Albums and Songs of the 90's - FINAL Round
Did you get mine? I got one email saying you got mine and one saying you didn't.
- Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:40 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Rank the Songs: Radiohead's OK Computer
- Replies: 26
- Views: 25529
Re: Rank the Songs: Radiohead's OK Computer
1. Let Down
2. Exit Music
3. Subterranean Homesick Alien
4. No Surprises
5. Airbag
6. Paranoid Android
7. Electioneering
8. Lucky
9. Karma Police
10. The Tourist
11. Climbing the Walls
12. Fitter Happier
2. Exit Music
3. Subterranean Homesick Alien
4. No Surprises
5. Airbag
6. Paranoid Android
7. Electioneering
8. Lucky
9. Karma Police
10. The Tourist
11. Climbing the Walls
12. Fitter Happier
- Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:03 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Best Moderately Acclaimed Album of 2012
- Replies: 24
- Views: 16282
Re: Best Moderately Acclaimed Album of 2012
http://grooveshark.com/#!/search/John%2 ... 0reminisce
Is it too late to nominate? If not I nominate Waiting and Waiting by John Mark Nelson. I guess you can listen to it on iTunes.
Is it too late to nominate? If not I nominate Waiting and Waiting by John Mark Nelson. I guess you can listen to it on iTunes.
- Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:56 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: The Best Albums And Songs of 1999
- Replies: 64
- Views: 42877
Re: The Best Albums And Songs of 1999
Songs 1. Mint Royale- Don't Falter 2. Magnetic Fields- Sweet Lovin' Man 3. Gentle Waves- Evensong 4. The Divine Comedy- The Gin Soaked Boy(how often can you say the brand new song made for a Greatest Hits compilation is actually the best song off the album:) 5. Travis- Turn 6. Shack- Comedy 7. Aimee...
- Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:11 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: The Best Albums And Songs of 1999
- Replies: 64
- Views: 42877
Re: The Best Albums And Songs of 1999
1. Magnetic Fields- 69 Love Songs
2. Travis- The Man Who
3. Shack- H.M.S Fable
4. The Flaming Lips- The Soft Bulletin
5. Nine Inch Nails- The Fragile
6. Beck- Midnight Vultures
7. Beulah- When Your Heartstrings Break
8. Moby- Play
9. Red Hot Chili Peppers- Californication
10. Santana- Supernatural
2. Travis- The Man Who
3. Shack- H.M.S Fable
4. The Flaming Lips- The Soft Bulletin
5. Nine Inch Nails- The Fragile
6. Beck- Midnight Vultures
7. Beulah- When Your Heartstrings Break
8. Moby- Play
9. Red Hot Chili Peppers- Californication
10. Santana- Supernatural
- Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:28 pm
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: The Best Albums And Songs of 1998
- Replies: 87
- Views: 59984
Re: The Best Albums And Songs of 1998
I agree about 98 having great records. It's the year we're currently working on 1999 that gets the worst wrap of all especially the fact that their number 1 ranks by far the lowest of all the number 1 albums that came out in the 90s. We should have a poll where we rank the top 9 years from 90 to 99 ...
- Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:07 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Concerts you have coming up
- Replies: 372
- Views: 685284
Re: Concerts you have coming up
Before I got hit by a car I was planning on seeing st. Etienne but those plans may go up in smoke. Do they do their first two singles live? I know Sarah wasn't on either of them.
- Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:17 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: The Best Albums And Songs of 1998
- Replies: 87
- Views: 59984
Re: The Best Albums And Songs of 1998
1. Liz Phair- whitechocolatespaceegg 2. Pulp- This is Hardcore 3. Mercury Rev- Deserter's Songs 4. PJ Harvey- Is This Desire? 5. Billy Bragg and Wilco- Mermaid Avenue 6. Belle and Sebastian- The Boy with the Arab Strap 7. Tori Amos- From the Choirgirl Hotel 8. Garbage- Version 2.0 9. Madonna- Ray of...
- Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:00 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Albums of 2012
- Replies: 249
- Views: 179525
Re: Albums of 2012
It's very independent and unsigned. In fact I still think he's on CDbaby, home of all the unsigned artists. I go on there all the time and sometimes review albums. Most don't leave much of a lasting impression but this is by far is the best album I've heard not only on cdbaby but from the entire yea...
- Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:49 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: The Best Albums And Songs of 1997
- Replies: 74
- Views: 47117
Re: The Best Albums And Songs of 1997
1. Spiritualized- Ladies and Gents... 2. Sleater-Kinney- Dig Me Out 3. Radiohead- OK Computer 4. Kenickie- At the Club 5. Dandy Warhols- ...The Dandy Warhols Come Down 6. Robbie Williams- Life Thru a Lens 7. Mansun- Attack of the Grey Lantern 8. Gorky's Zygotic Mynci- Barafundle 9. Blur- Blur 10. Bj...
- Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:57 pm
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Tie-breaker: 1996 Songs Poll
- Replies: 10
- Views: 7372
- Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:48 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: The Best Albums And Songs of 1996
- Replies: 89
- Views: 63863
Re: The Best Albums And Songs of 1996
Albums 1. Belle & Sebastian- If You're Feeling Sinister 2. Tori Amos- Boys for Pele 3. Suede- Coming Up 4. Lush- Lovelife 5. Manic Street Preachers- Everything Must Go 6. Ocean Colour Scene- Moseley Shoals 7. Fiona Apple- Tidal 8. Belle and Sebastian- Tigermilk 9. Weezer- Pinkerton 10. The Divin...
- Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:34 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: The Best Albums And Songs of 1995
- Replies: 76
- Views: 53251
Re: The Best Albums And Songs of 1995
Great comeback year after a couple of stinkers. 1. Pulp- Different Class 2. Bjork- Post 3. Supergrass- I Should Coco 4. Oasis- WTSMG 5. Elastica-s/t 6. the Boo Radleys- Wake Up! 7. PJ Harvey-To Bring You My Love 8. Joan Osbourne -Relish 9. Alanis Morissette- Jagged Little Pill 10. Radiohead- The Ben...
- Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:52 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Top 5 of... anything !
- Replies: 53
- Views: 39122
Re: Top 5 of... anything !
Top 5 Olympic Related Songs
*The Gold Metal- The Donnas
5. Cycling is Fun- Shonen Knife
4. Weightlifting- Trashcan Sinatras
3. The Boxer- Simon & Garfunkel
2. Stars of Track & Field- Belle & Sebastian
1. Olympian- Gene
*The Gold Metal- The Donnas
5. Cycling is Fun- Shonen Knife
4. Weightlifting- Trashcan Sinatras
3. The Boxer- Simon & Garfunkel
2. Stars of Track & Field- Belle & Sebastian
1. Olympian- Gene
- Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:37 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Top 5 of... anything !
- Replies: 53
- Views: 39122
Re: Top 5 of... anything !
Top 5 bands that share the same name as another band. You know you've come across several when looking up bands on Allmusic.com
5. Heavenly
4. The Charlatans
3. The Primitives
2. REVOLVER
1. Nirvana
*Catatonia/Katatonia (left them out because of the different spelling)
5. Heavenly
4. The Charlatans
3. The Primitives
2. REVOLVER
1. Nirvana
*Catatonia/Katatonia (left them out because of the different spelling)
- Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:34 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Albums of 2012
- Replies: 249
- Views: 179525
Re: Albums of 2012
Not only did his album come out so did he LOL! Hip hop singers are tame when it comes to homophobia compared to the reggae singers. Speaking of REVOLVER, you gave me an idea for another subject to post in the TOP 5s...
- Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:30 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Top 5 of... anything !
- Replies: 53
- Views: 39122
Re: Top 5 of... anything !
well I live near Silverlake in California so I know what the look of a hipster is and I know who they consider kitsch. The old look of a hipster was pretty much the look of Badly Drawn Boy. The thick, heavy beard, shaggy hair and the wool cap. Now it's all about the animal eared hoodies which is fin...
- Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:26 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: 1994 song poll tie-breaker
- Replies: 31
- Views: 20901
Re: 1994 song poll tie-breaker
Zombie. It was bad enough they managed to beat Manic Street Preachers in the last tie breaker. Let not repeat such an abomination.
- Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:47 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: 1994 song poll tie-breaker
- Replies: 31
- Views: 20901
Re: 1994 song poll tie-breaker
Easy : Pavement -Range Life (a beautiful song) (I can't stand the way the cranberry girl sings the chorus) At least she actually SINGS!!!! I'd rather hear her scream like a banshee than sound like she's going into a comma. Not a fan of 94 but I was only thinking of voting just to keep Pavement from...
- Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:33 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Top 5 of... anything !
- Replies: 53
- Views: 39122
Re: Top 5 of... anything !
Yes you are DEFINITELY right about My Bloody Valentine. If there were a top 10 they would definitely be in it. So I don't necessary hate all hipster bands. I even like some kitsch hipster bands like the Carpenters and Neil Diamond who prefer to Neil Young another HUGE hipster name who I think makes ...
- Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:53 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Top 5 of... anything !
- Replies: 53
- Views: 39122
Re: Top 5 of... anything !
Henrik wrote:This hipster genre seems great. Any more recommendations?
Yeah we should all have a poll for who we think the top hipster bands of all time are.
- Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:09 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Top 5 of... anything !
- Replies: 53
- Views: 39122
Re: Top 5 of... anything !
Top 5 Hipster Bands/Musicians
5. Pavement
4. Joanna Newsom
3. Jeff & Tim Buckley/Nick Drake/Elliott Smith (Same Reasoning: sensitive,"soul bearing," songwriter + tragic ending=hipster following)
2. Neutral Milk Hotel
1. Tom Waits
5. Pavement
4. Joanna Newsom
3. Jeff & Tim Buckley/Nick Drake/Elliott Smith (Same Reasoning: sensitive,"soul bearing," songwriter + tragic ending=hipster following)
2. Neutral Milk Hotel
1. Tom Waits
- Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:53 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Top 5 of... anything !
- Replies: 53
- Views: 39122
Re: Top 5 of... anything !
top 5 reasons why I now HATE Female British Soul Singers (top 5 Reasons Dusty Springfield is rolling over in her grave)
5. Joss Stone
4. Duffy
3. Kate Nash
2. Lily Allen
1. Adele
5. Joss Stone
4. Duffy
3. Kate Nash
2. Lily Allen
1. Adele
- Mon May 21, 2012 5:56 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Robin Gibb
- Replies: 0
- Views: 2082
Robin Gibb
I don't know what it is but when it comes to celebrity deaths this year people in the music industry are taking the biggest hit and now we lost another legend. What a loss for the disco era this week.
- Fri May 18, 2012 6:28 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Albums of 2012
- Replies: 249
- Views: 179525
Re: Albums of 2012
[This fascination with 80's art rock needs to stop though. Every album sounds exactly the same and if you weren't a fan of the genre to begin with (like me) this year's been rough. That was even more popular back in the mid 2000s and I was never a fan of the synth at all. But I'm starting to feel th...
- Sun May 06, 2012 5:10 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: 1992 song and album poll tie-breaker
- Replies: 33
- Views: 21131
Re: 1992 song and album poll tie-breaker
Damn!!!! This is the second time this year the Manics get screwed over by an inferior, mediocre band. Last time Keane was named one of the top 15 Britpop bands over MSP.
- Thu May 03, 2012 5:14 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: 1992 song and album poll tie-breaker
- Replies: 33
- Views: 21131
Re: 1992 song and album poll tie-breaker
Beastie Boys - Check Your Head
and DEFINITELY Manic Street Preacher's Motorcycle Emptiness.
Pavement shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as Sonic Youth and the Pixies.
and DEFINITELY Manic Street Preacher's Motorcycle Emptiness.
Pavement shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as Sonic Youth and the Pixies.
- Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:21 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Forum Poll: The Best Albums and Songs of 1992
- Replies: 120
- Views: 85378
Re: Forum Poll: The Best Albums and Songs of 1992
1. Tori Amos- Little Earthquakes 2. Heavenly- Le Jardin de Heavenly 3. Ministry- Psalm 69: The Way to Succeed & the Way to Suck Eggs 4. Pale Saints- In Ribbons 5. Ride- Going Blank Again 6. L7- Bricks Are Heavy 7. The Jesus and Mary Chain- Honey's Dead 8. The Catherine Wheel- Ferment 9. Lush- Sp...
- Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:24 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: UMT 2012: Genre #30 - Dream Pop
- Replies: 28
- Views: 23773
Re: UMT 2012: Genre #30 - Dream Pop
Best Genre ever. AKA Shoegaze AKA the Capenters with a Vaccuum Cleaner. Too bad the Boo Radleys were left out of this one.
1. Cocteau Twins
2. Lush
3. Trashcan Sinatras
4. Ride
5. Guided by Voices
6. House of Love
7. Teenage Fanclub
8. Doves
9. Kitchens Of Distinction
10. the Catherine Wheel
1. Cocteau Twins
2. Lush
3. Trashcan Sinatras
4. Ride
5. Guided by Voices
6. House of Love
7. Teenage Fanclub
8. Doves
9. Kitchens Of Distinction
10. the Catherine Wheel
- Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:14 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: UMT 2012: Genre #24 - Art Rock
- Replies: 25
- Views: 21699
Re: UMT 2012: Genre #24 - Art Rock
1. Kate Bush
2. Pink Floyd
3. Tori Amos
4. the Fall
5. Roxy Music
2. Pink Floyd
3. Tori Amos
4. the Fall
5. Roxy Music
- Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:27 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: UMT 2012: Genre #20 - Britpop/Indie
- Replies: 28
- Views: 25086
Re: UMT 2012: Genre #20 - Britpop/Indie
do you mean dreampop/SHOEGAZE? Greatest genre ever. Too bad no twee :-( They didn't make my list but Ocean Colour Scene deserves better. Their acclaim diminished with the failure of Oasis to generate anything as good as their first two albums. They paved the way for retro classic rock sounding bands...
- Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:55 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Davey Jones
- Replies: 2
- Views: 3665
Davey Jones
Surprised no one has mentioned him. I guess the Monkees are too novelty for this site. My namesake Rodney Bingenheimer was his stand in and should have a Godhead tribute show for him on KROQ this Sunday/Monday morning at midnight.
- Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:37 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Forum Poll: The Best Albums and Songs of 1990
- Replies: 84
- Views: 68463
Re: Forum Poll: The Best Albums and Songs of 1990
Songs 1. Only Tongue Can Tell- Trashcan Sinatras 2. Heavenly Pop Hit- the Chills 3. Taste- Ride 4. I Kicked a Boy- The Sundays 5. I Don't Know Why I Love You- House of Love 6. Feeling- The La's 7. Iceblink Luck- The Cocteau Twins 8. Blue Flower- Mazzy Star 9. A Little Time- The Beautiful South 10. S...
- Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:34 am
- Forum: Music, Music, Music...
- Topic: Forum Poll: The Best Albums and Songs of 1990
- Replies: 84
- Views: 68463
Re: Forum Poll: The Best Albums and Songs of 1990
I'm surprised by the lack of (serious) love for Cocteau Twins. I've given Heaven or Las Vegas a couple of listens now, and I think it's absolutely brilliant. Edit: And Codeine! Frigid Stars really does sound a lot like it's 1990's Spiderland. More sad perhaps, less enthralling, but still it has a g...